Things I don't miss about ICE vehicles

[Kassey22000]

Yeah we get it Alfer, you and Ernie HATE EVs, You have more than enough portions of the ICE focused forums to post your distain. Please stay in your lane.

 

[Looney100]

Does it take some planning? Sure, but I used to plan fueling stops into my road trips anyway. The day-to-day convenience shouldn’t be understated.

This is a BIG factor with road-tripping in an EV. There are many people I know (including two in my home) for whom the need to stop at a gas station seems to come as a surprise and is somehow a stressful inconvenience. They will NEVER be able to roadtrip in an EV as it requires planning AND contingency planning.

An example from just yesterday:
I was staying at a location where I had just a 120V outlet available to me. Saturday night, I stopped at an EC station and charged to about 90% to leave space for cheap charging at the house, so I would be at 100% on departure. I was leaving early in the morning, staying at one location for ~10 hours, then continuing home. Total distance to drive was ~380 km - which would be doable if I managed my highway speeds, if it were not for the ~1000 ft elevation gain from origin to destination.
I was familiar with my location during the day and knew it had a number of 120V outlets. If I could plug in for the 10 hours, it would give me enough to continue home - sadly I could not park close enough to an available outlet, so I stopped for six minutes along the route home to charge.

Most people don't want to have to think about what impact driving speed, elevation, etc. have on their fuel consumption, and don't want to make a plan B for refueling. With an ICE, it's much easier because increased range lessens the need to stop along the way, and if refueling is needed, you're rarely far from a station. Refilling once the low fuel light comes on is an acceptable tactic in the vast majority of cases.


What does an EV driver get if they're willing to deal with the hassle of planning? In 2023, I drove ~14,000 Kms, and spent <$20 on electricity and nothing on mechanical maintenance. So far in 2024, I've done 15K kms with a $250 (CAD) fuel cost and $0 on maintenance.

 

[ideutsch]

??

Did you usually drive on near empty daily? Did you have no gas stations within 100 miles of you?

I never have to "factor" in a trip to a gas station, ever. I don't have to worry about "spending time" at gas stations.

I have gas stations minutes from me at any given moment, be it in town, or on the highways I travel. It's super convenient compared to having to find a working EV charger. It's quicker than dealing with a charger. I'm in and out of a gas station in minutes. Not 20, 30, 60 minutes. I don't worry about broken gas pumps, I don't worry about a "slow" gas pump. Ever.

I never have to "plan" a road trip around fining fuel. It's readily available 24/7.

On a side note, good luck with trade in values/resell values of an EV with even 50K miles on it. It's lifespan is most likely nearly gone and nobody wants to buy a car that could need a $20,000 battery replacement.

Case in point

I’m speaking from my experience of owning many ICE vehicles over several decades and now owning an EV. When fueling an ICE vehicle, you don’t look for the best deal/price and then go to that station? While there are many stations around, they all have different levels of convenience and economy and it’s not unheard of to pull up to a pump that is out of order or has a malfunctioning payment system.

With the EV, I can drive direct to and from work without adding a stop. It’s like fueling up at home. How can that not be seen as a convenient factor? My comment on planning was specific to road trips where it makes sense to plan fuel stops at safe and clean gas stations that line up with other travel needs such as food or a restroom. On average, it’s 15 minutes or less and I’m on my way.

I get it, you hate EVs and your agenda is clear. Did you know that you don’t have to read or reply to posts within the sub-forum dedicated to the Genesis EV? You come across as condescending and it’s not appreciated nor does it add value to the topic.

 

[Looney100]

??

Did you usually drive on near empty daily? Did you have no gas stations within 100 miles of you?

I never have to "factor" in a trip to a gas station, ever. I don't have to worry about "spending time" at gas stations.

I have gas stations minutes from me at any given moment, be it in town, or on the highways I travel. It's super convenient compared to having to find a working EV charger. It's quicker than dealing with a charger. I'm in and out of a gas station in minutes. Not 20, 30, 60 minutes. I don't worry about broken gas pumps, I don't worry about a "slow" gas pump. Ever.

I never have to "plan" a road trip around fining fuel. It's readily available 24/7.

On a side note, good luck with trade in values/resell values of an EV with even 50K miles on it. It's lifespan is most likely nearly gone and nobody wants to buy a car that could need a $20,000 battery replacement.

