6/30 wall street journal artice

[sandy]

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2...move-into-the-luxury-market/?KEYWORDS=hyundai

 

[sandy]

and here's another one.....

.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303627104576413971267185128.html?KEYWORDS=hyundai

 

[Glashub]

I would say Infiniti has done a good job of creating a premium brand. It scares me when the say the Geneis is what it is....a Hyundai.

 

[STREETS]

Don't be scared. As the articles above state loud and clear, today's Hyundai is a for cry from even 5 years ago when all it had going for them was cheap and a great warranty.
Now Hyundai has become the threat and benchmark of all others in every single car class segment-
SubCompact- the new '12 Accent
Compact- the new '12 Elantra
MidSize- class leading Sonata (4 trim levels including Hybrid)
Full Size- awaiting another knockout- '13 or '14 Azera
Sport Coupe- Genesis Coupe
Entry Lux- Genesis Sedan
Hi End Lux- EQUUS

more to come- Nothing to fear- Hyundai is a Harvard study in how to progress, get results fast and become market threat and leader with a fast blow to the competitions chin.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

I would say Infiniti has done a good job of creating a premium brand. It scares me when the say the Geneis is what it is....a Hyundai.

We're in MY 4 of the Genesis, and MY 1 of the Equus. At this point I think if someone is concerned about the badge, it's their problem and not Hyundai's.

 

[balazsbb]

I would say Infiniti has done a good job of creating a premium brand. It scares me when the say the Geneis is what it is....a Hyundai.

I wouldn't worry... Mercedes makes everything from Luxury Barges like the S Class to small cars the A and B class as well as Semi trucks, slight smaller than semi trucks lol... vans and other not so luxurious equipment.

 

[acoga]

more to come- Nothing to fear- Hyundai is a Harvard study in how to progress, get results fast and become market threat and leader with a fast blow to the competitions chin.

I agree, but what many people don't realize is that automobile brand perceptions are slow to change. No one complained about the quality of the bad old Hyundais until they'd had them a few years. Similarly, people don't complain about the reliability issues and repair costs of brand new German cars. It takes years for those problems to become apparent.

Look how long its taking Ford and GM to change public perception about the quality of their cars. Sure, car guys who study this stuff are aware of it, but for the average person it's a very slow process.

A lot of people don't remember when Toyotas and Hondas were considered jokes, back in the 80s. They just kept putting out excellent product and after a while people realized that the cars were more reliable and a better value than the American brands.

If Hyundai doesn't stumble, I fully expect they'll have an excellent reputation in 5 to 10 years. But for now, their new cars are overshadowed by their older cars that are still on the road but aren't nearly the same quality.

 

[tonygxp]

I wouldn't worry... Mercedes makes everything from Luxury Barges like the S Class to small cars the A and B class as well as Semi trucks, slight smaller than semi trucks lol... vans and other not so luxurious equipment.

you nailed it. i don't like the flying "H" because it screams CHEAP. it will be a stigma with our generation and probably half way into the next. The late 80's and all of the 90's hurt the hyundai brand big time. big difference between the "70's 1500cc Honda's reliability and the aforementioned years with hyundai lol... but they will get there. my first hyundai was a '00 elantra, my first new car at age 27. i bought it because i just bought a house and i wanted a new car so it was that and only that. it was ok, but left alot to be desired. my next Hyundai was an '03 Sonata, much better car but still left me wanting something better. as i climbed the economic ladder i found myself back to where my heart was, at GM. i bought 8 new GM vehicles from all brands except buick and saturn, Cadillac blowing the others away but you pay, big money. I took a chance with the genesis because i liked the idea of buying something that "felt" like a high end luxury car without the bill. but if we were all given a choice of "Genesis" being a stand alone brand, i don't think you would find one owner here that would want otherwise. that says something you know? i could afford double this car as i only have one car payment now, i used to have two totaling more than a grand. but then i got smart and lost some of that monthly tab, i don't think i'll ever go back there again as i finally learned well into my late 30's what a waist of money cars really are lol..

i almost forgot, i also owned a used '90(?) sonata back in 95, what a piece of junk.. sunroof leaked and the timing belt snapped at 55k miles, valve stem seals, etc. junk.

 

[NYCGPS]

This is what happened a few days ago, when I first told my father that "I want a Genesis"

F = Father
M = Me

M : I want to get a Genesis
F : what's that
M : Well, it's a somewhat upscale car
F : I never heard of it. who made it
M : Hyundai, you know, Koreans
F : Are you out of your mind? they make garbage
M : Yea I know, they were making garbage, but that's before 2004. Since then they have been working real hard and their quality is really good with longest warranty in the industry
F : Their cars are garbage
M : Why don't you see for yourself first?
F : not interested
M : Why not? It's not a bad car, not like you have anything to do right now
F : You should get a Lexus
M : No, I test drove their ES, it's boring as f**K, I almost felt asleep driving it. No feedback at all from the steering wheel. the cabin is so boring. Not like the Genesis got tons of feedback, but at least it drives better than a freaking BMW/Mercedes/Lexus
F : Lexus has better quality, they have the reputation for a reason
M : I know that, but it's not something for me, I want something fun to drive, that's why I have so many Mazdas (It's really more fun to drive, YMMV), and now I want something a bit comfy while still fun to drive. Mazda6 does not offer enough that's why I looked elsewhere. and Genesis seems fine to me, I even test drove it, it's not as agile and fun as driving Mazdas, but it's good enough
F: It's still garbage, it will look garbage and you will have 1 zillion problems in a few years
M : Remember I told u it has 100K powertrain warranty? even basic warranty is longer than Lexus.
F: Still garbage. I still think you should get a Lexus.
M : Again, why don't you see for yourself ?


