Pricing

[Coug]

Originally Posted by EdVoylesHyundai

The people that are the happiest with their purchases and are the happiest customers and refer you business, etc.. are the people who pay all the money for the car. The people who are a pain to deal with, are always grumpy, won't refer you anyone and slam you on your CSI survey when you bent over backwards for them are the ones who felt it was necessary to haggle down to the last penny.

I have appreciated very much the dealer information and insight from EdVoylesHyundai on this forum relative to the Genesis. I'm not sure I agree with his implication that happy people are those that pay whatever the dealer asks for a car ("all the money"), and that those who want to negotiate the best price are grumpy, mean, and vindictive. I'm a consumer who shops for the best value for my money, and do indeed try to negotiate a favorable deal for myself on a new vehicle (and believe it or not, I'm a happy, positive, polite person!) Seeking a good deal is consumerism in a free market economy.

My view of Hyundai's approach to the Genesis is that they are trying to influence the supply/demand equation to keep the pricing up. Hyundai created alot of interest and enthusiasm (demand) by their early Superbowl ads, car show displays, and well-timed infomration releases. We hear now that the supply will be low for some time (one or two vehicles per dealer at first). I believe that the combination of early demand and low supply will keep the prices up as EdVoylesHyundai has suggested. I think for early purchases you will have to pay "all the money" for a Genesis.

Still, I think when comparing the price of this vehicle to other premium sedans, you should compare cars of similar size. If you compare the Genesis pricing to Infinity M, Lexus GS, or BMW 5 series, it still looks pretty good.

[unknown_owner]

Firstly thank you EdVoylesHyundai for that good bit of knowledge.

Originally Posted by Viking

I can see both sides of this issue. When Hyundai made the "starting price of well under $30k" comment, it was based on offering a 3.3L as the base. I am sure they had good reason to change course (and not offer the 3.3L here), but I think there is a significant psychological distinction between "well under $30k" and $33k -- especially in the minds of buyers that will be in the market for a vehicle like this (large, premium vehicle at a reasonable price). I put myself in that category.

I could be wrong but I thought the 3.3L and 3.8L were going to be only in Korea and the US was getting the 3.8L and 4.6L. I remember reading this from Hyundai itself. But a lot of websites and blogs kept saying the US would get the 3.3L, which I believed was inaccurate. Now I might be wrong on this, so I'm looking for where I read that. I also can't find anywhere where Hyundai says that the 3.3L would come to the US; again many sites speculated this to be the case, but not Hyundai. Does anyone know how much the 3.3L cost in Korea?

Another incorrect thing that many sites are posting is that the V6 model will come with the ZF Transmission, when they will come with the Aisin transmission.

[Goldenbrown9638]

In my opinion, all of these unanswered questions about pricing can be easily resolved by Hyundai. I think I signed up for Hyundai’s on-line Genesis sedan updates about three months ago. Since then, I’ve only received one update from them. Personally, I’m very disappointed in the way Hyundai has shared information with potential Genesis buyers. I would think that Hyundai would be more proactive in sharing ALL information, including base & option(s) pricing, with consumers interested in purchasing its product. Some hype and anticipation about a product is healthy, but the pace Hyundai has released information about the Genesis sedan is too slow. I was very interested in this vehicle when I saw it during the super bowl, but all the delay in receiving ACCURATE information from Hyundai is causing me to consider other alternatives…especially given the rumor that the V8 sedan won’t be available until the end of Sep 2008. If Hyundai wants to hit a home run with the Genesis sedan, they need to step up and provide information to consumers so they don’t have to second-guess everything about the vehicle. Based on EdVoylesHyundai information, the first Genesis sedans should be in Hyundai showrooms around the middle of June and I would hope Hyundai would have ALL details about the vehicles finalized by now.

[Duaine]

I to signed up for Hyundai’s on-line Genesis sedan updates and also got only one update. And if I remember right it was very little info. I agree and think that there so called "updates" were absolutely worthless as well. It's to bad they don't think of their potential customers in a more positive way.

