3.8 Ram Air Intake custom heat shield a more true "CAI"

[DaNooch]

Your last paragraph actually relates to our N/A engine. And yes, our engines(v6 and v8) can adapt to changes in air flow and temps. Our engines uses variable valve timing and valve lift technology.

You do not know if the Genesis engine is making 1hp or 15 hp with an performance intake. So, please stop stating that something is not worth doing if you do not have any real facts that states otherwise. You may have your opinion, but that does not mean that it is a fact.

Oh man you think VVTLi is how an engine changes its tuning?? Lol thats what you’re not getting.. it is a FACT..

Heres me with Kevin Harvick.. my office with kurt busch’s car parked in front. Champagne for finishing 8th our first year in F1.. etc.. etc.. i know just a tiny amount more than the guy at AEM or K&N making the cheapest most profitable intake system for you to buy.. Don't worry im done the lesson. I tried..

 

[carguy75]

Lol you guys just don't get it man. The kool aid is really strong with you both.. ill try to give you the science behind it with a usable value you can calculate.
Did you not see the post informing you that (on average) charge air temps leaving a compressor of any kind are in the 200-350 F ranges? It doesn't matter if it is 20 degrees F outside or 100.. That compressed charge air is coming out of the turbo or supercharger at over 200.. degrees at a minimum.. this is before it enters the engine and combustion temps reach over 500.. lol. The ONLY reason cold air helps is because it is more dense, hence more air to allow the burn of more fuel, which releases energy (another form of work) via heat transfer..the Volume increases but remember PV=nRT so V=T/P it is not directly relative to temp or pressure yet a variable of their ratio both. Thermodynamics isnt something you can just down play and explain withoubt understanding mathematics and physics first. So i get that I'm telling you something that every aftermarket company has said the complete opposite. But I’m trying to teach you the truth in hopes that you will gain from it and not waste money, thats all?? Lol, you giys wanna “debate” me over it you go right ahead, but these are scientific LAWS Discovered back in the late 1600’s.. Trust me.. Example im going to give you a problem where you can get a ratio to see how hot air (an ideal gas) will get when compressed. Remember the laws of thermo hold true But you cannot complete a problem like this and factor in all variables. We will assume an adiabatic process.Lets say you want to know the temperature of air compressed to 120psi above gauge (gauge is standard atmospheric pressure or 1bar, 1atm “absolute pressure” etc..)
Reducing it to a pressure ratio, the prob I cited is 14.7 psi(abs) to 120 psi (gauge)+ 14.7 psi or (120+14.7)/14.7 = 9.16 pressure ratio.
For air, the absolute temp ratio will be the power ~.4/1.4 or .285 of the pressure ratio.
So, using a calc, the absolute temp ratio:
9.16^.285 = 1.88
Lets assume we start out with an inlet air temp of 70F, the abs temp is 70+459=529R. the abs temp after compression will be 529 X 1.88 = 994R
Bringing it back to F, 994R - 459 = So if you take 70degree ambient air and compress it to 120psi the air temp coming out of the compressor is 535F.. You get it now???

Of course, nothing is a true adiabatic process and much of the heat will be lossed in the compressor, (heat transfer to the metals etc) so in real life the temp will actually be lower.
A more exact exponent for air is .283, reducing the temp a little. With heat exchange you're looking at charge air temps in the low 400’s.. lol

The rise in temperature depends mostly on the pressure change and to a very very lesser extent, the inlet temperature. The volume has nothing to do with the temperature rise.


The only vehicles that will benefit from colder intake charge air are NA engines, that have a hardcore enough timing table tuned in to take advantage of as much timing advance as possible. Which production cars cannot do, nor do you have thermistors on your car that will read fast enough to allow the ecu to advance the timing because its not safe..Especially for stop and go driving where you will experience heat soak a ton..


Apparently you guys have a huge misconception about pro-mod, pro-stock, outlaw class etc drag cars?? No tirbo pro mod car has any openings in its body for “Fresh air” you guys rhink is entering the turbos. See the pics? Those are decals. Lol..