So I pull my father to a Hyundai dealership to see a Genesis Black on Black 4.8

F : See? the quality is not as good as Lexus. Look at the ES, it's much better than this "crap"(he did call it crap)
M : Well of course, consider a Lexus cost so much more ? but the most important thing is, it's so boring to drive a Lexus it puts me to sleep.
Salesman : Here is a 2012 just arrived, I can put you guys and take it out for a spin (I like this salesman, too bad they won't sell me the car at the price I want)

"Test driving in progress, while in the car ..."

F : This is nowhere as good as Lexus. look at all the details. they will never catch up to Toyota/Lexus "
M : I like this. I think it's ok, consider I can get a 3.8 for around 35K. I don't think Lexus has anything at this price range that offers so much.

"End of test drive, went home"
F : I'm telling you, Hyundai is garbage. I don't care what the warranty is, Lexus is the best.
M : I still like Genesis more. if I just get the car and never told you it's a Hyundai, you not even gonna know it's a Hyundai
F : I still think Lexus is better
M : ...

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

But for now, their new cars are overshadowed by their older cars that are still on the road but aren't nearly the same quality.

Makes ya wonder how they're still on the road...

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[NYCGPS]

IMO, at least Hyundai have less problems than "the OMG so cool" Audi.

People think Audi/VW is better because it's "German cars"

but car enthusiasm knows Audi/VW makes garbage, their car looks cool I admit, and the fit and finish is 2nd to none, but unless you have really deep pockets, their mechanical and electrical problems will eat you alive. Changing a Timing belt on A8L from 2004 cost 2.2K at Audi dealership. Even if you buy their Extended warranty, which covers almost everything except some wear items. it still cost you 85 bux PER VISIT. and the warranty itself cost about 2.5-4K depends on which car.

 

[Ruissimo]

their car looks cool I admit, and the fit and finish is 2nd to none, but unless you have really deep pockets, their mechanical and electrical problems will eat you alive.

Changing a Timing belt on A8L from 2004 cost 2.2K

it still cost you 85 bux PER VISIT

I can vouch for all three of those statements.

 

[STREETS]

Perceptions change- 30 years ago the mere thought of driving a JAP car- especially WWII generation- now they drive Toyota's, Nissan & Mazda.

Intelligence trumps ignorance. Those worrying about perceptions has the latter.

Can anyone seriously deny that for the past 30+ years GM has mainly produced crap?

 

[Mark_888]

A lot of people don't remember when Toyotas and Hondas were considered jokes, back in the 80s. They just kept putting out excellent product and after a while people realized that the cars were more reliable and a better value than the American brands.

I think that was well before the 80's. By the 80's, they were considered quite good and reliable cars. By 1986, the Accord was a gem (and same year that Acura Lengend was introduced). I had an 86 Honda Accord LXi and took my boss for ride (who only drove Mercedes) and he could not believe the quality. I drove another person who had a big BMW, and she said "what is this, I like it".

In the 1980's someone at an auto magazine wrote an article saying that Honda made the only car that they ever tested that could idle indefinitely without overheating (which just about any car can do these days). That's why Honda did so well selling lawn mowers, generators, small outboard boat engines, etc. Most reliable engines on the planet back in 80's.

In the 1980’s Honda did pretty well on F1 racing according to Wikipedia:

“Honda returned to Formula One in 1983 as an engine supplier for Spirit and stayed in the sport for a decade, at various times teaming with Lotus, McLaren, Tyrrell and Williams. Honda engines were considered the ticket to Grand Prix glory due to their power, reliability, and winning track record. Honda supplied its engines to six constructor champions, as well as five driver championships (3 by Senna, 1 by Piquet, and another by Prost), before dropping out of the sport again [in 1992]. Honda-powered cars had won 71 Grands Prix, by the end of the 1992 season.”​

But yes, at some earlier time Honda and Toyota were crap, like those cheap Japanese transistor radios in the 60’s that weren’t any good either. But the Japanese got better at electronics, and cars, pretty quickly.

 

[Glashub]

Thanks everyone for your input. NYCGPS's Dad is who concerns me (altough not enough not to buy the car as I intend to) but that he would be contemptuous and closed minded prior to thinking it through. His Dad is the type of person who can afford the car and can afford the car used. I'm hoping that when I sell the car, it will have the value add of being a Geneis vs. being another Hyundai.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Thanks everyone for your input. NYCGPS's Dad is who concerns me (altough not enough not to buy the car as I intend to) but that he would be contemptuous and closed minded prior to thinking it through. His Dad is the type of person who can afford the car and can afford the car used. I'm hoping that when I sell the car, it will have the value add of being a Geneis vs. being another Hyundai.