Duaine

[gopack504]

One thing for sure is that we all crave new information, so we hope to get some on a regular basis. How often is new information going to be available on new cars or any car for that matter. Go to the MSN Auto site and that site will look the same for a couple weeks and they cover every car out there, so to expect new info on a regular basis about just one car isn't too realistic. A while back I stopped at a Hyundai dealership and started talking to a salesman and it seemed I new more about the Genesis than he did, which is because of the internet and websites like this. I think we just need to be a little more patient, and that includes me.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by unknown_owner

I could be wrong but I thought the 3.3L and 3.8L were going to be only in Korea and the US was getting the 3.8L and 4.6L.

At the January 2008 Detroit Auto Show where the production Hyundai Genesis was unveiled, Hyundai executives said the 3.3 liter engine would be available in the US.

They changed their minds since then.

[EdVoylesHyundai]

Originally Posted by Coug

I have appreciated very much the dealer information and insight from EdVoylesHyundai on this forum relative to the Genesis. I'm not sure I agree with his implication that happy people are those that pay whatever the dealer asks for a car ("all the money"), and that those who want to negotiate the best price are grumpy, mean, and vindictive. I'm a consumer who shops for the best value for my money, and do indeed try to negotiate a favorable deal for myself on a new vehicle (and believe it or not, I'm a happy, positive, polite person!) Seeking a good deal is consumerism in a free market economy.

My view of Hyundai's approach to the Genesis is that they are trying to influence the supply/demand equation to keep the pricing up. Hyundai created alot of interest and enthusiasm (demand) by their early Superbowl ads, car show displays, and well-timed infomration releases. We hear now that the supply will be low for some time (one or two vehicles per dealer at first). I believe that the combination of early demand and low supply will keep the prices up as EdVoylesHyundai has suggested. I think for early purchases you will have to pay "all the money" for a Genesis.

Still, I think when comparing the price of this vehicle to other premium sedans, you should compare cars of similar size. If you compare the Genesis pricing to Infinity M, Lexus GS, or BMW 5 series, it still looks pretty good.

Coug,
I want to make sure my statement about customers isn't twisted around. It is not that all customers who negotiate that are unhappy. I was saying that nearly all of the customers who are unhappy spent hours, days or weeks whittling dealers down to the last penny. It's a distinct difference and I want to make sure it is clear. I have no problem with healthy negotiations and a fair deal for all. In fact, many of the happy customers negotiate for a few minutes and we reach an agreement and everyone wins. But when people spend SO much time and effort to "save" $500, they are almost never happy and they still feel like they got ripped off. <shrug> But I will say that if I had to point a finger at the person who will smile the biggest and give us a good survey score and refer the most people, it would be a person who walked in, got a good demo of the car and paid MSRP. Time and time again, they are the happiest customers. I do not completely understand the dynamic, but I can attest that it does exist. Of course, it is not without exceptions, but it is pretty consistent.

[EdVoylesHyundai]

Originally Posted by Goldenbrown9638

In my opinion, all of these unanswered questions about pricing can be easily resolved by Hyundai. I think I signed up for Hyundai’s on-line Genesis sedan updates about three months ago. Since then, I’ve only received one update from them. Personally, I’m very disappointed in the way Hyundai has shared information with potential Genesis buyers. I would think that Hyundai would be more proactive in sharing ALL information, including base & option(s) pricing, with consumers interested in purchasing its product. Some hype and anticipation about a product is healthy, but the pace Hyundai has released information about the Genesis sedan is too slow. I was very interested in this vehicle when I saw it during the super bowl, but all the delay in receiving ACCURATE information from Hyundai is causing me to consider other alternatives…especially given the rumor that the V8 sedan won’t be available until the end of Sep 2008. If Hyundai wants to hit a home run with the Genesis sedan, they need to step up and provide information to consumers so they don’t have to second-guess everything about the vehicle. Based on EdVoylesHyundai information, the first Genesis sedans should be in Hyundai showrooms around the middle of June and I would hope Hyundai would have ALL details about the vehicles finalized by now.