View attachment 20550View attachment 20551View attachment 20552

Why? Casue the aerodynamic drag and loss from those air holes hurt the drag times far more than any “fresh air would help” The pro-mods you see with massive throttle bodied intake ducts, those are alcohol and nitro burning supercharged cars? They could five a rats ass what the temps are because their fuel cools the shit out of their engines! When you want to start making 3 or 4 thousand plus Hp, you switch fuels. Lol the parasitic loss of those superchargers is over 600 hp!! Lol

If you just cant accept that you've been fed a lot of marketing shite your whole lives i understasn. But that doesn't mean you're right?? Heres some kther photos you wont find on the internet that will maybe make you believe me MAYBE...
View attachment 20553

Again, the basic truth is that cooler air makes more power for a N/A engine that is used in our passenger car. The long posts you keep typing does not change that fact. You are focusing on using drag cars and race cars with massive turbos which are not even close to how our V6 or V8 operates.

Cooler air flow equals more horspower in an engine, simple.

 

[carguy75]

Oh man you think VVTLi is how an engine changes its tuning?? Lol thats what you’re not getting.. it is a FACT..

Heres me with Kevin Harvick.. my office with kurt busch’s car parked in front. Champagne for finishing 8th our first year in F1.. etc.. etc.. i know just a tiny amount more than the guy at AEM or K&N making the cheapest most profitable intake system for you to buy.. Don't worry im done the lesson. I tried.. View attachment 20554View attachment 20555View attachment 20556

What do you do again that makes you an expert?

 

[edizzle89]

Well yes you are correct it is an “increase” in temperature and pressure etc..due to the ideal gas law.. PV=nRT where N is the molecular weight of your gas and R is a constant. They can be erased and you have PV=T.

This'll be pretty simplified, but hopefully gets the basic point across.

First, it's not so much the pressure that causes things to heat up, but the compression. So we can just imagine taking a container of gas and compressing it.

1. The temperature of a gas is proportional to the average kinetic energy of the gas molecules. That means that the hotter something is, the faster the particles are moving. We're just talking about the "internal" motion of the gas, here -- if there's a current or wind flowing through it, we ignore that. Temperature is more about the molecules jiggling around or bouncing back and forth.
2. When you push on a particle, it gains energy, i.e. it starts moving faster.
3. If I have a container of gas and start compressing it, I necessarily have to push inwards. This pushes on the molecules in the container, and therefore... makes them move faster. We are putting energy into the gas (this is called doing work.)
4. But the gas itself isn't going anywhere, it's contained. So it's the internal energy that's increasing. Assuming nothing weird happens as the gas gets denser, that means that the temperature is increasing.

So in a way youre right but in a way ypu are wrong. Because the average outlet temp from a compressor system is known to be any where from 180/350 degrees F. So yes it doesnt matter if your smbient temps are 35 or 105 that charge air is coming out at at least 200. Now where does ambient air come into play? With aftercooling. A good A2A intercooler will get you down to within 10 degrees of ambient. The intake air temp means nothing really. Any good race car will use a A2L or evaporating gas cooling system, which will give you lower than ambient charge air temps. Again for FI cars it doesn't really matter.

you act like heating and cooling changes are an absolute value. you cant say a turbo will raise charge temps to 200* regardless of intake temp, a turbo drawing in air at X degrees, compressing air to Y psi will increase temp to Z, not just to 200* (just as an example) regardless of anything else, it's a variable, to say your charge temp will always be 200* at any intake temp then you'd have to vary your compression value. Same applies for an intercooler, you cant just say it will always be within 10 degrees of ambient, it's going to cool a 200* charge better if it's 35* outside vs. 100*, but you aren't going to get that charge air from 200* to 45*, no intercooler will have a 150*+ temp differential without being massively inefficient for your charge pressure.


also the black drag car you posted has a hole right in the middle for an air inlet and white/red drag car has a blower air scoop facing front and center. also not a single person here is talking about they dynamics of F1 cars or 3000+ hp dragsters. your selfie with some guy doesn't really say anything about you anyways, i have pictures of me at NASA, doesn't make me an astronaut.

Can you not agree that cooler air going to the intake will always be better than hot air? it might not be some gigantic gain but it will net more hp, even if it's marginal. there is literally no downside to getting air that is closest to ambient temp.

 

[DaNooch]

Well what makes me qualified? Maybe to start that i have a Mechanical Engineering degree, then maybe that said degree is in power systems and design, then because i spent the first decade of my post graduate career as an automotive design engineer. I started with Siemens/Continental designing Deka injectors, Piezo common rail injectors, CNG injectors etc, and fuel pressure regulators. Our fuel systems are in almost every chrysler, dodge, Ford, GM, daimler, pugeuet, VW etc vehicle. Then i became a member of the SAE.. Then i continued to work for major automotive with Bosch, Schrader, and GKN. Doing fuel systems and for GKN drivetrain design for BMW, Maserati, the CtsV, the C5 and C6 vette, etc..

