Oh, how the mighty (toyota) have fallen

[ctrcbob]

I'd argue that the Sonata is pretty close to the Camry, having narrowed the gap over the past two generations. And with the new 2011 model, if it lives up to the hype, it might be even closer.

I'm going to look at the 2011 Sonata tomorrow.

 

[akuma]

Hyundai not on the same level as Toyota? hmm... i guess that's because they are better now (and Kia too, although they have ways to go with reliability/quality). i'm talking dollar for dollar (as in pound for pound) of course. Hyundai could definitely make an $80,000 car better than the Lexus LS 460 (the Equus is only around $50-60k), but no one would buy it because of the huge gap between the perceived quality and actual quality of Hyundai cars. but Toyota doesn't have anything close to a $35,000 car as good as the Genesis. the 2011 Sonata is starting under $20k, has better fuel economy than all competitors and more power and torque per liter than any competitors besides the turbocharged Volkswagen CC. it also has arguably the best looking interior in its class.

the completely redesigned Elantra and Accent are also coming later this year and i expect them to outclass the Corolla and Yaris. not to mention the redesigned Azera, Santa Fe and Veracruz next year. yes, in two years, every one of the cars in their lineup will be among the class leaders in value, fuel economy, power, safety, technology and features and arguably design.

Toyota has brought very little new to the table in the last 10 years, just slowly improving, while Hyundai has been improving by leaps and bounds in the same period. believe me, Toyota is not the ceiling, not even close. i don't expect Hyundai to slow their rate of improvement just because they have passed Toyota.

 

[dataguy]

I'm going to look at the 2011 Sonata tomorrow.

Definitely looking forward to your report on it, Bob!

 

[YEH]

Of course this is a huge blow to Toyota, but regarding the overall product, I don't feel Hyundai is in the same league as Toyota, Hyundai's main staple is gaining, but I definitely don't feel they are same level.

Aside from the current Tuscon, Sedona, Azera and Accent - which are basically part of the "old Hyundai", Hyundai's current lineup matches up well w/ Toyota's.

Both the current Sonata and Elantra have repeatedly beat the Camry and Corolla in comparison reviews (Edmunds didn't even bother including the Camry in their last mid-sized comparison since they concluded that it would have finished dead last anyway) and even people (well, the one's who don't have blinders on) on the main Lexus forum have stated that the Sonata and Elantra have better interiors than the Camry and Corolla (Toyota's interior have gone way downhill since the mid 1990s).

Also, the Santa Fe and Veracruz match up pretty well w/ Toyota's crossover offerings and the Elantra Touring, aka the i30 wagon in Europe, has handily beaten Toyota's offering in the segment in Europe.

Not to mention that the Kia Soul is generally considered to be better than the xB and the Kia Forte/Koup better than the Corolla.

 

[jailer]

Everyone's got their opinion, and I respect that, but I still stand by, part for part, and the drive of the vehicle, Toyota is still ahead by a decent margin. I got in a new Corolla the other day, as well as an Elantra, and I definitely could tell, but maybe it's just my preferences... I dunno. I felt the Corolla was ABSOLUTELY the more solid, better built vehicle. I did it not long ago with the Camry and Sonata, and felt the same. Everything just looked and felt of better quality. That's just how I see it.

I don't think the regular Hyundai line is lame by any means, and I always defend them when my dumbass friends put them down. The new Sonata will be a big leap, I'm sure, with that killer 4 cyl, and I bet the build will be better. Remember, the Camry will be coming out soon too.

 

[scottdk]

Everyone's got their opinion, and I respect that, but I still stand by, part for part, and the drive of the vehicle, Toyota is still ahead by a decent margin. I got in a new Corolla the other day, as well as an Elantra, and I definitely could tell, but maybe it's just my preferences... I dunno. I felt the Corolla was ABSOLUTELY the more solid, better built vehicle. I did it not long ago with the Camry and Sonata, and felt the same. Everything just looked and felt of better quality. That's just how I see it.

