Hesitation/sputtering: need diagnosis help

[incontrovertible]

On my third visit to the dealer, they finally got approval from some tech person at Hyundai and replaced the throttle position sensor. I haven't had any hesitation/sputtering problems since, but it's only been a few days. I've got my fingers crossed that this has solved the problem.

 

[ilovemygenesis]

Have you guys noticed any reduced MPG due to this issue, i'm having similar issues and i feel i'm doing less MPG then before i noticed the problem.

 

[thom000001]

At highway speeds I didn't loose much mpg if any....but lower speeds it dropped several mpg....I'll be in situations where I am cruising at 40mph and it hesitates, mileage fell off a lot in those situations.

2nd dealer has had mine 2 days now.....

3 issues i reported -

1: this hesitation
2: rear center console heat not working (only blows ice cold air....there is a TSB on this I know, and told them that)
3: driver side rear door tweater occasionally going out (17 speaker sys).

Don't know which is giving them trouble, but they are contacting tech line I guess.

Tom

Have you guys noticed any reduced MPG due to this issue, i'm having similar issues and i feel i'm doing less MPG then before i noticed the problem.

 

[thom000001]

SOOOOOO....
after 3 days I pick up my Gene. The service manager says that the stereo was the problem. And they replaced the head unit/stereo. Prior to doing that they could not communicate with the ECU. Afterward they could......Big question is does the ECU share the same BUS communication with the stereo??? Only think a ground short could cause that issue and then there'd be lots of other wierdness.

So what did this get me....well....
The stereo is DEFINATELY different. Now I seem to have the selection to adjust the ride height and suspension (of course I can't actually do it, cause the 09 Gene v6 doesn't have this ability), and now there are 45 steps in the volume instead of 35. AND I cannot put the stereo in "surround" mode on XM (just get no sound), and the sound is way worse than it was (much "dead'er" sound no matter how you adjust it around) and it doesn't go near as loud as before. I can actually put it at max volume (45) and still communicate with my wife....whereas at 30 before (on a 35 max volume) our ears were bleeding in crystal clear music.

AND....da da da daaaaaaaa......after 2 days of driving, the spudering/hesitation is coming back. I'm guessing they reflashed the ECU as standard precaution and its been just long enough for it to get back to the hesitating.....although now its not doing it at coast or slightly off throttle, now its doing it when slightly ON throttle (and already at speed).......so still seems like the TPS to me....and I told them this to start.....

AAAHHHHH

How is EVERY dealer no matter the manufacturer exactly the same? Do they send them to a school to learn this crap or what?

Tom

At highway speeds I didn't loose much mpg if any....but lower speeds it dropped several mpg....I'll be in situations where I am cruising at 40mph and it hesitates, mileage fell off a lot in those situations.

2nd dealer has had mine 2 days now.....

3 issues i reported -

1: this hesitation
2: rear center console heat not working (only blows ice cold air....there is a TSB on this I know, and told them that)
3: driver side rear door tweater occasionally going out (17 speaker sys).

Don't know which is giving them trouble, but they are contacting tech line I guess.

Tom

 

[thom000001]

Problem STILL exists, and now new stereo doesn't work right....I love dealerships!

Back to dealer tomorrow.....

Tom

 

[thom000001]

FYI - looks like they got my issue fixed...turns out there IS a TSB for the throttle body!

tom

 

[dmorrison6]

Love my 09 Genny other that this issue. When driving long distances using cruise control the issue of the "braking and accelerating" occurs. Never seems to happen until at least 2 hours into the trip. Could this be a TPS issue or am I looking at some other cause. Other than this, Love my Genny- and looks and questions I get as I drive this car. Thanks.

 

[crhbobby]

Of the people where who have this braking sensation when driving....(mine does it with cruise on or off - but I think it is easier to feel it with it on that way you know it is not you doing it in advertently with the accelerator)

Who has RPM fluctuation on start up also? Mine revs up and down from 1500..to 2000...then goes back down to 1500...and then the jumps get smaller and smaller. This only happens on a cold engine.

I just looked at the TSBs...and 10-FL-010 says to replace the TPS and update ECM if this happens.