From there i took over as an engineering manager in a aftermarket racing suspension company called JRi shocks, and a private defense contractor called MSI defense solutions.. From connections i made through racing period, i got put in touch with Tony Stewart and Gene Haas. So I went to work for the Stewart Haas nascar team. Then when Gene Haas decided he was gna start an F1 team, i was moved over there. So idk gives me a little bit of expertise.. Those “guys” in the picture with me are Kevin Magnussen one kf our F1 drivers, and Kevin Harvick. If you dont know who Tony stewart or Kevin Harvick are i cant help you.

Have i said very very clearly that for an NA engine colder air at the intake will be better for the engine to make more power? Yup, i said that, what i said was the difference betwwen what a short ram/ CAI/or no intake at all!! For that matter in terms of power is nothing. And a factory programmed vehicle (much more so in a henesis than say a vette, or M-series, or AMG etc) does not have the tuning set for the optimal most power making timing tables or fuel trims. How do i know that? Cause i wrote the fuel trim programs with the automaker engineers since i made their fuel injectors, regulators. Pumps etc..

And yes man, i am telling you that no matter what charge air coming off a turbo be it 0 degrees or 100 is going to be over 200 degrees???!! That yes these are laws where entire tables exist to show the change im temp, pressure, volume, velocity, energy, work etc at .1 increments! Thats what you guys dont get?? Lol thermo is thermo? An otto cycle is an otto cycle?! It doesnt matter if its a 4000hp drag car or a 1985 hyundai elantra?! Thats what im trying to get you to understand? That these are scientific laws and those temps will be at a minimum the temps i stated and showed you via MATH.. yes you have been lied to blatantly when entire scientific laws exist to disprove their claims. Lmao.. sorry? Theres nothing about a genesis motor that differs it from any other. In fact the CR on the GDI motor is over 13:1!! Thats insane, and the combustion temps are so high in our cars because of that. The only reason our engines don't detonate and blow up in seconds is because of a miracle called GDI..

You dont beleive me? Dontourself a favor and start learning the laws of thermo and the fundamentals of internal combustion engines.. in fact to cold ambient air fucks your motor up more than to hot!! Colder is not always better.

And dude now you’re really staring things you know nothing about. Yes a decent air to air intercooler with good airflow will bring your charge air temps down to 10-15 degrees above ambient. Any more and correct you loose to much pressure trying to cool it.. remember PV=nRT!! The thermal conductivity of air to water and compressed gas intercoolers is ligth years better and yes you will cool below ambient air temps easily. So yes everything you just listed as crazy talk is all true.. During each race we receive over 130 GIGS of data from the race car.. just a tiny tiny amount of that are temp sensor readings. F1 uses air to air cause of rules. Not cause its better?

Ok now I'm done.. You guys spend away as much as your little hearts desire.

 

[carguy75]

Well what makes me qualified? Maybe to start that i have a Mechanical Engineering degree, then maybe that said degree is in power systems and design, then because i spent the first decade of my post graduate career as an automotive design engineer. I started with Siemens/Continental designing Deka injectors, Piezo common rail injectors, CNG injectors etc, and fuel pressure regulators. Our fuel systems are in almost every chrysler, dodge, Ford, GM, daimler, pugeuet, VW etc vehicle. Then i became a member of the SAE.. Then i continued to work for major automotive with Bosch, Schrader, and GKN. Doing fuel systems and for GKN drivetrain design for BMW, Maserati, the CtsV, the C5 and C6 vette, etc..

From there i took over as an engineering manager in a aftermarket racing suspension company called JRi shocks, and a private defense contractor called MSI defense solutions.. From connections i made through racing period, i got put in touch with Tony Stewart and Gene Haas. So I went to work for the Stewart Haas nascar team. Then when Gene Haas decided he was gna start an F1 team, i was moved over there. So idk gives me a little bit of expertise.. Those “guys” in the picture with me are Kevin Magnussen one kf our F1 drivers, and Kevin Harvick. If you dont know who Tony stewart or Kevin Harvick are i cant help you.

Have i said very very clearly that for an NA engine colder air at the intake will be better for the engine to make more power? Yup, i said that, what i said was the difference betwwen what a short ram/ CAI/or no intake at all!! For that matter in terms of power is nothing. And a factory programmed vehicle (much more so in a henesis than say a vette, or M-series, or AMG etc) does not have the tuning set for the optimal most power making timing tables or fuel trims. How do i know that? Cause i wrote the fuel trim programs with the automaker engineers since i made their fuel injectors, regulators. Pumps etc..