I don't think the regular Hyundai line is lame by any means, and I always defend them when my dumbass friends put them down. The new Sonata will be a big leap, I'm sure, with that killer 4 cyl, and I bet the build will be better. Remember, the Camry will be coming out soon too.

My girlfriends parents have 2 Corolla's. I'm a former 2003 Elantra owner. They had the same year Corolla. I noticed the 1.8 in the Toyota was sloppy and very noisy compared to the Elantra. The Elantra IMO was more refined. I've watched a few reviews of both cars, and in a few reviews the Corolla was called a "cheap tin can" and was noted as expensive for what it is. The Elantra in the reviews was "quite" and "refined"

Both great cars, but after experiencing both cars, the Elantra is the winner hands down for me. But that's just my .07 cents

 

[jailer]

They had the same year Corolla. I noticed the 1.8 in the Toyota was sloppy and very noisy compared to the Elantra.D

What year Corolla? My friend has the current with several thousand miles and it is silky smooth. I drove a different current with almost no miles, and it was a little rough, like it had not been broken in.

Go drive a 2.4 xrs 5-speed, current model. You won't go back to any Elantra. Just my opinion.

 

[dataguy]

At several thousand cheaper, it might be a tougher decision between Hyundai and Toyota if all that's separating them is brand perception and incremental refinement, no?

 

[Sayantsi]

What year Corolla? ... Go drive a 2.4 xrs 5-speed, current model. You won't go back to any Elantra. Just my opinion.

Honestly, I prefer the Elantra for the driving position alone. The Corolla's steering wheel is too close to the pedals - by the time I get the seat far enough back, the steering wheel is too far away.

In general though I believe you are always better off buying a used midsize car vs a new compact car. Comfort, safety, quality of life - all much better once you get a slightly larger car.

 

[scottdk]

What year Corolla? My friend has the current with several thousand miles and it is silky smooth. I drove a different current with almost no miles, and it was a little rough, like it had not been broken in.

Go drive a 2.4 xrs 5-speed, current model. You won't go back to any Elantra. Just my opinion.

They have 2, 2003 Corolla's.

The XRS 2.4 is great.......but the price tag? I can get a fully loaded Sonata for that price with the V6 and all the goodies.

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[jailer]

They have 2, 2003 Corolla's.

The XRS 2.4 is great.......but the price tag? I can get a fully loaded Sonata for that price with the V6 and all the goodies.

I had a feeling you were talking about some old model Corolla.

Regarding the current XRS, although I would'nt compare to a v6 larger sedan with all the "goodies", there are several thousand dollars difference between the two.

 

[Par Avion]

Hyundai Kia Automotive Group will conduct a massive product quality review in light of the developments at Toyota Motor Corp.

According the group, its two carmakers Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Motors Corp. plan to make a special review on the quality of components supplied by parts makers and strengthen quality control systems.

The measures follow on the Hyundai Kia Automotive Group chairman Chung Mongkoo’s comments that emphasized the importance of safety and quality, group officials said. Chung touched on the issue at a strategy conference on Monday.

Chung also issued orders to analyze the cause of Toyota’s troubles and to closely follow the developments to prevent such a situation being repeated at Hyundai and Kia.

The quality review process will begin with parts makers producing safetyrelated components and expand to include manufacturers of other parts, with the aim of completing the process for all of Hyundai and Kia’s 500 or so suppliers within the year.For the special reviews, the carmakers will also draw up quality control standards for their overseas suppliers.

The new standards will be applied to quality reviews conducted by the parts makers, which will then be followed up with tests carried out by personnel dispatched from Hyundai and Kia.

In addition, the two carmakers are said to be planning to introduce a training program for avoiding safetyrelated problems for employees of their local and overseas operations from this week.

Aside from the new measures, the company said that it had been operating a threepart quality control system for core components including accelerator pedals and brake systems that are at the center of developments at Toyota.

The first stage will be carried out by the parts manufacturer and the second stage will be conducted by the carmakers’ research and development team and the purchasing department.

The components that have passed the first two tests are then analyzed by Hyundai Mobis Co. that assembles modules used in Hyundai and Kia vehicles.

