Altering spark plug gap or replacing plugs affect engine dymanics.

1FstYota

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I run on Map2, which I'd say is more like "auto-mode", lol They have more aggressive Maps but I rather not to touch it.

As you noticed, it pulls strong, exactly where I wanted it and that's all matters to me and this car.

If I really wanted something with more power, I'd make you an offer :drunk:
That's awesome man, for around town that thing probably pulls like a freight train.

You would probably not like the clutch in my other car lol.
 

Toddasaurus

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Man, this pig runs fat. Lean that out a bit on the fuel and prob gain another 25 or so whp. Unless ya'll added the fuel to be safe. The IATs look alright at 120F, but I only see the boost between 1 and 2 at 14psi and 10 psi at 6400 rpms, I'm wondering if that is pretty much it for the lil turbos.
Thinking the same thing, you can see a little bit of boost drop off closer to peak RPM. I wonder if you could fit a couple GT2560R's in there, keep that pressure up until redline - it would probably lower IAT's as well...
 
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1FstYota

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Thinking the same thing, you can see a little bit of boost drop off closer to peak RPM. I wonder if you could fit a couple GT2560R's in there, keep that pressure up until redline - it would probably lower IAT's as well...
I don't think it would lower the IATs with even slightly larger turbos. I think a bigger intercooler would probably benefit this car tho. The Gt2560r will def hold that power, but wonder how long the rods will last. I really wanna see slight larger turbos with bigger intercooler and full downpipe and exhaust and E85 tune. I bet it will make 600awhp no problem and gobs of torque.
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Toddasaurus

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I don't think it would lower the IATs with even slightly larger turbos. I think a bigger intercooler would probably benefit this car tho. The Gt2560r will def hold that power, but wonder how long the rods will last. I really wanna see slight larger turbos with bigger intercooler and full downpipe and exhaust and E85 tune. I bet it will make 600awhp no problem and gobs of torque.
I wonder about the pistons. Cast, heat treated, supposedly. Hopefully those ringlands are nice and thick. The rods are forged, possibly even fracture split. Even so, no reports of bent rods or cracked pistons yet, as far as I've read. I wonder what the limits really are.

I know E85 has been really popular for the past 5-10 years or so, but, personally I'm more interested in water injection. That way I'm not limited to specific gas stations, also better gas mileage and you even reduce carbon buildup at the ports/valves and in the cc. Check out Terry's dyno sheet of his water/meth system on the Stinger, making around 460whp and over 500wft-lbs of torque.

Theoretically, a larger turbo running at peak efficiency will produce ever so slightly cooler compressed air than a smaller turbo trying to flow at the same rate, but out of it's efficiency range. Who knows if this would actually be the case with the 3.3, I'm sure I'm just being overly optimistic. Also, I bet the difference is negligible anyway. That said, you're right, a nice big IC is the way to go.
 
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1FstYota

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I wonder about the pistons. Cast, heat treated, supposedly. Hopefully those ringlands are nice and thick. The rods are forged, possibly even fracture split. Even so, no reports of bent rods or cracked pistons yet, as far as I've read. I wonder what the limits really are.

I know E85 has been really popular for the past 5-10 years or so, but, personally I'm more interested in water injection. That way I'm not limited to specific gas stations, also better gas mileage and you even reduce carbon buildup at the ports/valves and in the cc. Check out Terry's dyno sheet of his water/meth system on the Stinger, making around 460whp and over 500wft-lbs of torque.

Theoretically, a larger turbo running at peak efficiency will produce ever so slightly cooler compressed air than a smaller turbo trying to flow at the same rate, but out of it's efficiency range. Who knows if this would actually be the case with the 3.3, I'm sure I'm just being overly optimistic. Also, I bet the difference is negligible anyway. That said, you're right, a nice big IC is the way to go.
Good points for sure, but given the weight of the car and the high torque off even stock, I'm betting the rods are probably good for 600ft lbs and might be pushing it after that. The water injection is a good way to do it, but I liked the flexibility of the E85 especially if you have an ethynol sensor on board with an ecu that can do 3D mapping which can adjust boost, timing, and fuel on the fly. This is of course if you have access to e85 nearby which makes a lot of sense.

I almost feel like this can be a potential poor mans GTR with the AWD and the TT V6, but how far people will push it is a whole different story.

Also, wonder if they did any type of strengthening for the 8-speed auto. The V8 has similar torque but you gotta remember the TT torque comes way down low.
 

Toddasaurus

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Good points for sure, but given the weight of the car and the high torque off even stock, I'm betting the rods are probably good for 600ft lbs and might be pushing it after that. The water injection is a good way to do it, but I liked the flexibility of the E85 especially if you have an ethynol sensor on board with an ecu that can do 3D mapping which can adjust boost, timing, and fuel on the fly. This is of course if you have access to e85 nearby which makes a lot of sense.

I almost feel like this can be a potential poor mans GTR with the AWD and the TT V6, but how far people will push it is a whole different story.