And yes man, i am telling you that no matter what charge air coming off a turbo be it 0 degrees or 100 is going to be over 200 degrees???!! That yes these are laws where entire tables exist to show the change im temp, pressure, volume, velocity, energy, work etc at .1 increments! Thats what you guys dont get?? Lol thermo is thermo? An otto cycle is an otto cycle?! It doesnt matter if its a 4000hp drag car or a 1985 hyundai elantra?! Thats what im trying to get you to understand? That these are scientific laws and those temps will be at a minimum the temps i stated and showed you via MATH.. yes you have been lied to blatantly when entire scientific laws exist to disprove their claims. Lmao.. sorry? Theres nothing about a genesis motor that differs it from any other. In fact the CR on the GDI motor is over 13:1!! Thats insane, and the combustion temps are so high in our cars because of that. The only reason our engines don't detonate and blow up in seconds is because of a miracle called GDI..

You dont beleive me? Dontourself a favor and start learning the laws of thermo and the fundamentals of internal combustion engines.. in fact to cold ambient air fucks your motor up more than to hot!! Colder is not always better.

And dude now you’re really staring things you know nothing about. Yes a decent air to air intercooler with good airflow will bring your charge air temps down to 10-15 degrees above ambient. Any more and correct you loose to much pressure trying to cool it.. remember PV=nRT!! The thermal conductivity of air to water and compressed gas intercoolers is ligth years better and yes you will cool below ambient air temps easily. So yes everything you just listed as crazy talk is all true.. During each race we receive over 130 GIGS of data from the race car.. just a tiny tiny amount of that are temp sensor readings. F1 uses air to air cause of rules. Not cause its better?

Ok now I'm done.. You guys spend away as much as your little hearts desire.

So basically you admit that cooler air provides a boost to engine performance over warmer air and hide the information in excessively large post about thermodynamics effect of turbo charged engines.

I respect that you design fuel injectors, but that does not mean that you know everything about Hyundai engines and what the ECU are able to adapt to. Yes, the adaptation range of the ECU will be limited to a set of parameters that are on the conservative side on a stock tune, but the engine could still gain 10-15hp with good air intake that pulls in cooler air. Dyno tests have proven as much on similar modern direct injection engines. There will always be other factors that determine how well an engine respond to modifications such as intakes and exhaust. Variable valve timing(retard/advance) and valve lift(opening and closing duration) is like what make modern engines very adaptive. Valve lift is like a change in the camshaft profile on an engine which can provide a nice bump in performance.

I work in Radiology, however it does not mean that I know about everything that is medical imaging. I know nothing much about interpreting ultrasound aside from the basics, but I understand cross-sectional anatomy very well. Same for you, since you design fuel injectors but that does not mean that you know every aspect of the ECU control system and what gains can be made on every different engine control system aside from injector slope and trim for a particular system.

Most of your comments about the power gain from our engines is still just you opinion(educated, but still unproven) without facts or data to back it up. Because you design(adjust,etc.) a part for an engine does not make you an expert of all things engines.

In the end, a gain still a gain. How much is anyone guess unless dyno tested.

A criticism dyno is just as unreliable as a butt-dyno.

 

[DaNooch]

So basically you admit that cooler air provides a boost to engine performance over warmer air and hide the information in excessively large post about thermodynamics effect of turbo charged engines.

I respect that you design fuel injectors, but that does not mean that you know everything about Hyundai engines and what the ECU are able to adapt to. Yes, the adaptation range of the ECU will be limited to a set of parameters that are on the conservative side on a stock tune, but the engine could still gain 10-15hp with good air intake that pulls in cooler air. Dyno tests have proven as much on similar modern direct injection engines. There will always be other factors that determine how well an engine respond to modifications such as intakes and exhaust. Variable valve timing(retard/advance) and valve lift(opening and closing duration) is like what make modern engines very adaptive. Valve lift is like a change in the camshaft profile on an engine which can provide a nice bump in performance.

I work in Radiology, however it does not mean that I know about everything that is medical imaging. I know nothing much about interpreting ultrasound aside from the basics, but I understand cross-sectional anatomy very well. Same for you, since you design fuel injectors but that does not mean that you know every aspect of the ECU control system and what gains can be made on every different engine control system aside from injector slope and trim for a particular system.