In contrast to Hyundai Kia Automotive Group, other local carmakers say that they have no special measures triggered by Toyota’s situation.

“Since taking office, president Arcamone has focused on quality as can be seen in his visits to production sites,” a GM Daewoo Auto and Technology Co. official said.

“We have no special programs planned, but with the new president emphasizing quality, related processes will be strengthened.

An official at Renault Samsung Motors Co. also said that the company quality has always been the company’s highest priority and that the company will continue to do so.(cheesuk@heraldm.com)

*Source: heraldm.com

 

[jailer]

Toyota Recall: Scandal, Media Circus, and Stupid Drivers

How Big is This Problem?

We're no Toyota apologists, but if you look past the media circus, the numbers don't reveal a meaningful problem. Every man, woman, and child in the U.S. has approximately a one-in-8000 chance of perishing in a car accident every year. Over a decade, that's about one in 800. Given the millions of cars included in the Toyota recalls and the fewer than 20 alleged deaths over the past decade, the alleged fatality rate is about one death per 200,000 recalled Toyotas. Even if all the alleged deaths really are resultant from vehicle defects—highly unlikely—and even if all the worst things people are speculating about Toyotas are true, and you're driving one, and you aren't smart or calm enough to shift to neutral if the thing surges, you're still approximately 250 times likelier to die in one of these cars for reasons having nothing to do with unintended acceleration. So if you can muster the courage to get into a car and drive, the additional alleged risk of driving a Toyota is virtually negligible.

* Source: Car And Driver

 

[scottdk]

More issues-

US to probe Prius brakes as recall costs hit $2B (e)

The price of Toyota's defect fiasco is now US$2-billion and counting, as
the Japanese car maker faces a US government investigation of the brakes
on its prized Prius hybrid. The US National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration launched a formal investigation into the braking problems
on the 2010 Prius yesterday, and Japan's Nikkei newspaper reported that
the company is poised to recall 270,000 gas-and-electric Prius vehicles
sold in the US and Japan between May and December of last year. A Toyota
spokesman declined to comment. With Toyota's Prius braking problems, the
automaker's escalating recall crisis spread beyond the company, as at
least one other auto maker was spurred to take a closer look at its
hybrids' braking systems. Rival Ford said yesterday it will pay for a
software fix to correct braking issues on its 2010 Mercury Milan and
Ford Fusion hybrids. Ford took action after Consumer Reports said one of
its engineers ran a stop sign when the brake pedal on a Fusion hybrid
sank further than normal and warning lights lit up on the dashboard.
Ford said it has received a handful of complaints related to the
hybrids' braking systems. Toyota, which has recalled eight million cars
worldwide over sudden acceleration problems since late last year, is
facing at least a dozen lawsuits in Canada and the US. More than $23B
worth of its stock market value has been wiped out. And there's growing
concern that the company and regulators still don't have a firm grip on
why some of its vehicles may speed dangerously out of control - exposing
Toyota to untold future liabilities. The hybrid braking issues are
likely to add to the damage for Toyota, which today announced that it
has launched a probe into its luxury Lexus hybrid in Japan and the US.
Toyota said that while it has not received any complaints about the
Lexus HS250h model, it uses the same braking system as the Prius. For
the first time since its massive recall of last week, Toyota offered an
estimate of what the recalls to date will cost: $2B. That number
includes $1.1B for repairs and $770-million to $880M in lost sales. The
car maker is expecting to lose 100,000 vehicle sales because of the
recall fallout, 80,000 of them in North America. The major beneficiaries
are likely to be Honda, Ford and GM, analysts said. No decision about a
Canadian Prius recall has been made, according to officials of Transport
Canada and Toyota Canada.
(Globe and Mail, National Post, Calgary Herald 100205)

 

[Disaster]

Toyota Recall: Scandal, Media Circus, and Stupid Drivers

How Big is This Problem?