Also, wonder if they did any type of strengthening for the 8-speed auto. The V8 has similar torque but you gotta remember the TT torque comes way down low.
Agreed on all points - especially the GTR! I was actually thinking the same thing after watching a YouTube review of the newest GTR and how they've changed over the generations. Obviously you pay for the much better performance of the GTR, but the G70 uses a similar formula, and is way cheaper.

I read a post that Tork Motorsports put out saying that the 8spd auto in the 3.3 is good up to 800ft-lbs. Though I don't know if that's any different than other platforms using the same tranny.

Time will tell what the limits are on the hardware, and like you pointed out we are already starting to see the limits of those tiny turbos! (I read on the Stinger forum that the factory turbos are Garrett GT14's, hah, I didn't know they came that small!) I wonder what will go first, I want to see just how bulletproof Hyundai made this engine. 600hp, come to think of it, is pretty dang good for factory rods - but it would make sense that they probably wouldn't go much higher than that I think. You're probably right on the money on that one.

Lastly, I didn't know you could have an ethanol sensor onboard to adjust the fuel/timing accordingly via ECU. That's awesome! That would actually make things way easier, and flexible. You could fill up on E85 just whenever you want more power, or just use regular premium whenever you are on road trips or just wanna take it easy.... Nice!
 

1FstYota

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Would love to have a GTR one day, but the aftermarket parts and pricing is well out of reach for me for now lol.

If what you say is true on 800ft lbs of torque for the 8-speed that would be a good start, except we well see really quick what will give up the ghost with that much power and torque going thru it.

The GT14s are tiny, the inlet on that turbo is probably the size of a golf ball lol. But the main issue is going to be how well the aftermarket will receive this motor and how many people are willing to take it to the extreme. If it really can be a poor mans GTR and people are willing to blow money on it I see 1000awhp probably within 5 to 6 years.

Last on the e85 yes most major aftermarket ECU systems can do Drive by wire and fuel blending. You basically take a GM ethanol sensor and adapt it to part of the fuel system. Once done tell the ECU that if there is 0 percent E in the tank do this for a base map, and then you tune the car based on 10 percent 20 percent etc... Once your done with that the ecu can behave accordingly based on the percent of alcohol in the system and adjust the rest on the fly.
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1FstYota

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Agreed on all points - especially the GTR! I was actually thinking the same thing after watching a YouTube review of the newest GTR and how they've changed over the generations. Obviously you pay for the much better performance of the GTR, but the G70 uses a similar formula, and is way cheaper.

I read a post that Tork Motorsports put out saying that the 8spd auto in the 3.3 is good up to 800ft-lbs. Though I don't know if that's any different than other platforms using the same tranny.

Time will tell what the limits are on the hardware, and like you pointed out we are already starting to see the limits of those tiny turbos! (I read on the Stinger forum that the factory turbos are Garrett GT14's, hah, I didn't know they came that small!) I wonder what will go first, I want to see just how bulletproof Hyundai made this engine. 600hp, come to think of it, is pretty dang good for factory rods - but it would make sense that they probably wouldn't go much higher than that I think. You're probably right on the money on that one.

Lastly, I didn't know you could have an ethanol sensor onboard to adjust the fuel/timing accordingly via ECU. That's awesome! That would actually make things way easier, and flexible. You could fill up on E85 just whenever you want more power, or just use regular premium whenever you are on road trips or just wanna take it easy.... Nice!
Would love to have a GTR one day, but the aftermarket parts and pricing is well out of reach for me for now lol.

If what you say is true on 800ft lbs of torque for the 8-speed that would be a good start, except we well see really quick what will give up the ghost with that much power and torque going thru it.

The GT14s are tiny, the inlet on that turbo is probably the size of a golf ball lol. But the main issue is going to be how well the aftermarket will receive this motor and how many people are willing to take it to the extreme. If it really can be a poor mans GTR and people are willing to blow money on it I see 1000awhp probably within 5 to 6 years.

Last on the e85 yes most major aftermarket ECU systems can do Drive by wire and fuel blending. You basically take a GM ethanol sensor and adapt it to part of the fuel system. Once done tell the ECU that if there is 0 percent E in the tank do this for a base map, and then you tune the car based on 10 percent 20 percent etc... Once your done with that the ecu can behave accordingly based on the percent of alcohol in the system and adjust the rest on the fly.
 

Toddasaurus

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Sorry for changing the subject from the OP. Totally my bad.

Back on topic. I've been looking at the factory (Denso) plugs for the 3.3, and it looks like the design takes after Denso's iridium TT plugs, which, in theory, should be pretty dang good.

Here is a nice little video showing some info on the iridium TT...



Personally, I have always liked Denso's plugs, especially their Iridium Power plugs, as they have some pretty innovative and cool designs. That said, I know I'll be sticking with Burger's recommendation on the colder version of the factory plug, along with a smaller gap. Even so, I'm gonna mess with it a bit. I'm planning on trimming the ground straps to reduce shadowing. I doubt it will make any real noticeable difference, but I love tinkering, and every tiny bit helps. Will plan to Dyno before/after on any big change I make once I get my G70 (ie after exhaust, IC, intake, and possible water injection).

I'm so pumped on finally having a new car that I'm excited about, it's like exploring uncharted territory!
 