Yeah, the Genesis updates have sucked. I signed up too, and the only update I have received was last week when they updated the Genesis flash site. I didn't get an email when they released the pricing or to announce the date when I should expect to see one at my dealer. I am with you guys on this one. So I am trying to help by getting y'all as much info as possible.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by EdVoylesHyundai

Coug,
I want to make sure my statement about customers isn't twisted around. It is not that all customers who negotiate that are unhappy. I was saying that nearly all of the customers who are unhappy spent hours, days or weeks whittling dealers down to the last penny. It's a distinct difference and I want to make sure it is clear. I have no problem with healthy negotiations and a fair deal for all. In fact, many of the happy customers negotiate for a few minutes and we reach an agreement and everyone wins. But when people spend SO much time and effort to "save" $500, they are almost never happy and they still feel like they got ripped off. <shrug> But I will say that if I had to point a finger at the person who will smile the biggest and give us a good survey score and refer the most people, it would be a person who walked in, got a good demo of the car and paid MSRP. Time and time again, they are the happiest customers. I do not completely understand the dynamic, but I can attest that it does exist. Of course, it is not without exceptions, but it is pretty consistent.

I think the problem here is that people are wired differently and have different priorities. Your unhappy bargainer wouldn't be happy if he simply didn't bargain. He'd still agonize over the price, but even more. Can he somehow alter his basic personality and become laid back? Maybe, but that's something that goes well beyond buying a car. I've had to work hard myself in this area, to not agonize over even small stuff like magazine subscription prices.

I don't know if anyone's done a study on the relationship between satisfaction and achievement. Do perpetually dissatisfied people achieve more than others, because they're never satisfied with the status quo? Maybe, maybe not.

The world probably needs both types of people.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by EdVoylesHyundai

But I will say that if I had to point a finger at the person who will smile the biggest and give us a good survey score and refer the most people, it would be a person who walked in, got a good demo of the car and paid MSRP.

Are you able to divulge about what percentage of your personal income comes from survey-related bonuses? I've heard that they can be the different between paying the mortgage and not paying it, but have never heard a figure.

[gipp]

Originally Posted by EdVoylesHyundai

This is just a personal observation. paying a dealer from 1% to 11% markup for a full walk-around presentation, vehicle wash and detail, full tank of gas, full delivery including demonstration of features and training on how to work the knobs and buttons, a contact (a real person) they can call if they have a problem, etc...PLUS the product.

I have never seen a salesman that provided a full tank of gas and a full demonstration of features and a contact for future problems. When I bought my wife a Lexus RX for her birthday I asked the salesman if he could put a ribbon on the car. I even supplied the ribbon. I told him we would be stopping at 7:30pm to pick up the car after a bithday dinner down the street. This salesman was very quick to give me his CSI card and ask for a perfect score. Well, you know what happened. When I brought my wife to the Lexus dealer for her big suprise the car was not even at the dealership, it was still at the storage lot. Not washed, not detailed and of course without the big red ribbon. The girl at the front desk felt so bad she got one of the mechanics to go get it and wash it up. The salesman comes up with a big smile and says he got the date wrong but would I be interested in an LS460h for myself so that we could drive home together in new cars.

I relay this story because I believe that we are willing to pay for premium service but have been conditioned over time not to expect it. Car buying has sadly gone from the fun, exciting family event into an ugly commodity transaction. Professional sales personel are rare. Most know nothing about the car except what they read in the brochure between customer visits. In New Jersey, it is rare to even get a sales person who will bother taking a test drive with you. They will say something like-"Well you seem to have done your research so I'll let you enjoy the test drive by yourself". Here are the keys to that blue one over there". You will note that the blue one isn't the same configuration or package level and they just shrug and say that is the one they have available. This happens at Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc... At normal dealers you are lucky to get a sales person who speaks English. The only dealers in NJ that seem to care at all are Infiniti.

