AWD vs RWD for Cornering

[blue92lx]

Hey everyone,

There have been some AWD vs RWD posts, almost always about the snow. I don't care about that living in the south. I want to know which is better for handling corners, and acceleration while already rolling.

Also not interested in 0-60 racing where AWD is the obvious choice, I prefer cornering performance.

I had a 3.3t RWD loaner for a bit and loved it. It was super fun to drive in corners and highway on ramps. Although I could control the car with the throttle, I also felt like the limitation was the loss of grip. With all of the TC turned off I could ride it on the edge but had to hold back just a little bit where I felt like it had more in it.

Curious if anyone has purchased the AWD specifically for cornering/track use over a RWD.

Do you feel the extra front end weight pushing the car, or do you feel the extra weight in general?

Is there any weirdness in cornering waiting on the AWD system to get going? My GV70 I've trained myself to just start getting on the throttle just before the apex of a corner because it'll engage the front wheels, then I can add throttle and the front pulls the car in when accelerating out of a corner.

Does the AWD system slow down acceleration if you're already moving (or the extra weight of it)? I have a GV70 and in comfort mode it's like you can feel it take just a bit to turn on the front wheels and then accelerate. Sport mode is better for that since the AWD system is always engaged. The RWD G70 just moved, no hesitation anywhere.

And most importantly, do you lose any fun factor with the AWD? The fact that the backend of the car was so usable in the RWD car just made me love it so much, and at the same time I feel like held it back when I wanted to really push it. I know with the AWD system you can still get the back end to move around too, just curious if you lose any of the fun with it while maybe gaining more of a cornering weapon.

 

[Soapman72]

If maximum track performance (not drag racing) is what you are after, get the RWD model and stickier tires. These cars don't product enough power to really NEED all wheel drive to pull them out of the corners.

 

[EdP]

If maximum track performance (not drag racing) is what you are after, get the RWD model and stickier tires. These cars don't product enough power to really NEED all wheel drive to pull them out of the corners.

Seems a bit funny to me. GV70 on a track must be the Senior Luxury tour. Mandatory pit stop every 10 laps to pee.

 

[Soapman72]

I agree. I was just trying to help answer the question. Another example: I have a Porsche 911 Carrera GTS. They come in AWD OR RWD. Even with 450 hp on tap, the AWD rarely provides enough benefit to offset the additional weight and the negative effect it has on the steering feel. Ive driven both on track, so I am not guessing.

Slippery conditions? Advantage AWD.
Normal sunny day dry roads? Advantage RWD

 

[blue92lx]

Seems a bit funny to me. GV70 on a track must be the Senior Luxury tour. Mandatory pit stop every 10 laps to pee.

Haven't taken my GV70 on a track, not necessarily going to with a G70 either, but I know with my GV70 I rely on the AWD to pull me through a corner when I'm really pushing the limits. The GV70 is a lot more capable than you think it is, it's kind of crazy how a 4500 lbs SUV can push itself through corners on a mountain road or on a long fast highway onramp. And so taking that data and seeing how my GV70 can do this particular curved on ramp at 75mph at the top of it and the RWD G70 is the same speed, both of them pushed to the limit of traction, it seemed to me that the G70 was limited by the RWD system where possibly an AWD G70 could also pull itself and see higher speeds around the corner.

 

[blue92lx]

Another thought is if I added a tuner and the G70 did have 425-450hp, would the RWD still be enough. Your Porsche would have a better architecture to handle that, where the G70 might possibly need some help. But hypothetical too.

 

[Cashby]

If maximum track performance (not drag racing) is what you are after, get the RWD model and stickier tires. These cars don't product enough power to really NEED all wheel drive to pull them out of the corners.

My AWD I with track wheels/tires I have to turn down a bit cause its very easy to spin out on the track. Hell daily driving if I hit it a bit to hard around a corner it will whip out on me. Then again it makes about 600 BHP and 700lbs of tq. My first G70 was RWD. After a few mods and making more power, I quickly traded for AWD. RWD was a death trap with that TQ.

Even when I do my 1/4 runs, i turn down boost 3-4 psi in 1st gear and 2psi in second gear because I spin.

 

[blue92lx]

My AWD I with track wheels/tires I have to turn down a bit cause its very easy to spin out on the track. Hell daily driving if I hit it a bit to hard around a corner it will whip out on me. Then again it makes about 600 BHP and 700lbs of tq. My first G70 was RWD. After a few mods and making more power, I quickly traded for AWD. RWD was a death trap with that TQ.