At my next oil change I am going to bring this TSB in. I am hoping that if I get the TPS replaced - maybe this will solve the problem I am having.

This problem is not bad when isolated...but when you start to feel for it - it drives you nuts. Usually it is mild...sometimes it will get a full studder where the car shakes slightly.

The RPM fluctation on start up is a lot easier to prove to the dealer. I am sure the service manager will roll their eyes if I came in and said lets go for a drive so you can "feel" this problem. I am hoping the two problems are linked. Tge RPM fluctation does go away after the engine is warm.

Bob

 

[ShoNuff]

Of the people where who have this braking sensation when driving....(mine does it with cruise on or off - but I think it is easier to feel it with it on that way you know it is not you doing it in advertently with the accelerator)

Who has RPM fluctuation on start up also? Mine revs up and down from 1500..to 2000...then goes back down to 1500...and then the jumps get smaller and smaller. This only happens on a cold engine.

I just looked at the TSBs...and 10-FL-010 says to replace the TPS and update ECM if this happens.

At my next oil change I am going to bring this TSB in. I am hoping that if I get the TPS replaced - maybe this will solve the problem I am having.

This problem is not bad when isolated...but when you start to feel for it - it drives you nuts. Usually it is mild...sometimes it will get a full studder where the car shakes slightly.

The RPM fluctation on start up is a lot easier to prove to the dealer. I am sure the service manager will roll their eyes if I came in and said lets go for a drive so you can "feel" this problem. I am hoping the two problems are linked. Tge RPM fluctation does go away after the engine is warm.

Bob

Sounds like your car definitely has the TPS issue. I would arrange to drop it off overnight so that the technician can start it cold in the morning and see the start-up behavior for himself/herself. Good luck.

 

[thom000001]

Mine definately had the cold start idle bounce (as I call it), and on the hesitation when driving...it was most noticeable at highway speeds (like 65-75mph...70mph was a nightmare)....and it slowly started and progressively got worse and worse. I'm guessing the ECU "learned" some of the issue as time went on and just lost the ability to compensate.

I also noticed that when sitting at a red-light, sometimes, if I wasn't full on the brake (ya know my foot was just on brake enough for car not to roll), the idle would jump to like 925rpm and start pushing through the brakes.

Ultimately it took some work getting the dealer on-board with finding the issue. The original service writer was near useless. After a week of "investigating", 2 times, I spoke with the service manager and that's when action finally started to happen. And then things were great. I even directed her to this site and this thread to see it is a issue. They had a technician take my car home overnight (happened to be a weekend). When he got on the highway he found issue immediately. And it was back to me fixed in another day after finding TSB and ordering part.
I'm glad its fixed but bothered at same time. I come from a car background. Managed race-teams and raced myself. Been working on cars most of my life. Had one of the most powerful VQ motors (still...thats for the 350z/G35, 1000hp ain't too bad), And when my description of the issue EXACTLY matched what the tech found, how did they not find the TSB based on my description. We would have been done in 1 day, not 2.5 weeks........eh, dealerships. Just glad its fixed.

Tom

Of the people where who have this braking sensation when driving....(mine does it with cruise on or off - but I think it is easier to feel it with it on that way you know it is not you doing it in advertently with the accelerator)

Who has RPM fluctuation on start up also? Mine revs up and down from 1500..to 2000...then goes back down to 1500...and then the jumps get smaller and smaller. This only happens on a cold engine.

I just looked at the TSBs...and 10-FL-010 says to replace the TPS and update ECM if this happens.

At my next oil change I am going to bring this TSB in. I am hoping that if I get the TPS replaced - maybe this will solve the problem I am having.

This problem is not bad when isolated...but when you start to feel for it - it drives you nuts. Usually it is mild...sometimes it will get a full studder where the car shakes slightly.

The RPM fluctation on start up is a lot easier to prove to the dealer. I am sure the service manager will roll their eyes if I came in and said lets go for a drive so you can "feel" this problem. I am hoping the two problems are linked. Tge RPM fluctation does go away after the engine is warm.