So guess what happens. We research, find the car we want. Test drive it to make sure it is what we want. And then we start the buying process. We go to the internet, we get four or five price quotes over the phone and then we go the dealership closet to our house and waste 4 or 5 hours haggling to get them to match the lowest price we already have from another dealer.

We then know that we will be subjected to different looks and verbal abuses from the business manager because we don't want to buy 12 year anti gerbal protection for the interior glove box for $2342. Window stenciling is also "dealership policy" for $385 . We can order the exact same kit on the interent any day for $19.95. We indicate that we live next to the Motor Vechile department but are told that it "policy" that we can not register the vehicle ourselves. They then charge you a $225 service fee to have you drive back to thier dealership for your plates 3 weeks later. Then they tell you to a make an appointment to have the license plates "installed" by the service department. When they put the plates on the car they will not bother to clean off the adhesive left from the temporary plate and but will ask if you have reconsidered the anti hamster protection and by the way since you now have a couple hundred of miles on the car you will be a total idiot if you don't let us put the special oil conditioning additive into the crankcase for $69 to ease the break in period.

This is why we haggle and distance ourselves. We know we will be ripped off for whatever and whenever possible for several hundred if not thousands after the sale before we can escape the clutches of the delaership. We know that the second we write the check we will be disrepected, probably verbally abused and definately not valued.

I am sure there are still professional sales people and dealerships that operate with integrity in the USA. I apologise in advance to those who do not condone or practice such tactics. But the fact is majority rules and the public will do what it needs to for the protection of thier family and assets.
I have my own business and I would not survive a week if I treated my customers with the institutional fake smiles and legendary lies and promises that hallmark the auto industry and the car purchase process.

[GrandPrix08]

Well, I wouldn't say ALL salespeople does that. When I got my 08 Grand Prix, the salesperson spent an hour(well, almost), explaining about the features of the car from the dash to the trunk, and the tank was full. The car was ready and all washed up about 3 days before I made the downpayment since they drove it there from the other dealer down south, who had it. So, I wouldn't put down ALL the dealers, though there are many like that. My only gripe(though I didn't really express it to them), was that it already had 52 miles on it, for they drove it there, I expected them to transport it by the automobile carriers, but oh well.

I am currently very happy with my car and the kind of service I got. I just got a first, free oil change done, and I have no complaints with the service and the dealer.

But, I do admit, there are MORE, BAD dealers than a good ones, so you have to watch out.

[EdVoylesHyundai]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Are you able to divulge about what percentage of your personal income comes from survey-related bonuses? I've heard that they can be the different between paying the mortgage and not paying it, but have never heard a figure.

$0 (zero)

But, I am not a salesperson anymore. Every manufacturer varies in the support they give their salespeople, but Hyundai is relatively generous when compared to Toyota and Nissan (at least how they were when I sold for them about 6-7 years ago). And every dealer has a slightly different pay plan with different bonuses and such. As a salesperson here, as little as 0% to much as ~30-40% of your income can come from CSI-related bonuses. The wide variation comes from the fact that commission is paid based on gross profit, but the CSI bonus is a fixed amount per vehicle. So as the amount of commission rises, the percentage of the pay made up by the bonus declines. So yes, survey scores can make a HUGH impact on the salesperson's ability to pay the bills. If a salesperson is relying on CSI money to pay the bills, they may find themselves in trouble if they get one or two bad surveys. Currently with Hyundai, each salesperson has to maintain a certain CSI average to get paid any CSI bonuses If they fall below the required average, they do not get paid any CSI bonus until they get it back up. The store is also required to maintain a certain store average to be eligible for certain programs.

Hope that helps.