We're no Toyota apologists, but if you look past the media circus, the numbers don't reveal a meaningful problem. Every man, woman, and child in the U.S. has approximately a one-in-8000 chance of perishing in a car accident every year. Over a decade, that's about one in 800. Given the millions of cars included in the Toyota recalls and the fewer than 20 alleged deaths over the past decade, the alleged fatality rate is about one death per 200,000 recalled Toyotas. Even if all the alleged deaths really are resultant from vehicle defects—highly unlikely—and even if all the worst things people are speculating about Toyotas are true, and you're driving one, and you aren't smart or calm enough to shift to neutral if the thing surges, you're still approximately 250 times likelier to die in one of these cars for reasons having nothing to do with unintended acceleration. So if you can muster the courage to get into a car and drive, the additional alleged risk of driving a Toyota is virtually negligible.

* Source: Car And Driver

Those numbers alone would actually be pretty scary to me if it weren't for the fact that I know how to deal with a runaway vehicle. It amazes me that more people don't just step on the brake till the car stops and the the NHTSA doesn't issue a statement to that effect. Heck, the first thing they should do is require Toyota to send notices to that effect to all people who have cars and put out public announcements on TV, radio and magazines. This would probably have saved most of the lives...not to mention saving lives of people who have the same problem with other manufacturers cars.

By the way, averaging the death rate to figure out your chance of getting killed in an auto accident is generally going to yield an inaccurate number. There are a whole bunch of factors that change your chances greatly.

1. Driving experience. Years of driving.
2. Sober driving.
3. Auto safety (air bags (front and rear), antilock brakes, traction control, 5 star crash rating.)
4. Good tires inflated correctly...winter tires when driving in snow and ice.
5. Driving choices...ie choosing not to drive under certain conditions...heavy snow or fog.
6. Accident avoidance training. Similar to the #1, but some people never get this training.
7. Attentive driving...not texting...or reading.
8. Rested driving...not driving while tired.
9. Driving correctly for conditions...driving without aggression.

While you can't avoid everything, you can make a HUGE difference by being smart. Friday, a boy from our high school and his friend were killed on the road in Indiana during one of the worst snow storms of the year. They slid their Jeep into an oncoming car. At very least they were against the odds from 1, 3, 5, 6, and 9. I would not be surprised if 4 wasn't an issue as well.

Here is why our family has a much lower risk.

1. Spend a lot of time in car with kids advising them on proper driving techniques and awareness. Otherwise, they are young boys and this is the thing I am the least in control of.
2. I don't drink and drive and the kids get this lecture all the time as well as lectured never to drive with someone who has been drinking.
3. We bought modern cars with all the safety features.
4. Keep tires with good tread and proper inflation and switch to winter tires (they are on the cars now.)
5. Boys are grounded from driving in very bad weather.
6. Sent boys to Mid Ohio Defensive driving class.
7. Never do this. Boys are lectured on this as well.
8. Always make sure I'm well rested before trips. If tired, hand over driving to someone else.
9. Take a breath or laugh off other stupid drivers. Remind myself that they will probably eventually get a ticket or killed, while I will get there in one piece.

 

[SterlingDave]

Toyota Recall: Scandal, Media Circus, and Stupid Drivers

How Big is This Problem?

We're no Toyota apologists, but if you look past the media circus, the numbers don't reveal a meaningful problem. Every man, woman, and child in the U.S. has approximately a one-in-8000 chance of perishing in a car accident every year. Over a decade, that's about one in 800. Given the millions of cars included in the Toyota recalls and the fewer than 20 alleged deaths over the past decade, the alleged fatality rate is about one death per 200,000 recalled Toyotas. Even if all the alleged deaths really are resultant from vehicle defects—highly unlikely—and even if all the worst things people are speculating about Toyotas are true, and you're driving one, and you aren't smart or calm enough to shift to neutral if the thing surges, you're still approximately 250 times likelier to die in one of these cars for reasons having nothing to do with unintended acceleration. So if you can muster the courage to get into a car and drive, the additional alleged risk of driving a Toyota is virtually negligible.