Bob

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[ShoNuff]

Sadly, I think the fine art of diagnosis is fast becoming a lost one. Too many technicians these days seem to be utterly stymied if there isn't a script to follow in figuring out a problem.

 

[thom000001]

I completely agree.

Everytime I called (because my first service write never called me), he would just say "we are talking to tech line, and they say..."

I kept asking, so what exactly are you doing, pulling logs and sending them? He thought the stereo was my issue at first....I said, "so you think that the stereo, built by lexicon, communicates on the same BUS as the ECU?".....after the silence I said "yes I know cars AND computers".

And amazingly it was old school, drive the car and duplicate the issue, that solved it!!!!

Tom

Sadly, I think the fine art of diagnosis is fast becoming a lost one. Too many technicians these days seem to be utterly stymied if there isn't a script to follow in figuring out a problem.

 

[crhbobby]

I finally went to the dealer with my erratic idle on a cold start up. I gave them a copy of the TSB for the TPS.

All they did was reprogram my ECU. From the sound of it, this is what they did with Tom above.

My erratic idle stopped...and in the past few days - no braking sensation any longer. Based on Toms comments, it sounds like my problem may come back.

My invoice says the "Cause" was Erratic Processor Operation. It also says under the labor section, "Run Scan Test, Found Code, Upgrade ECU.

Then it says 39110RQ0 Module Assy-Engage Control Add GDS Opeartion

Time will tell if this is a long term fix.


Bob

 

[ImInPA]

Unfortunately, Service Departments at Automotive dealerships have become profit centers. "Service" is a secondary proviso. If there is a bulletin, or an absolutely obvious fix, you are good. If it requires dignosis (which is time) good luck.

 

[crhbobby]

I recently reviewed a loan for a struggling car dealership. (I am a credit union regulator.) It shocked me how much the service department makes in comparison to the car sales. This dealer in particular was having cash flow problems, and could not afford to keep many new models on the lot - so they had little cash flow from sales. The service department kept the place afloat.

Bob

 

[dmorrison6]

FYI - looks like they got my issue fixed...turns out there IS a TSB for the throttle body!

tom

Where can I get a copy of TSB for this issue to take to dealer with me?

 

[thom000001]

Bob, First 2 times they just reflashed the ECU. 2nd dealer said they couldn't even communicate with it via their computer at first....interesting huh....hope you don't have to go back.

I finally went to the dealer with my erratic idle on a cold start up. I gave them a copy of the TSB for the TPS.

All they did was reprogram my ECU. From the sound of it, this is what they did with Tom above.

My erratic idle stopped...and in the past few days - no braking sensation any longer. Based on Toms comments, it sounds like my problem may come back.

My invoice says the "Cause" was Erratic Processor Operation. It also says under the labor section, "Run Scan Test, Found Code, Upgrade ECU.

Then it says 39110RQ0 Module Assy-Engage Control Add GDS Opeartion

Time will tell if this is a long term fix.


Bob

Let me see what I can find on it.

Where can I get a copy of TSB for this issue to take to dealer with me?

Tom

 

[crhbobby]

Go to hmaservice.com and register for free. This gives you access to the TSBs on the same site that the dealers have access to. I am certain the dealers have access to more info than we do, but this is where I got the TSB.

I even printed it out for them when I went to the dealer.

So far - my car is not having problems still. I still am not sure how the "software" would allow it to do this to begin with. They almost made it sound like mine corrupted or something. I don't know. I don't think the dealer knows either.

I got to sit in the Equus again while at the dealer I like it...but don't like it enough to make a $1000 a month car payment. I owe 20K on mine Genie...and that is probably all I would get out of it. I hope maybe someday I could find a lightly used Equus. I am still fairly happy with the Genie.

 

[dmorrison6]

Back from the dealer and car is running smooth. I took copies of comments from the forum and TSB number. Intially they indicated that documenation was not needed but later conceded that it helped to solve issue. Replaced TPS Sensor and ECU Update.Thank you all

 

[crhbobby]

Glad we can help! Sounds like you have a good dealer. Mine stops listening when I say anything about a forum... Just think how long dealerships could BS their way through explanations....but then when people can share their experiences on a forum - we are all much more informed.