[EdVoylesHyundai]

Originally Posted by gipp

I have never seen a salesman that provided a full tank of gas and a full demonstration of features and a contact for future problems. When I bought my wife a Lexus RX for her birthday I asked the salesman if he could put a ribbon on the car. I even supplied the ribbon. I told him we would be stopping at 7:30pm to pick up the car after a bithday dinner down the street. This salesman was very quick to give me his CSI card and ask for a perfect score. Well, you know what happened. When I brought my wife to the Lexus dealer for her big suprise the car was not even at the dealership, it was still at the storage lot. Not washed, not detailed and of course without the big red ribbon. The girl at the front desk felt so bad she got one of the mechanics to go get it and wash it up. The salesman comes up with a big smile and says he got the date wrong but would I be interested in an LS460h for myself so that we could drive home together in new cars.

I relay this story because I believe that we are willing to pay for premium service but have been conditioned over time not to expect it. Car buying has sadly gone from the fun, exciting family event into an ugly commodity transaction. Professional sales personel are rare. Most know nothing about the car except what they read in the brochure between customer visits. In New Jersey, it is rare to even get a sales person who will bother taking a test drive with you. They will say something like-"Well you seem to have done your research so I'll let you enjoy the test drive by yourself". Here are the keys to that blue one over there". You will note that the blue one isn't the same configuration or package level and they just shrug and say that is the one they have available. This happens at Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc... At normal dealers you are lucky to get a sales person who speaks English. The only dealers in NJ that seem to care at all are Infiniti.

So guess what happens. We research, find the car we want. Test drive it to make sure it is what we want. And then we start the buying process. We go to the internet, we get four or five price quotes over the phone and then we go the dealership closet to our house and waste 4 or 5 hours haggling to get them to match the lowest price we already have from another dealer.

We then know that we will be subjected to different looks and verbal abuses from the business manager because we don't want to buy 12 year anti gerbal protection for the interior glove box for $2342. Window stenciling is also "dealership policy" for $385 . We can order the exact same kit on the interent any day for $19.95. We indicate that we live next to the Motor Vechile department but are told that it "policy" that we can not register the vehicle ourselves. They then charge you a $225 service fee to have you drive back to thier dealership for your plates 3 weeks later. Then they tell you to a make an appointment to have the license plates "installed" by the service department. When they put the plates on the car they will not bother to clean off the adhesive left from the temporary plate and but will ask if you have reconsidered the anti hamster protection and by the way since you now have a couple hundred of miles on the car you will be a total idiot if you don't let us put the special oil conditioning additive into the crankcase for $69 to ease the break in period.

This is why we haggle and distance ourselves. We know we will be ripped off for whatever and whenever possible for several hundred if not thousands after the sale before we can escape the clutches of the delaership. We know that the second we write the check we will be disrepected, probably verbally abused and definately not valued.

I am sure there are still professional sales people and dealerships that operate with integrity in the USA. I apologise in advance to those who do not condone or practice such tactics. But the fact is majority rules and the public will do what it needs to for the protection of thier family and assets.
I have my own business and I would not survive a week if I treated my customers with the institutional fake smiles and legendary lies and promises that hallmark the auto industry and the car purchase process.

Wow, that's terrible! I feel your pain and I am sorry that the dealer network up there has their heads so far up their...well, you know what I mean. Dealers like that suck. I understand your desire to protect your family and your wallet. It reminds me of the badger commercials for Johnson auto group. If you haven't seen them, you should (youtube). They pretty much sum up your post. It is unfortunate that these dealers are conducting business like that. They obviously have lost sight of the fact that they are in business for the customers and without the customer, there is no need for the dealer. As a business owner, you understand this concept. I hope your dealings with dealers get way better in the future. That sucks about the Lexus dealer. Sheesh. We would love to put a bow on your wife's new car!

[mkaresh]

It does, thanks.

The whole CSI system, with the requirement of perfect scores, is unreasonable. With more realistic targets, it would help. But when you expect perfect scores, you end up with salespeople explicitly asking for perfect scores. And neither the salesperson or the buyer feels comfortable with the request.