* Source: Car And Driver

Jailer,

If I were in the market for a car right now, the news and my interpretation of it would keep me away from ANY Toyota product (including Lexus). Why should I pay to take a known risk to own/drive a car with accelerator AND braking problems? Negligible risk = known risk in this case. Caveat emptor indeed! Toyota is paying (and will pay lots more) dearly for this lapse in quality assurance. I'm flabbergasted that Toyota has so many critical problems over such a number of models. It seems to me that they have had more than adequate time to fix the accelerator problem(s). It's been public since October and I'd bet a bunch that Toyota knew of it long before then. In the world of business it's not how good you have been in the past, it is "what have you done for me (or to me) lately?"! I can barely conceive of the MILLIONS of cars being recalled!

It's interesting that you don't seem alarmed with Toyota's predicament. They have stopped SELLING several models of their cars. Apparently Toyota thinks that the risk is more than "negligible" even if you don't!

I notice that you don't drive a gennie, are you in the market for one of the new "Unpredictables"?

 

[mikec]

I had a much much much longer reply typed up... but I don't want to start an argument so I replaced it with this.

It takes time to sort out the root cause of a problem - just look at how long accident investigations for plane crashes take --> years. And that's with modern flight recorder data (oodles of information) and cockpit voice recorders. When car owners start having & reporting problems with a particular model it takes a while to figure out what is really happening. Is it a real defect? Is it some combination of a unique feature/quirk of the vehicle combining with how certain owners drive/operate the vehicle, etc? Is there an environmental factor - e.g. does high humidity affect the situation - just when does the problem manifest itself?

The issues become:
1) how quickly real experts (not the sensationalist media) can identify the root problem.
2) did the vehicle manufacturer know of, or at least suspect, there were issues prior to selling the vehicle? If they knew of issues but thought the risk was low or was cheaper to ignore (think the Pinto fiasco) then that's totally different - and far worse.
3) during the design and testing, were reasonable steps taken to analyze and test the design? Were normal industry practices followed? Skipping normal tests (especially for cost savings reasons) is bad news.

I know many folks want to bash Toyota as "they knew they had an unsafe design, that's why they quit selling & making them." Or it could be read as Toyota saying "we don't know what the problem is yet, but we're not going to expose any more people to the risk." If you hate/distrust them, you'll probably see it the first way; if you think Toyota is a decent/honorable company you'll probably see it the second way.

From what I've read on the Prius, the issue is how the brakes react when the vehicle hits potholes or other violent disturbances. Do car manufacturers test all vehicles this way - old style plain-brakes and hybrid systems? If so, and if Toyota skipped this test on the Prius, that's flunking question #3 above. If such tests never existed before, then Toyota's crystal ball failed to predict this issue... that's a design/testing oversight. An honest mistake? An example of not enough brainpower during the design and testing phase to make sure all "new technology" was properly tested - i.e. nobody ever thought of this particular scenario? Would anybody have ever thought to test this? Who knows. The NHTSA, Japanese government, etc. will try to answer these questions. Until then, we're just guessing. And, as before, if you hate/distrust Toyota, you'll probably lean one way; if you think they're a decent company you'll lean the other way.

The acceleration issue: what's the real root cause? It appears now it is a design issue on the piece of the throttle pedal that gives "feel" to the driver. Initially though floor mats were suspected. Toyota's reaction: tell folks to remove floor mats. That too can be interpreted two ways:
a) Toyota was saying "you stupid morons can't be trusted to properly snap the floor mats down so just take them out."
b) Toyota saying "it's possible floor mats are interfering with the pedal - we don't know yet if that's the whole problem or not - but take them out just to be on the safe side."

Toyota told owners "remove the floor mats." That ended up not being the final/correct solution - i.e. not the root cause - but if it might alleviate the problem then why not do it? Toyota got no credit for suggesting floor mats... they got crucified instead. There may in fact be two problems: the pedal issue and floor mats.