Even when I do my 1/4 runs, i turn down boost 3-4 psi in 1st gear and 2psi in second gear because I spin.

Yeah 600hp may be a bit too much lol. I want to keep it my only car so quiet and comfortable, but at max maybe a jb4 tuner to 425-450hp. I don't see myself going past that and probably more towards the 425hp if anything.

 

[Cashby]

Yeah 600hp may be a bit too much lol. I want to keep it my only car so quiet and comfortable, but at max maybe a jb4 tuner to 425-450hp. I don't see myself going past that and probably more towards the 425hp if anything.

That's the best part. I am on 100% stock exhaust. The speed doesn't match the sound at all. It shocks a lot of people. haha.

I personally prefer AWD on the track. Probably because for 20 years thats what I have used. RWD is a ton of fun though on a proper car with lower HP. There is a reason a Miata can lap some pretty quick cars.

 

[Volfy]

When the car is taken through a turn at or near its limits, the available traction in the tires are what determines how well the turn is taken. Properly done, the turn should start out with ALL tire traction devoted to braking diving into the turn. As you tip into the turn and begin to feed in steering angle, you start to roll off the brakes to give more and more of the tire traction to combat cornering forces, until 100% of the tire traction is devoted to cornering. HP matter none in these stages, as throttle is not used through this process.

When you hit the apex, that's when you begin rolling in the throttle to accelerate out of the corner. Even then, it should be a smooth transition from a 100:0 ratio of available traction used for cornering/acceleration to 0:100. This process is the same, regardless of how much HP the car has. If you're smoking your tires, you're doing it wrong. Unless, of course, you are into stupid **** like drifting.

The only way AWD/RWD (or FWD) matter in all of this is in the power delivery when the car is undergoing weight transfer powering out of the corner. Also influencing, to a lesser extent, is the weight of the car, and the weight balance front to rear.

Performance driving is a finesse sport. The car is but a tool. It is far less important what tool you have, than how well you can use that tool.

If this is a daily driver, I would pick AWD/RWD based on the needs your geographical area. Before you can have fun with the car, it needs to take you through the mundane daily grind... and do that well. Once that choice is made, then learn its idiosyncrasies so you can drive it well.

Realistically, for performance driving, I'd worry more about whether the car comes with an LSD. Especially with the V6.

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[blue92lx]

When the car is taken through a turn at or near its limits, the available traction in the tires are what determines how well the turn is taken. Properly done, the turn should start out with ALL tire traction devoted to braking diving into the turn. As you tip into the turn and begin to feed in steering angle, you start to roll off the brakes to give more and more of the tire traction to combat cornering forces, until 100% of the tire traction is devoted to cornering. HP matter none in these stages, as throttle is not used through this process.

When you hit the apex, that's when you begin rolling in the throttle to accelerate out of the corner. Even then, it should be a smooth transition from a 100:0 ratio of available traction used for cornering/acceleration to 0:100. This process is the same, regardless of how much HP the car has. If you're smoking your tires, you're doing it wrong. Unless, of course, you are into stupid **** like drifting.

The only way AWD/RWD (or FWD) matter in all of this is in the power delivery when the car is undergoing weight transfer powering out of the corner. Also influencing, to a lesser extent, is the weight of the car, and the weight balance front to rear.

Performance driving is a finesse sport. The car is but a tool. It is far less important what tool you have, than how well you can use that tool.

If this is a daily driver, I would pick AWD/RWD based on the needs your geographical area. Before you can have fun with the car, it needs to take you through the mundane daily grind... and do that well. Once that choice is made, then learn its idiosyncrasies so you can drive it well.

Realistically, for performance driving, I'd worry more about whether the car comes with an LSD. Especially with the V6.

To the tire traction, correct to a point. When you're on the edge of traction and you're in a RWD car and you add more gas the back end is going to start coming around and then you spin the car, or end up drifting it around the corner. In an AWD car you can use the front wheels to prevent that while also increasing speed while the tires are on the edge of traction. I can prove that point in my GV70, where the tires are starting to hurt, making a bunch of noise because they're on the edge of traction (also the stock all season tires that make a lot of noise), and then I give it more gas at the end of the corner and even though the tires are barely holding on the front end will start to pull the car through the corner, which seems completely counter intuitive to give it more gas when the tires are barely holding on, but it works.. In the RWD G70 I couldn't do that, if I started giving it more gas in the same scenario the back end just starts to come around.