1FstYota

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Sorry for changing the subject from the OP. Totally my bad.

Back on topic. I've been looking at the factory (Denso) plugs for the 3.3, and it looks like the design takes after Denso's iridium TT plugs, which, in theory, should be pretty dang good.

Here is a nice little video showing some info on the iridium TT...



Personally, I have always liked Denso's plugs, especially their Iridium Power plugs, as they have some pretty innovative and cool designs. That said, I know I'll be sticking with Burger's recommendation on the colder version of the factory plug, along with a smaller gap. Even so, I'm gonna mess with it a bit. I'm planning on trimming the ground straps to reduce shadowing. I doubt it will make any real noticeable difference, but I love tinkering, and every tiny bit helps. Will plan to Dyno before/after on any big change I make once I get my G70 (ie after exhaust, IC, intake, and possible water injection).

I'm so pumped on finally having a new car that I'm excited about, it's like exploring uncharted territory!
Denso plugs are nice, aren't the factory plugs already Denson Iridium?
 

Acpantera

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5
3
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Genesis G80 Sport
Has anyone considered indexing the plugs? I know in a naturally aspirated engine I would have set the open gap side towards the intake valve(s),to expose the spark to the intake stream, and with the ground strap towards the exhaust to shield the electrode from the heat on the exhaust side, reducing the chance of pre-ignition.
Perhaps with the spark blowing out, it might be worth it to shield the spark from the intake stream with the strap and point the open part of the gap toward the exhaust. This engine has sodium filled valve stems and heads, so maybe heat from the valves don't have that much affect on the center of the plug.
Maybe this is the reason why some folks get the blow out and some not, the plug indexing may be randomly better in some than others?
 

1FstYota

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Has anyone considered indexing the plugs? I know in a naturally aspirated engine I would have set the open gap side towards the intake valve(s),to expose the spark to the intake stream, and with the ground strap towards the exhaust to shield the electrode from the heat on the exhaust side, reducing the chance of pre-ignition.
Perhaps with the spark blowing out, it might be worth it to shield the spark from the intake stream with the strap and point the open part of the gap toward the exhaust. This engine has sodium filled valve stems and heads, so maybe heat from the valves don't have that much affect on the center of the plug.
Maybe this is the reason why some folks get the blow out and some not, the plug indexing may be randomly better in some than others?
I've had no issues with 43psi before in the supra with spark plugs gapped down. Indexing imo is a waste of time.
 

Acpantera

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I've had no issues with 43psi before in the supra with spark plugs gapped down. Indexing imo is a waste of time.
Understood, I too have had a mildly modified turbo 4cyl engine, with no such spark issues(gm LNF). Combustion chamber dynamics are finicky. I have seen plug indexing make a difference in 4cyl motorcycles, confirmed by cyl balance manometer. I have also seen Indexing cure chronic plug fouling in 2stroke engines...... Indexing sparkplugs is a thing imo. Hence my question "Has anyone tried?", if it wasn't for getting at the pita right bank, I'd experiment, but when I change the plugs it's going to be an upgrade from OEM and I will index them while I have every thing apart.....Indexing it self isn't very time consuming, its getting at the plugs that engineers bury under other components making servicing more complex and time consuming.
 
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Spanky61

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2 strokes are a different animal all together. Modern combustion chambers of any engine are uniformed. Indexing in a naturally aspirated or turbo charged multi cylinder engine is simply a waste of time. It's time consuming with shimming and does nothing for spark uniformity in newer engines.

It's an old 2 cycle tuners trick that began with single & multi cylinder 2 cycle engines, (ie Kawaski H1, H2 & KH series as well as Suzuki 2 cycles and other manufactures engines,) of which are no longer produced due too much older emission standards.

It's a needless effort in 4 cycle modern engines, even single cylinders motorcycle engines.
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Acpantera

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I was just kicking around the idea. Btw, indexing isn't just an old trick in 2 stroke engines, Evinrude specs that plugs be indexed towards the injector in their E-Tech 2 stroke engines with Ficht direct injection.
Thanks for bringing back memories too, coolest bike I ever seen, heard,and smelled was that Kawi 750 triple 2 stroker....never got a chance to ride one tho.
 

Spanky61

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Yes it was used in some marine engines, mainly Evinrude. They had problems with the vacuum oil pump. It caused plug fouling and sprayed oiled inconsistently thru the injectors. Mercury and Yamaha were the only ones who used a gear driven oil pump, so they didn't have the problem.

I didn't index in my Yamaha Hydro-Tech 175 motor either and it produced somewhere in the vicinity of 250 hp used on a Ranger 461VS I bass fished in.

I had a Kawasaki H2 750 that was modified with high compression heads, ported and polished, Denco chambers, etc. It was an outrageous fast bike with around 155 wheel hp. Even had modified dual front brakes and rear discs but it wouldn't stop very well. You could actually pull the front wheel up in every gear. Got a little disconcerting at over 100 mph sometimes. I could listen to the bike all day at idle or on pipes. Marvelous sound but the EPA took care of that finally.

You can try it but there won't be anything gained by doing so.
 
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