Airplane accidents often result in learning new ways things can go wrong, of combinations of things that nobody ever thought of before, etc. That information is shared in the aviation world in the name of safety: "hey everybody, here's one more thing to consider during your design and testing." An airplane crashes... some folks cry "oh my, airplane model XYZ crashed! Ground every XYZ out there!" Is that a reasonable reaction? If the initial/preliminary investigation points to the XYZ aircraft itself, then yes. If there is no evidence though of a problem with XYZ - i.e. the accident appears to be something else (pilot error, poor maintenance, freak winds, whatever) then grounding the XYZ fleet may be over-reaction and doesn't really improve safety though sometimes XYZs are grounded "just in case." Toyota stopping production & sales is "grounding the fleet" basically before the real problem was determined --> a pretty expensive move on Toyota's part, not forced on them by NHTSA or anybody else. Just in case. I give Toyota credit. Plus they've stated the pedal repair parts will be installed into owners cars first - the ones "in service" now, instead of prioritizing the inventory sitting on the dealer lots so they can start "making money" again.

For years now, when folks ask me "what kind of car should I get?" my typical answer has been "any Honda or Toyota that you like." Recently Hyundai has been added to that list. I still will recommend Toyota to my friends/family too. I've seen both Toyota and Honda "step up to the plate" regarding issues; I've seen other brands try to duck issues so I avoid them.

mike c.

 

[OBCT]

Great post, mikec. Very good points.

 

[YEH]

Toyota's reaction: tell folks to remove floor mats. That too can be interpreted two ways:
a) Toyota was saying "you stupid morons can't be trusted to properly snap the floor mats down so just take them out."
b) Toyota saying "it's possible floor mats are interfering with the pedal - we don't know yet if that's the whole problem or not - but take them out just to be on the safe side."

Toyota told owners "remove the floor mats." That ended up not being the final/correct solution - i.e. not the root cause - but if it might alleviate the problem then why not do it? Toyota got no credit for suggesting floor mats... they got crucified instead. There may in fact be two problems: the pedal issue and floor mats.

The reason why Toyota got crucified (not by all, but specifically by auto safety analysts) for the floor mat recall is b/c Toyota made it seem that such a "fix" was the solution to the acceleration problem, even tho, past evidence showed that it likely was more than that (same thing w/ the gas pedal shim fix; Toyota made it seem that the shim would solve the acceleration issue rather than one of a no. of likely causes for the unintended acceleration problem).

Factor in Toyota not being up front w/ safety issues/concerns and hiring a former NHTSA employee who basically got NHTSA to "cook the books" and limit its investigation of sudden acceleration cases to those w/in a very narrow parameter - and Toyota looks like most other mega corporations.

Federal safety investigators agreed to exclude reports of the most serious cases of alleged "runaway Toyotas" after the intervention of a former safety official hired to be a Washington, D.C. representative of Toyota, an ABC News investigation has found.

As a result, the federal investigation of Toyota's computer-controlled throttle in 2004 never examined any case in which the sudden acceleration lasted longer than a second or two, or in which the driver tried to brake, effectively ruling out all high-speed episodes.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runaw...agency-toyota-representative/story?id=9747342

The two reporters were back in December with a number of reports, including a look at how Toyota has dealt with safety problems in recent years. Among their findings:

•The automaker knew of a dangerous steering defect in vehicles including the 4Runner sport utility vehicle for years before issuing a recall in Japan in 2004. But it told regulators no recall was necessary in the U.S. despite having received dozens of complaints from drivers. Toyota said a subsequent investigation led it to order a U.S. recall in 2005.

•Toyota has paid cash settlements to people who say their vehicles have raced out of control, sometimes causing serious accidents, according to consumers and their attorneys. Other motorists who complained of acceleration problems with their vehicles have received buybacks under lemon laws.

•Although the sudden acceleration issue erupted publicly only in recent months, it has been festering for nearly a decade. A computerized search of NHTSA records by The Times has found Toyota issued eight previous recalls related to unintended acceleration since 2000, more than any other automaker.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/readers/2010/02/a-driven-pursuit-of-a-story-toyota.html

Toyota has blamed more than 2,000 reported cases of sudden acceleration in its vehicles over the last decade on floor mats and sticky gas pedals, triggering massive recalls worldwide. The automaker has insisted that it knows of no electronic defect that could cause drivers to lose control of its vehicles.