Most of your comments about the power gain from our engines is still just you opinion(educated, but still unproven) without facts or data to back it up. Because you design(adjust,etc.) a part for an engine does not make you an expert of all things engines.

In the end, a gain still a gain. How much is anyone guess unless dyno tested.

A criticism dyno is just as unreliable as a butt-dyno.

My friend i never said you are not going to gain power by putting on an intake system? Because our car was designed for comfort and luxury the increase in air volume and velocity alone is going to net gaims? Why do you think i put an intake on my genny? Lol

My statement was the effects of a “Cold air intake” are so negligible its not at all worth it in terms of power gained vs. money spent. If we were driving extremely highly engineered and specific vehicles like Ferraris, Lambo’s, McClarens etc i would pretty much put my life on the fact that if you touch their factory intake systems at all you WILL lose power.

And i dont think you understand how cars are built and who writes the fuel trims and timing tables on modern cars? GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, daimler ypu name it None of them make their own fuel systems. None of them even know the capapbilities of the fuel systems they are putting on their cars? It meets their validation requirements and thats it Only continental, Bosch, Delphi, Denso and maybe one other makes fuel injectors, fuel pumps, rails, you name it.

Second an OBD2 ecu is an obd2 ecu. They are all the same all adherent to the same EPA and CARB requirements. So yes i def know what Hyundai or any other manufacturer has as a general base tune for reliability, longevity, emissions, mpg, and lastly performance..

Not to mention now i work with the most complicated and most engineered vehicle on the planet second only to the space shuttle. You said it perfectly, you are a radiologist but within radiology there are many specialities. You might not know how to read a ultrasound but he doesn't know how to read an MRI. My girl is an oncology RN.. she knows a crap ton about chemo, but shes not a trauma nurse?

Same goes for engineering. Because you’re an engineer doesnt mean you know more about engines than anyone else? But if you’re a mechanical engineer you know a s ton more than most, if your a mechanical engineer that focused in powertrain theory and design you know more than 95% of people in the world when it comes to power units of any kind, and then when you focus that even more to be strictly automotive, then yea im not trying to be cocky but i pretty much know more than 99% of the population what is happening and why with any engine. It just is what it is? Nascar is fuel injected as well and inwrote those tables too with some amazing guys from Hendrix and Rousch Yates. Thats what im saying is i am the expert.. i was just trying to not be an arrogant f’er and say it. Lol

Variable Valve timing has been around for over 40 years in production cars alone, variable lift has been around for about 30. Vtec was banned by the FIA in the 60’s cause F1 engines already utilized it.. lol. Yes vtec changes the cam duration and open/close points by an hydraulic or electric actuator that slightly moves the cam at a certain rpm and throttle position. You know why they exist?? As a way to cheat the emissions regulations and give you two engines in one really, one passes tests the other doesnt. But they dont emission test at 4k rpm at wot so its all good. You know why race cars dont have VTEC?? Cause they dont need it. The hyundai motors are great motors, dont get me wrong. But they are not cutting edge or special in any way. BMW and Benz not only have VVTLi (variable valve timing and lift) they also have self actuated and adjusting intake velocity stacks, they don't have a throttle body.. lol Shit man koneiggsegg has an engine with no freaking valves!!

Plus that is ENGINE or mechanical timing that is being changed. What your ecu controls and what really matters to performance and drive is IGNITION timing. Nothing mechanical about it period.

So again ill say it one more time. Does ambient air temp matter at all to any engine that is forced induction or not Naturally Aspirated?? No it does not.. in those it only matters if you have an air to air charge air cooler.

Does cold air help a NA motor like our genesis? Yes in theory it does. Does it make even 1% change in power output of the engine? No it doesnt.. will you gain a substantial amount more power and beat a genesis exactly like yours only differenxe being he has a short ram and you have a CAI (if one existed lol) no you wont. The performace gain is due to the larger volume of air entering the engine and the higher velocity of said air. So again, if you want to spend x amount of money and custom make all this stuff gonright ahead my friend!! Are you hurting anything?? As long as you don't effect airflow no you're not hurting shit, so have at it!! Im telling you if you dont wamt to blow extra hundreds of dollars then don't, make the same power and spend that money on another upgrade.. Now!! If we could get real tunes then you could see a market and worth while increase in getting that colder air.. phew!! Now im going to update my navi!