1. As I've just stated, the convenience of abundant fueling is a clear and substantial advantage if one is road-tripping, but that is not what drivers do most days. Something like 90% of trips are <40 miles, so the inconvenience of charging isn't something an EV owner has to regularly deal with.
2. One's loss is another's gain. Accelerated depreciation would be an advantage for someone on the resale market. Resale prices speak more to the general perception and appeal of EVs, rather than their underlying performance/suitability.
3. If it wasn't previously, it is now abundantly clear that your intent is not to facilitate any reasonable discussion of EVs. I've already debunked a previous post you made about this silly '$20K battery replacement' nonsense, yet you still continue to repeat it. You either care not to listen to information that is contrary to your position, or choose to knowingly repeat falsehoods in the hopes of fooling others.

As I've stated before, those in this forum have experienced both EVs and ICEs at length, and have formed their opinions based on real, informed experience. We are well aware of what it is like to live with both EVs and ICEs, and you come across as a fool trying to gaslight people here. Your posts are largely either downsides to EVs that we're well aware of (and most of us are accommodating just fine), or nonsense that we know through experience is simply untrue.

 

[Sampras]

??

Did you usually drive on near empty daily? Did you have no gas stations within 100 miles of you?

I never have to "factor" in a trip to a gas station, ever. I don't have to worry about "spending time" at gas stations.

I have gas stations minutes from me at any given moment, be it in town, or on the highways I travel. It's super convenient compared to having to find a working EV charger. It's quicker than dealing with a charger. I'm in and out of a gas station in minutes. Not 20, 30, 60 minutes. I don't worry about broken gas pumps, I don't worry about a "slow" gas pump. Ever.

I never have to "plan" a road trip around fining fuel. It's readily available 24/7.

On a side note, good luck with trade in values/resell values of an EV with even 50K miles on it. It's lifespan is most likely nearly gone and nobody wants to buy a car that could need a $20,000 battery replacement.

Case in point

LOL, your video shows a guy who likes his EV, says ICE cars are similarly unreliable, and made money selling it...

Here's another video for you:

 

[joegr]

I’m speaking from my experience of owning many ICE vehicles over several decades and now owning an EV. When fueling an ICE vehicle, you don’t look for the best deal/price and then go to that station? While there are many stations around, they all have different levels of convenience and economy and it’s not unheard of to pull up to a pump that is out of order or has a malfunctioning payment system.

With the EV, I can drive direct to and from work without adding a stop. It’s like fueling up at home. How can that not be seen as a convenient factor? My comment on planning was specific to road trips where it makes sense to plan fuel stops at safe and clean gas stations that line up with other travel needs such as food or a restroom. On average, it’s 15 minutes or less and I’m on my way.

I get it, you hate EVs and your agenda is clear. Did you know that you don’t have to read or reply to posts within the sub-forum dedicated to the Genesis EV? You come across as condescending and it’s not appreciated nor does it add value to the topic.

EVs do not currently fit my needs, but I in no way hate them. I only want to reply that the argument that fueling an ICE vehicle is somehow difficult is really ridiculous. Why not stick to reasonable pros and cons?

No, I don't waste time on looking for the best possible gas price. They are all close to the same here.
No, one out of order pump is not unheard of. A whole gas station down is not at all common. A gas station that does not have one or two next to it or across the road is unheard of. No part of my daily commute or any trip planning has every involved a gas station.

For my normal commute, plus weekly grocery run, I have to fill up about every other week. It's hard for me to imagine that not having to do that would be any real impact on my life.

Again, I am not anti-EV at all. It's just that the gas station argument seems pretty dishonest.

 

[Alfer]

EVs do not currently fit my needs, but I in no way hate them. I only want to reply that the argument that fueling an ICE vehicle is somehow difficult is really ridiculous. Why not stick to reasonable pros and cons?

No, I don't waste time on looking for the best possible gas price. They are all close to the same here.
No, one out of order pump is not unheard of. A whole gas station down is not at all common. A gas station that does not have one or two next to it or across the road is unheard of. No part of my daily commute or any trip planning has every involved a gas station.

For my normal commute, plus weekly grocery run, I have to fill up about every other week. It's hard for me to imagine that not having to do that would be any real impact on my life.

Again, I am not anti-EV at all. It's just that the gas station argument seems pretty dishonest.

This

 

[ideutsch]

EVs do not currently fit my needs, but I in no way hate them. I only want to reply that the argument that fueling an ICE vehicle is somehow difficult is really ridiculous. Why not stick to reasonable pros and cons?