But federal safety regulators disclosed Tuesday that they had begun a "fresh review" of the electronic throttle system in Toyota and Lexus vehicles, which connect a driver's foot to the engine through sensors, computers and wires, rather than a mechanical link. Regulators are also considering civil fines against the automaker for its handling of the recall, an official said.

The action comes after a growing number of independent experts have voiced doubt about Toyota's explanation, saying it cannot account for all the reports of sudden acceleration and that part of the blame may rest with the electronic throttle system. The Times reported last fall that complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles skyrocketed with the introduction of electronic throttles.

...In a media blitz this week aimed at reassuring the public, Toyota executives have insisted that electronic problems are not behind the reports of sudden acceleration.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-congress3-2010feb03,0,7933465.story

Toyota Has Pattern of Slow Response on Safety Issues

Toyota’s recalls and disclosures in recent months are part of a lengthy pattern in which the automaker has often reacted slowly to safety concerns, in some instances making design changes without telling customers about problems with vehicles already on the road, an examination of its record shows....

And in early 1996, Toyota engineers discovered that a crucial steering mechanism could fracture on the Hilux Surf, which was sold as the 4Runner in the United States. Toyota started installing a stronger version on new models.

Yet it took Toyota eight more years to start recalling Hilux Surfs and 4Runners built before the 1996 design change, after an accident involving an out-of-control Hilux Surf prompted a police investigation. Toyota received a rebuke from the Japanese government and was ordered to overhaul its recall system.

...Years later, many consumers started seeing evidence of a more reactive and defensive approach from the company.

In 2002, for example, Toyota faced thousands of complaints from customers who said their cars’ engines could become clogged with oil sludge.

Toyota initially faulted drivers, saying the problem was a result of infrequent oil changes. It agreed to extend warranties to eight years on 3.3 million 1997-to-2002 models. Customers then complained that Toyota made it too difficult to file claims, and the company was soon defending itself from a class-action suit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/business/global/07toyota.html?scp=13&sq=toyota&st=cse

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704820904575055733096312238.html?KEYWORDS=toyota

I find this WSJ editorial a bit harsh, but still, there is some underlying truth to it.

In Japan there is a proverb, "If it stinks, put a lid on it." Alas, this seems to have been Toyota's approach to its burgeoning safety crisis, initially denying, minimizing and mitigating the problems involving brakes that don't brake and accelerators that have a mind of their own. President Akio Toyoda, grandson of the founder, was MIA for two weeks and the company has appeared less than forthcoming about critical safety issues, risking the trust of its customers world-wide.

This has been a public-relations nightmare for Toyota, as its brand name has been synonymous with quality and reliability. Crisis management does not get any more woeful than this and the cost of this bungling so far—the initial $2 billion recall and the loss of 17% of share value since Jan. 21, when the gas-pedal recall was announced—is only a down payment on the final tally. The recall will surely expand, including cars produced in Japan. Lawsuits are being filed and an expensive settlement looms. And then there are the idle factories and empty showrooms to account for.

It is not surprising that Toyota's response has been dilatory and inept, because crisis management in Japan is grossly undeveloped. Over the past two decades, I cannot think of one instance where a Japanese company has done a good job managing a crisis. The pattern is all too familiar, typically involving slow initial response, minimizing the problem, foot dragging on the product recall, poor communication with the public about the problem and too little compassion and concern for consumers adversely affected by the product. Whether it's exploding televisions, fire-prone appliances, tainted milk or false labeling, in case after case companies have shortchanged their customers by shirking responsibility until the accumulated evidence forces belated disclosure and recognition of culpability. The costs of such negligence are low in Japan where compensation for product liability claims is mostly derisory or non-existent.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704533204575047370633234414.html?KEYWORDS=japan

 

[ctrcbob]

After I retired from the Navy, I went to work for a large company as a Quality Assurance - Quality Control Technician. One thing I learned was that although we in the QA/QC world would tell the production people that a part or component was out of spec, or defective, (or imperfect, as the production people would call them), it was the production department that owned the product, and they "could" sell it anyway, overruling us. All we could do was to advise them.