 

[carguy75]

My friend i never said you are not going to gain power by putting on an intake system? Because our car was designed for comfort and luxury the increase in air volume and velocity alone is going to net gaims? Why do you think i put an intake on my genny? Lol

My statement was the effects of a “Cold air intake” are so negligible its not at all worth it in terms of power gained vs. money spent. If we were driving extremely highly engineered and specific vehicles like Ferraris, Lambo’s, McClarens etc i would pretty much put my life on the fact that if you touch their factory intake systems at all you WILL lose power.

And i dont think you understand how cars are built and who writes the fuel trims and timing tables on modern cars? GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, daimler ypu name it None of them make their own fuel systems. None of them even know the capapbilities of the fuel systems they are putting on their cars? It meets their validation requirements and thats it Only continental, Bosch, Delphi, Denso and maybe one other makes fuel injectors, fuel pumps, rails, you name it.

Second an OBD2 ecu is an obd2 ecu. They are all the same all adherent to the same EPA and CARB requirements. So yes i def know what Hyundai or any other manufacturer has as a general base tune for reliability, longevity, emissions, mpg, and lastly performance..

Not to mention now i work with the most complicated and most engineered vehicle on the planet second only to the space shuttle. You said it perfectly, you are a radiologist but within radiology there are many specialities. You might not know how to read a ultrasound but he doesn't know how to read an MRI. My girl is an oncology RN.. she knows a crap ton about chemo, but shes not a trauma nurse?

Same goes for engineering. Because you’re an engineer doesnt mean you know more about engines than anyone else? But if you’re a mechanical engineer you know a s ton more than most, if your a mechanical engineer that focused in powertrain theory and design you know more than 95% of people in the world when it comes to power units of any kind, and then when you focus that even more to be strictly automotive, then yea im not trying to be cocky but i pretty much know more than 99% of the population what is happening and why with any engine. It just is what it is? Nascar is fuel injected as well and inwrote those tables too with some amazing guys from Hendrix and Rousch Yates. Thats what im saying is i am the expert.. i was just trying to not be an arrogant f’er and say it. Lol

Variable Valve timing has been around for over 40 years in production cars alone, variable lift has been around for about 30. Vtec was banned by the FIA in the 60’s cause F1 engines already utilized it.. lol. Yes vtec changes the cam duration and open/close points by an hydraulic or electric actuator that slightly moves the cam at a certain rpm and throttle position. You know why they exist?? As a way to cheat the emissions regulations and give you two engines in one really, one passes tests the other doesnt. But they dont emission test at 4k rpm at wot so its all good. You know why race cars dont have VTEC?? Cause they dont need it. The hyundai motors are great motors, dont get me wrong. But they are not cutting edge or special in any way. BMW and Benz not only have VVTLi (variable valve timing and lift) they also have self actuated and adjusting intake velocity stacks, they don't have a throttle body.. lol Shit man koneiggsegg has an engine with no f$%king valves!!

Plus that is ENGINE or mechanical timing that is being changed. What your ecu controls and what really matters to performance and drive is IGNITION timing. Nothing mechanical about it period.

So again ill say it one more time. Does ambient air temp matter at all to any engine that is forced induction or not Naturally Aspirated?? No it does not.. in those it only matters if you have an air to air charge air cooler.

Does cold air help a NA motor like our genesis? Yes in theory it does. Does it make even 1% change in power output of the engine? No it doesnt.. will you gain a substantial amount more power and beat a genesis exactly like yours only differenxe being he has a short ram and you have a CAI (if one existed lol) no you wont. The performace gain is due to the larger volume of air entering the engine and the higher velocity of said air. So again, if you want to spend x amount of money and custom make all this stuff gonright ahead my friend!! Are you hurting anything?? As long as you don't effect airflow no you're not hurting shit, so have at it!! Im telling you if you dont wamt to blow extra hundreds of dollars then don't, make the same power and spend that money on another upgrade.. Now!! If we could get real tunes then you could see a market and worth while increase in getting that colder air.. phew!! Now im going to update my navi!

Well, it does seem like we are on the same page overall.

To be honest, the gains from a cold air intake vs. and short ram intake would be very minimum if both use the same size air filter and piping. My point is that a gain is a gain. No one should expect any major gains from a properly designed short ram intake vs. a cold air intake. However, with a N/A engine we have to expect very small power gains compared to force induction engines from aftermarket parts and tuning. My point is that modern engines does seem to pick-up decent gains from air intake mods due to the variable technology and faster ecu processors than cars 10 years ago. Many small engines pick up about 6whp from performance filters/intakes and larger V6/V8 engines seems to pickup about 10-20whp depending on the displacement/design. Therefore, I believe the old theory about an engine only picking up 1-2whp with an performance intake/drop-in air filter is not true for most newer direct injected engines.