No, I don't waste time on looking for the best possible gas price. They are all close to the same here.
No, one out of order pump is not unheard of. A whole gas station down is not at all common. A gas station that does not have one or two next to it or across the road is unheard of. No part of my daily commute or any trip planning has every involved a gas station.

For my normal commute, plus weekly grocery run, I have to fill up about every other week. It's hard for me to imagine that not having to do that would be any real impact on my life.

Again, I am not anti-EV at all. It's just that the gas station argument seems pretty dishonest.

It’s not a dishonest argument.

If we’re discussing how public charging an EV can be inconvenient compared to refueling an ICE vehicle on a road trip, it’s fair to also mention the upside of an EV is charging at home instead of going to a gas station. This convenience wasn’t factored into my purchasing decision but instead realized after months of ownership.

 

[BearDenBob]

I charge at home, and use my EV almost exclusively for day-to-day driving, although just for fun I've done longer road trips. The comfort, tech, and refinement of an EV (in my case, currently driving a GV60) on a long trip more than make up for the inconvenience of charging, but that's just me. If you don't have ready access to charging from home, I could see that being a deal breaker. I don't miss having eliminated gas stations almost completely from my life, given that I always start my day with a full tank and use an ICE car when needed. Obviously, those who do longer road tripping on a routine basis will have a different experience if they rely solely on an EV and could possibly tip the scales. And don't forget that many people have more than one vehicle available to them. My point is that there is no "absolute" right or wrong answer - they work great for some, given their lifestyle/situation/financial means, and perhaps not so much for others.

 

[EdP]

It’s not a dishonest argument.

If we’re discussing how public charging an EV can be inconvenient compared to refueling an ICE vehicle on a road trip, it’s fair to also mention the upside of an EV is charging at home instead of going to a gas station. This convenience wasn’t factored into my purchasing decision but instead realized after months of ownership.

When you buy an EV, you should be aware of what you have to do. None of us remember what it was like driving an automobile before gas stations existed. You had to stop at hardware stores and drug stores for ethanol. Like those people EV buyers today are the pioneers that help get the infrastructure built.

I mentioned this before. The Wright brothers wasted their time inventing the airplane when no airports existed. It would never become popular.

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[Looney100]

Again, I am not anti-EV at all. It's just that the gas station argument seems pretty dishonest.

I disagree. It was made as a contrast to the prior 'wasting time charging' argument. It is completely fair to make a comparison of time spent refueling each vehicle.
I live with two individuals who seem to think it's a substantial chore. I don't agree with them, but that is how they feel.

Also, EV charging infrastructure reliability is atrocious. There is no denying that. There would be public inquiries if gas station reliability was at DCF levels.

 

[ideutsch]

When you buy an EV, you should be aware of what you have to do. None of us remember what it was like driving an automobile before gas stations existed. You had to stop at hardware stores and drug stores for ethanol. Like those people EV buyers today are the pioneers that help get the infrastructure built.

I mentioned this before. The Wright brothers wasted their time inventing the airplane when no airports existed. It would never become popular.

The intent of my last sentence wasn’t that I wasn’t aware of charging infrastructure or requirements, but that I didn’t realize how much I would appreciate the convenience of charging the vehicle at home.

 

[EdP]

T

The intent of my last sentence wasn’t that I wasn’t aware of charging infrastructure or requirements, but that I didn’t realize how much I would appreciate the convenience of charging the vehicle at home.

Understood. You are fortunate to be able to do so. I've lived in places where you never knew where you[d be able to park and no garage.

 

[steveinarizona]

Summing up what I have been seeing and adding/subtracting to the thread getting electrons on the road is more challenging than getting gasoline on the same trip viewed only in terms of adding the fuel or electrons on the road. Factoring in other issues, like charging at home, many in this thread think that the time and difficulty of charging on road trips is equal to getting gasoline; one does not and another sort of agrees but thinks that it is disingenuous to assert, at least initially, that getting electrons is no more difficult or trying than getting gasoline.

PS You can tell from my post that I am in the US ("gasoline") and from Looney100 that he is in Canada ("public inquiries"). It is only sort of the same language.

 

[BearDenBob]

When you buy an EV, you should be aware of what you have to do. None of us remember what it was like driving an automobile before gas stations existed. You had to stop at hardware stores and drug stores for ethanol. Like those people EV buyers today are the pioneers that help get the infrastructure built.

I mentioned this before. The Wright brothers wasted their time inventing the airplane when no airports existed. It would never become popular.