I'm fully aware of trail braking, slip angle in the corner, making sure the nose is pointed into the corner with the back end just on the edge of coming around, etc. And I'm fully aware that the AWD in the GV70 can be used to pull the car. It's the same with driving a FWD car, when you start to lose traction you can add aceleration and use the front wheels to pull the car, which I've also experienced in my friend's decked out racing Civic. Tires are about to break loose, he adds gas, car pulls harder into the corner. It's just a fine line of when too much is too much.

 

[Volfy]

To the tire traction, correct to a point. When you're on the edge of traction and you're in a RWD car and you add more gas the back end is going to start coming around and then you spin the car, or end up drifting it around the corner. In an AWD car you can use the front wheels to prevent that while also increasing speed while the tires are on the edge of traction.

The very definition of limits of tractions means nearly 100% of the available traction is being used up. If so, any throttle application at that point will not help, regardless of AWD/RWD/FWD. An AWD system can only send power to where there is available traction but under-utilized. And if that is the case, you car is not "on the edge of traction".

If my car maxed out traction at the rear before it maxed out the front... either the car is set up poorly for track duty, so it oversteers excessively. Or I did not manage my weight transfer properly and just plain ham-fisted the turn. The is a driver error bet remedied by honing my skills, not by relying on a different drivetrain as a crutch to overcome my own deficiency.

I can prove that point in my GV70, where the tires are starting to hurt, making a bunch of noise because they're on the edge of traction (also the stock all season tires that make a lot of noise), and then I give it more gas at the end of the corner and even though the tires are barely holding on the front end will start to pull the car through the corner, which seems completely counter intuitive to give it more gas when the tires are barely holding on, but it works..

Accelerating out of a turn, weight naturally transferred to the rear, so that reduces available traction over your front wheels and increase traction over your rear wheels. I doubt your GV70 would be vectoring more torque to the front. What you think happened isn't always actually what happened, especially if doesn't jive with physics.

Also, just because your A/S tires are making noise doesn't mean they are at their limits. When pushed, All-Season tires typically have a very gradual and forgiving slip angle curve. The squealing is purposely baked into the tire design to give the driver plenty of warning to back off, before the tire actually reach their limits of adhesion. Even then, they tend to break rather gently, again... by design. That's great for safety in normal driving, but the same forgiving nature also make their feedback rather vague and more difficult to read what the car is doing.

In the RWD G70 I couldn't do that, if I started giving it more gas in the same scenario the back end just starts to come around.

That's a common newbie mistake. As the old adage goes: "slow is smooth... smooth is fast". Abrupt control input can destabilize any car of any drivetrain type. Brake and throttle transitions are best done smoothly. If that means slowing you input command to give time for the chassis time to react under control, and in turn enough time for the driver to read the car's attitude, lap time will improve... certainly better than ham-fisting it all over the place.

I'm fully aware of trail braking, slip angle in the corner, making sure the nose is pointed into the corner with the back end just on the edge of coming around, etc. And I'm fully aware that the AWD in the GV70 can be used to pull the car. It's the same with driving a FWD car, when you start to lose traction you can add aceleration and use the front wheels to pull the car, which I've also experienced in my friend's decked out racing Civic. Tires are about to break loose, he adds gas, car pulls harder into the corner. It's just a fine line of when too much is too much.

Where AWD shines is in normal driving conditions over slippery road surfaces, where available traction simply varies from end to end and wheel to wheel all the time. In such cases, power can be vectored to where it can be put down.

On the track, AWD/RWD/FWD all have their pros and cons. One isn't inherently better overall or more fun to drive. Unless you progress up to a fairly high level of proficiency, the slowest part of the whole equation is still the lump of noodles inside the driver's helmet. Improve on that, and you'll be faster in any car.

 

[blue92lx]

You're not understanding what I'm saying here clearly, and you think im a newbie, so I'm going to stop here.

I'll just reiterate the fact that my 4500 lbs GV70 is apparently just as much sports car as the G70 RWD I drove. got it.

 

[Jlapaglia]

While I can’t provide an answer of my own. See the link for the results of testing performed by Motortend. AWD had slighter higher g rating for the figure 8 test but probably not real world noticeable since it still had the same time. I think the figure 8 and lateral acceleration testing is what you’re looking for.

Genesis G70 is the 2019 MotorTrend Car of the Year

The 2019 Genesis G70 is smooth, quiet, fast, upscale, nimble, good-looking, and a great value.

www.motortrend.com

 

[blue92lx]

While I can’t provide an answer of my own. See the link for the results of testing performed by Motortend. AWD had slighter higher g rating for the figure 8 test but probably not real world noticeable since it still had the same time. I think the figure 8 and lateral acceleration testing is what you’re looking for.