Here is some gains made just using performance drop-in filters vs. stock paper filters.
5whp gain in a old Ford 150

Late model G37 gained 14whp

2007 Honda Civic gained 4whp

 

[DaNooch]

CAI manufactures should sponsor that if they want to make sales.

They do not sponsor that on purpose so they DO make sales..advertising is like statistics, you can mold it to say what you want. I could make an intake for our car right now with a 7inch diameter tube and basketball sized filter sticking out of the grill like a giant breathing dildo. It could loose power on almost the entire RPM range and then at 6400rpm to 6900 it picks up 14.2hp over stock IF AND ONLY IF i spray a 50 shot of nitrous as well..

I can then go advertise in every magazine or online forum there is that my intake gains you 14.2 hp over stock and is straight race car!! Not stating a single thing about nitrous or any lf that, and its nkt legally “false advertising” and i couldn't be found guilty of such things. Thats what people don't get.

They also don't understand at all the immense variation from dyno to dyno, the huge effect elevation, dew point, and humidity have on a dyno run result, and the biggest thing is how much error that machine has from the factory..

All measurement devices have error, and there is no regulation that dyno tuners have to have their dynamometer calibrated once a year or ever?! Also did your tuner give you a corrected print out of results or is it uncorrected? Those things could literally vary results by 100’s of hp depending on how much the car is putting down. Generally as the numbers increase the error increases much more.

This is easily observable by simply running a car with no change on the same dyno the same day during the same conditions and your results will never match.. they might be close but they wont match. To many people look at dyno outputs as gospel. It is simply a measuring tool used to help quickly show you the effect of a change you made or to obtain a baseline before changes are made.. (a better baseline would be a road tune) The factors are nearly limitless. Hence why again race cars dont use dynos the use track performance as their measurement tool.

“Ohh the dyno says i gained 7hp!!” But did you? No probably not. Thats just the variabilty of the measurement tools. Go run a 1/4 mile and see if you ET or trap speed changes at all.. any kind of 5-10hp change, you will see no change in track performace. (For your average car like ours making 300+hp) add 10hp to a 15 hp lawn mower motor and its a huge change.. lol its all relative.

Is it harder for NA motors to pick up power over boosted motors?? No not at all, its just harder Mechanically to achieve the same gains bevause in the NA car if you want to gain 100hp you have to change the entire top lf the engine basically. Heads, cam, manifold etc.. in the boosted car as long as the bottom end is up to snuff and your fuel systems has the capacity all you gotta do is turn up the boost!

I might add that there is actually an abundance of internal big boy engine modifications for the 3.8 cause of our little brother the coupe. Its not true that we lack aftermarket support ler say.. what we lack is body/model specific bolt on modifications. You can go buy, a stroker kit, rods, pistons, heads, cams etc.. for the 3.8 right now and have a 500+ hp gen sedan easily.. if you know how to install it all. Lol

 

[carguy75]

They do not sponsor that on purpose so they DO make sales..advertising is like statistics, you can mold it to say what you want. I could make an intake for our car right now with a 7inch diameter tube and basketball sized filter sticking out of the grill like a giant breathing dildo. It could loose power on almost the entire RPM range and then at 6400rpm to 6900 it picks up 14.2hp over stock IF AND ONLY IF i spray a 50 shot of nitrous as well..

I can then go advertise in every magazine or online forum there is that my intake gains you 14.2 hp over stock and is straight race car!! Not stating a single thing about nitrous or any lf that, and its nkt legally “false advertising” and i couldn't be found guilty of such things. Thats what people don't get.

They also don't understand at all the immense variation from dyno to dyno, the huge effect elevation, dew point, and humidity have on a dyno run result, and the biggest thing is how much error that machine has from the factory..

All measurement devices have error, and there is no regulation that dyno tuners have to have their dynamometer calibrated once a year or ever?! Also did your tuner give you a corrected print out of results or is it uncorrected? Those things could literally vary results by 100’s of hp depending on how much the car is putting down. Generally as the numbers increase the error increases much more.

This is easily observable by simply running a car with no change on the same dyno the same day during the same conditions and your results will never match.. they might be close but they wont match. To many people look at dyno outputs as gospel. It is simply a measuring tool used to help quickly show you the effect of a change you made or to obtain a baseline before changes are made.. (a better baseline would be a road tune) The factors are nearly limitless. Hence why again race cars dont use dynos the use track performance as their measurement tool.