This is always a good point. It's forever been that way with science and tech especially. Early adopters are also the ones that help to bankroll and flesh out things for the rest of us. Sometimes it fails, other times it's hugely successful but without these people, attempts at commercializing new tech would be DOA and we'd never progress.

(edited for clarity)

 

[Husky]

Living in a somewhat rural part of Southern NH, I will say that having to fill up my ICE vehicles can be a time consuming nuisance, because there are no gas stations in our town. The nearest gas station is about 10 miles to the East, with another one 10 miles to the South. (When I had my old muscle car, which got about 12mpg, I used to joke that it took two gallons of gas to put in sixteen.)
If I'm going to drive past, or close to, one of those stations that's great. But if my travel plans are to go North or West, I have to drive considerably farther to find one, or go considerably out of my way to get to one.
Mind you, this is in southern NH (the more built-up part of the state) - I'm not talking about a really remote area in the northern White Mountains.
So for us, being able to charge our EV at home has really made life a bit easier and much more convenient, with less time spent "going to get gas first". (Yes, I realize that not everyone can charge at home.)
Also, my G70 typically only gets about 250 miles on a tank before I feel I should fill it (about 1/8 tank left). This isn't much better than 80% of the range on my EV6. Also, we're among the 90% who do most of their driving locally. In the past seven months of EV ownership (and 8500 miles), we've only had to use a public charger four times, for two four hour trips. (And those chargers worked fine.)

 

[steveinarizona]

Living in a somewhat rural part of Southern NH, I will say that having to fill up my ICE vehicles can be a time consuming nuisance, because there are no gas stations in our town. The nearest gas station is about 10 miles to the East, with another one 10 miles to the South. (When I had my old muscle car, which got about 12mpg, I used to joke that it took two gallons of gas to put in sixteen.)
If I'm going to drive past, or close to, one of those stations that's great. But if my travel plans are to go North or West, I have to drive considerably farther to find one, or go considerably out of my way to get to one.
Mind you, this is in southern NH (the more built-up part of the state) - I'm not talking about a really remote area in the northern White Mountains.
So for us, being able to charge our EV at home has really made life a bit easier and much more convenient, with less time spent "going to get gas first". (Yes, I realize that not everyone can charge at home.)
Also, my G70 typically only gets about 250 miles on a tank before I feel I should fill it (about 1/8 tank left). This isn't much better than 80% of the range on my EV6. Also, we're among the 90% who do most of their driving locally. In the past seven months of EV ownership (and 8500 miles), we've only had to use a public charger four times, for two four hour trips. (And those chargers worked fine.)

I agree. In a year and a half, and 20K miles on my GV60P, I have not had to use a public charger at all.

 

[gvjim]

Gee, I didn’t mean to rain on your parade.

Of course you did. Now you're gaslighting us.

I owned ICE cars for 48 years. I've owned a GV60 for 5 months and have driven it 7,000 miles, including several multi-day road trips. When I'm not on a road trip I charge at home. So far on road trips I've had no problem finding working fast chargers, like others have mentioned, I've never had a stop of more than 18 minutes.

In the past I've kept my cars for over a decade, so I'm not too concerned about resale value.

I joined this forum so that I could interact with other GV60 owners about there actual experiences, and it's been great. If I wanted to hear from uniformed ICE bigots I can get plenty of that on X and Quora. I promise I won't go over to ICE forums and make fun of you, I wish you would extend us the same courtesy.

 

[PMCErnie]

Of course you did. Now you're gaslighting us.

I owned ICE cars for 48 years. I've owned a GV60 for 5 months and have driven it 7,000 miles, including several multi-day road trips. When I'm not on a road trip I charge at home. So far on road trips I've had no problem finding working fast chargers, like others have mentioned, I've never had a stop of more than 18 minutes.

In the past I've kept my cars for over a decade, so I'm not too concerned about resale value.

I joined this forum so that I could interact with other GV60 owners about there actual experiences, and it's been great. If I wanted to hear from uniformed ICE bigots I can get plenty of that on X and Quora. I promise I won't go over to ICE forums and make fun of you, I wish you would extend us the same courtesy.

We are all Genesis fans here. We all have interest and access to all forums here. We all share info with other members here. Enjoy your vehicle and stop calling people names.

I’m intrigued to learn that one person in this group has no concern about the value of his/her vehicle. You are a rare owner indeed. I envy you. Believe me, I was shocked to read the Forbes article that I posted above.

 

[PMCErnie]

I agree. In a year and a half, and 20K miles on my GV60P, I have not had to use a public charger at all.

Yes, that’s because you rent a car to go out of town.