Genesis G70 is the 2019 MotorTrend Car of the Year

The 2019 Genesis G70 is smooth, quiet, fast, upscale, nimble, good-looking, and a great value.

www.motortrend.com

And the 45mph passing time was the same which I was curious about. So the weight and drivetrain doesn't effect speed while rolling, weirdly enough a slower 0-60 which is where the AWD should shine typically, probably from the added weight.

 

[Volfy]

You're not understanding what I'm saying here clearly, and you think im a newbie, so I'm going to stop here.

It's unfortunate that you're taking that as a disparaging remark. I am simply referring to the fact that one of the very first lessons taught - both in 4wheel and 2wheel track days I've attended - is the concept of linking steering input and throttle/brake input with a "slinky". The idea is that when making max use of available tire traction, you should only increase one when you reduce the other. So...

If lateral acceleration is taking all available traction, you should not feed in throttle, until you start relaxing the steering input back towards going straight. Even then, the amount of increasing throttle should be proportional to amount of decreasing steering input.

Likewise, if you are threshold braking into a turn, you should not feed in steering input to initiate turn-in, until you start relax the brake pedal.

This is so fundamental, it's basically Performance Driving 101 stuff.

What you said about inducing a spinout by feeding in power with a RWD is precisely what newbies are taught not to do. No self-respecting instructor will tell you any different, just because you are driving an AWD.

I'll just reiterate the fact that my 4500 lbs GV70 is apparently just as much sports car as the G70 RWD I drove. got it.

Well. That you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[blue92lx]

It's unfortunate that you're taking that as a disparaging remark. I am simply referring to the fact that one of the very first lessons taught - both in 4wheel and 2wheel track days I've attended - is the concept of linking steering input and throttle/brake input with a "slinky". The idea is that when making max use of available tire traction, you should only increase one when you reduce the other. So...

If lateral acceleration is taking all available traction, you should not feed in throttle, until you start relaxing the steering input back towards going straight. Even then, the amount of increasing throttle should be proportional to amount of decreasing steering input.

Likewise, if you are threshold braking into a turn, you should not feed in steering input to initiate turn-in, until you start relax the brake pedal.

This is so fundamental, it's basically Performance Driving 101 stuff.

What you said about inducing a spinout by feeding in power with a RWD is precisely what newbies are taught not to do. No self-respecting instructor will tell you any different, just because you are driving an AWD.


Well. That you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'll put it to you this way, since you think you're "obligated to teach a newbie how to drive" apparently.

I didn't have to go to track day lessons to already know everything you've typed here, I already know about literally everything you've said. That's why I said you're not understand what I'm saying.

I also said the GV70 handles just as well as the G70 because you don't understand what I'm saying. It was a sarcastic remark and you took it seriously.

Do us both a favor and stop trying to learn me something, I don't need it.

Just FYI, if you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never spun the car. What I said was the car was already at the limit of traction to where if i had added more throttle input it would have spun.

So please take your "lessons" somewhere else, because you're right, you're talking driving lessons 101 and I'm way beyond that already.

 

[Volfy]

I'll put it to you this way, since you think you're "obligated to teach a newbie how to drive" apparently.

I didn't have to go to track day lessons to already know everything you've typed here, I already know about literally everything you've said. That's why I said you're not understand what I'm saying.

I also said the GV70 handles just as well as the G70 because you don't understand what I'm saying. It was a sarcastic remark and you took it seriously.

Do us both a favor and stop trying to learn me something, I don't need it.

Just FYI, if you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never spun the car. What I said was the car was already at the limit of traction to where if i had added more throttle input it would have spun.

So please take your "lessons" somewhere else, because you're right, you're talking driving lessons 101 and I'm way beyond that already.

So... are you being sarcastic there? Or are you really taking that much offense to something that doesn't need to be?

 

[Truck Norris]

f$%k me.

Reading @Volfy 's comments was incredibly educational here (for me) and then you have OP here reacting like a jackass.

"Learn me something"? WTF is going on OP. You do need to learn a few things.... Stick with the GV70 and save us all the pain posting on the forum, dick.

 

[blue92lx]

He's not reading my posts, acting like he needs to educate me without knowing literally anything about me, as I said I already know everything he's trying to " educate" me on, so his posts are essentially useless. On top of the fact that he didn't actually read what I wrote. He's assuming I spun the car, I never did or said I did, and then proceeds to tell me how to drive because he took a couple of track day lessons. So I guess that makes him superior to what I know about driving.

But OK, I'm wrong here. Have fun everyone.