Trade in values are now guaranteed. (conditions apply).

And many old men are known for yelling "get off my lawn".

 

[YEH]

I would say Infiniti has done a good job of creating a premium brand. It scares me when the say the Geneis is what it is....a Hyundai.

Really?

The only Infiniti vehicle that really sells in volume is the G37/G25, and if it weren't for its SUV/CUVs (which have barely decent sales), Infiniti sales would pretty much all be the G (last year Infiniti sold 103,411 vehicles; 58,143 of those sold were the G).

If we include a full year's sale of the Equus, Hyundai would have sold 30K vehicles last year.

With a compact sedan and a mid-size CUV (which are in the works), Hyundai could probably add at least 40-45K in sales (more if you include a Genesis and Equus w/ AWD).

That's 70-75K in sales w/ just 4 models which isn't that far from the 85K in sales Ford did w/ Lincoln last year.

Now, I'm not saying having a luxury brand/dealer network wouldn't be nice, but would you rather have Hyundai spend their $$ on that or on additional luxury products (nevermind improving the Genesis and Equus)?

Maybe once Hyundai has a fuller lineup of luxury vehicles - they should look into whether it is worth launching a luxury brand again, but now they have their hands full trying to get their Hyundai dealer network in shape.

Don't be scared. As the articles above state loud and clear, today's Hyundai is a for cry from even 5 years ago when all it had going for them was cheap and a great warranty.

Entry Lux- Genesis Sedan
Hi End Lux- EQUUS

At least the auto rags are including the Equus in the luxury flaghship comparisons - something you don't see w/ the Lincoln or Cadillac.

It remains to be seen if they will include the upcoming XTS in such comparisons or deem it not quite flagship material (saving that for the rumored RWD Caddy flagship).

you nailed it. i don't like the flying "H" because it screams CHEAP. it will be a stigma with our generation and probably half way into the next.

Irrespective of the history, the "flying H" is just a bad emblem for a car brand, much less for luxury vehicles (it would be like putting that equally bad Toyota emblem on a Lexus).

Hyundai should really come up with a new, cleaner design for its badge.

I think that was well before the 80's. By the 80's, they were considered quite good and reliable cars. By 1986, the Accord was a gem (and same year that Acura Lengend was introduced). I had an 86 Honda Accord LXi and took my boss for ride (who only drove Mercedes) and he could not believe the quality. I drove another person who had a big BMW, and she said "what is this, I like it".

By the mid-late '80s, the Japanese "Big 3" were seen as being good and reliable (particularly by the more educated set/those living along the coasts), but they still had the stigma of being "cheap" among the general population.

The model that really changed that around for Toyota was the '92 model year Camry which was launched in the US in '91. Many consider XV10 Camry to be the high point of the Camry line.

One person posted about all the grief he had gotten when he decided to purchase his 1st Japanese car in 1990; everyone he knew kept asking why he got such a cheap car and why he didn't get something better like the Cavalier.

I knew, at a young age, that the Cavalier was a barely OK car and that its reliability was well, questionable, but there were other people that thought different.

My point being that not everyone is going to "get it" at the same time and some never will (I'm sure there are some old geezers out there who still think Toyotas are cheap, "tin-cans."

Also, no brand has seen a rise in "prestige" more so than VW.

Back during the '70s and early '80s, they were still primarily known for the cheap Beetle. Then during the late '80s/early '90s, they became the favorite auto brand for HS and college girls everywhere, and since then, VW has become a "premium" mainstream brand.

 

[YEH]

Also, while some people's perception of Hyundai may never change, it is changing.

You don't see 24% sales growth in 2010 and 29% growth for the 1st 5 months of this year unless people's perceptions have started to change.

Hyundai/Kia have seen a bigger inventory drop since March than the Japanese manufacturers.

 

[Mark_888]

By the mid-late '80s, the Japanese "Big 3" were seen as being good and reliable (particularly by the more educated set/those living along the coasts), but they still had the stigma of being "cheap" among the general population.

The model that really changed that around for Toyota was the '92 model year Camry which was launched in the US in '91. Many consider XV10 Camry to be the high point of the Camry line.

One person posted about all the grief he had gotten when he decided to purchase his 1st Japanese car in 1990; everyone he knew kept asking why he got such a cheap car and why he didn't get something better like the Cavalier.

All I can say is that it must have been in the Northeast or Rust Belt only. In the South and West, there were no questions about Honda or Toyota quality by early 1980's. No one in CA would be caught dead in a Cavalier or similar American car in the 80's.

 

[Mark_888]

Also, while some people's perception of Hyundai may never change, it is changing.

You don't see 24% sales growth in 2010 and 29% growth for the 1st 5 months of this year unless people's perceptions have started to change.

Hyundai/Kia have seen a bigger inventory drop since March than the Japanese manufacturers.

Confucius say: Time heals all wounds.

Even Fiat is coming back into the US market, because many potential buyers are too young to know anything about Fiat's crappy cars before the left the US market years ago.