“Ohh the dyno says i gained 7hp!!” But did you? No probably not. Thats just the variabilty of the measurement tools. Go run a 1/4 mile and see if you ET or trap speed changes at all.. any kind of 5-10hp change, you will see no change in track performace. (For your average car like ours making 300+hp) add 10hp to a 15 hp lawn mower motor and its a huge change.. lol its all relative.

Is it harder for NA motors to pick up power over boosted motors?? No not at all, its just harder Mechanically to achieve the same gains bevause in the NA car if you want to gain 100hp you have to change the entire top lf the engine basically. Heads, cam, manifold etc.. in the boosted car as long as the bottom end is up to snuff and your fuel systems has the capacity all you gotta do is turn up the boost!

I might add that there is actually an abundance of internal big boy engine modifications for the 3.8 cause of our little brother the coupe. Its not true that we lack aftermarket support ler say.. what we lack is body/model specific bolt on modifications. You can go buy, a stroker kit, rods, pistons, heads, cams etc.. for the 3.8 right now and have a 500+ hp gen sedan easily.. if you know how to install it all. Lol

LOL. Hence why I do not waste my money on a dyno test.

Like I mention is other threads that request dyno runs to back-up my claims or when someone ask to see a 0-60mph run; someone will always find fault with the data. Like you, with your statement about the dyno calibration. Hell, i did a GPS test on my car and still have someone questioned the results due to concerns about the road being completely flat or not.

Critics will always be critics.

Hell, some people(flat world movement) still think that the world is flat regardless of what data is available to prove that it is round.

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[DaNooch]

LOL. Hence why I do not waste my money on a dyno test.

Like I mention is other threads that request dyno runs to back-up my claims or when someone ask to see a 0-60mph run; someone will always find fault with the data. Like you, with your statement about the dyno calibration. Hell, i did a GPS test on my car and still have someone questioned the results due to concerns about the road being completely flat or not.

Critics will always be critics.

Hell, some people(flat world movement) still think that the world is flat regardless of what data is available to prove that it is round.

Yea those guys are freaking morons!! Its like jesus christ man, you seriously are so ignorant you think the world is flat PLUS you call all the evidence and proof of planets not being flat “conspiracies” those people shouldnt be allowed to breed..

And yea everyone is going to have something slightly different in what they consider as solid empirical evidence. A Dynamometer is simply a measurement device used by tuners, and for that matter its only used for WOT tuning really.. (Chassis dynos im referring to) a good tuner is going to spend 95% of the time tuning your car via driving around town. The peak HP wot part of tuning is the easiest and fastest part done at the end.

Real world testing is the true proof. Like your 0-60 test. Doesnt matter what you use to measure it as long as you do it exactly the same before and after. All that matters is the Delta.

People also confuse accuracy with precision and vice versa. Two completely different things.. like your GPS test, is it accurate? Yup very much so, but is it precise? No not at all. Cause even badass military aviation gps systems with gimbles, and gyros in them along with super stable yet highly radioactive matter, will get you within 10-15 feet of the actual coordinate.

But for your purpose its perfect. And a whole lot better than a guy with a stop watch.. lol for sure there will always be a critic, but its also important to understand that sometimes the person isn't a critic or being critical at all, they are simply correct..

 

[DaNooch]

I forgot to mention, if you seriously had someone try to discredit your GPS 0-60 testing due to the flatness of the road??? That person my friend is what i like to call stupid.. lol

Now if you were trying to achieve accurate true 0-60 times like the automaker does, and claiming that your 0-60 times were just as accurate then no way jose. But if you were simply trying to show a delta from in increase or decrease in performance then its very good data assuming your testing methods remained constant. Testing is incredibly complex and why some people make a living doing nothing but that their whole lives (test engineers)

 

[EDmax72]

2015 3.8 AWD w/ AEM cold air intake.

 

[Cali Gen]

In this case I was fabbing it up for the BH model. It does seem that the DH set up is very similar though

2015 3.8 AWD w/ AEM cold air intake.

 

[Jalvin Cohnson]

In this case I was fabbing it up for the BH model. It does seem that the DH set up is very similar though

I was going to ask if you could modify the DH one for BH.

 

[Cali Gen]

I was going to ask if you could modify the DH one for BH.

Honestly hard to say possibly. As for the actual intake it's very similar bends and fitment however the DH looks like it has an extra vaccum hose port compared to the BH injen one I have that only has 1 port