"Check engine Light" on after oil change

rmwweb

Registered Member
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Ottawa, Ontario
Don't know if this has been addressed before - I did a search but couldn't find anything quite like what happened to me today.

I took my 2009 V6 Sedan in for the 54,000 Km service which is basically just an oil change. Also had the wheels aligned as the car had developed a bit of a pull to the left.

So I pick the car up at the end of the day and am delighted to discover that the wheel alignment was covered under the warranty, especially since the service reps had been trying to get me to do an alignment for only $99.00 since the 42km service. I resisted then because at the time the car was running like it was on rails and quite honestly my experience with Hyundai service is scary at best.

Now to the real story that I am wondering if anyone else has experienced. About 3 or 4 Km from the dealership, as I came to a stop in traffic, I noticed a subtle shake in the steering wheel - strange since it was only noticable when I was stopped so it couldn't be from the alignment. A couple more Km's down the road and I arrive at my first stop. Park the car and sit there with transmission in Park, engine idling and the steering wheel is visibly shaking back and forth. Hmmm not good I'm thinking.

One hour later, come out and head for home. Steering wheel still shaking but otherwise nothing significant, another 3 or 4 Km's and the car shudders a bit while accellerating. I notice that the engine light has just come on and is flashing. Now the car is running noticably rough at about 80 kph. I'm about 5 km from home and the dealership is another 3 km past home so I decide to stop at home. As I'm pulling into my driveway the car is sputtering but still running, check engine light is on steady now.

Since 1 July is Canada day the service department is closed until Monday so I decide to try and get the car to the dealership before they close on Thursday night. Get to the first red light and look in the mirror to see clouds of white "smoke" coming from the exhaust. 2 km's to the dealership and wondering if I should keep going or shut it down. Decide to keep going since the only light that is on is the "check engine" light and the owner's manual (which I reviewed when I stopped at home) indicates that it is mostly about emission problems and is a caution light not a warning light.

Get to the dealership - they're not happy to see me because they are closing in 45 minutes for the long weekend and since they only did an oil change it is probably just a coincidence that this happened right after the service. I'm less happy than they are so we agree that they'll look at it now. Thirty minutes later they happily advise me that the problem was that the technician had overfilled the oil by half a litre and after draining some oil everything is now fine and I'm good to go - no charge! No kidding! (Guess it wasn't a coincidence after all.) I'm having trouble believing that a small amount of extra oil would cause this, but...

Head for home, the engine is running smoothly, the check engine light is out and the smoke seems to be dissipating. Go a bit past home to see what will happen and yes so far so good. By the time I get home everything seems pretty much normal.

So, after my long winded story, the question is: has anyone else had a similar experience? Second question is what kind of odds do I have of making it through til Monday without further trouble?

Thanks for any input you might have.

RW
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
They overfilled by a lot more than half a liter. It is possible (and likely under the circumstances) that they did not even drain it before adding the new oil (or maybe they drained it but added new the oil twice?). The fact that said "half liter" is pretty much proof that that made a major mistake and are not going to admit what they did.

Don't know if you will have any short term trouble, but I would keep an eye out for oil leaks in the engine bay, since putting that much oil in an engine can cause oil pressure to sky-rocket and seals to start leaking.
 

mikec

Registered Member
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SoCal
I was scared reading your story... until the resolution. When I read the check engine light was flashing... and you continued to drive... that made me think "uh-oh." When the light is flashing, that's a serious - stop the engine ASAP - type of issue. When it's on solid, it's okay to continue driving a short distance. Yes, most "check engine" lights are due to minor emissions problems but not all. The original intent of the "check engine" was in fact emissions problems only... but these days most cars monitor a lot more than just emissions stuff. Flashing that light is the general signal for "stop NOW!" type of problems - like NO OIL. That was my fear while reading half-way through your story... then you mentioned the smoke. Normally burning oil leads to a gray smoke. Pure white smoke is generally coolant - i.e. leaking gaskets, cracked head(s), cracked block, etc ==> often very bad news. Then your post finished with a much happier ending than I was expecting.

Besides monitoring your engine for oil leaks - and checking the oil level on the dipstick every few days - also monitor the radiator water level WHEN THE ENGINE IS STONE-COLD for safety. If the water level is dropping, get back to the dealer - they owe you a "shortblock" assembly - basically the mechanical parts of the whole engine.

Running too much oil causes the pistons & crankshaft to stir the oil in the pan a lot... filling it with tiny air bubbles so it expands. As it expands, it gets further and further into the crank & pistons making the problem worse. Eventually the whole volume between the normal oil pan level and the crankshaft is full of foamy oil - and it's now pressuring itself thanks to the air bubbles - so it shoves past the piston rings leading to exhaust smoke. That's probably what happened to your car. I'd think though just a half-quart of excess oil wouldn't cause such problems... as Mark_888 posted the dealer probably had much more than that in there. Elsewhere on this forum there is a LONG thread about "how much oil does the V6 sedan need at oil changes?" The owners manual and other sources differ on the correct quantity so many V6 owners are just filling until the dipstick says "full." Maybe the dealer used the "book" value which might be a full quart too high?

mike c.
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
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Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Elsewhere on this forum there is a LONG thread about "how much oil does the V6 sedan need at oil changes?" The owners manual and other sources differ on the correct quantity so many V6 owners are just filling until the dipstick says "full." Maybe the dealer used the "book" value which might be a full quart too high?
As someone who posted frequently about the discrepancy between the dipstick reading and what the Owner's Manual says is the correct refill amount (V6 only), I can tell you that even being 1 quart high will not cause the kind of symptoms on the Genesis 3.8 V6 as reported by rmwweb. Either they had way too much oil in there (maybe double the amount), or maybe they had no oil in there (which is one option that I originally failed to consider).

After thinking about it, it is conceivable that they may have forgotten to add any oil to the crankcase (which has been known to happen during oil changes). In fact, this is a more likely scenario than double the oil in the crankcase, based on reading the experiences of many car owners in auto forums over the years. However, I am not sure about whether the symptoms for rmwweb's car suggest too much or not enough oil. If it really was not enough oil, then some permanent damage probably was done.
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PSL

Registered Member
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6
NC
As someone who posted frequently about the discrepancy between the dipstick reading and what the Owner's Manual says is the correct refill amount (V6 only), I can tell you that even being 1 quart high will not cause the kind of symptoms on the Genesis 3.8 V6 as reported by rmwweb. Either they had way too much oil in there (maybe double the amount), or maybe they had no oil in there (which is one option that I originally failed to consider).

After thinking about it, it is conceivable that they may have forgotten to add any oil to the crankcase (which has been known to happen during oil changes). In fact, this is a more likely scenario than double the oil in the crankcase, based on reading the experiences of many car owners in auto forums over the years. However, I am not sure about whether the symptoms for rmwweb's car suggest too much or not enough oil. If it really was not enough oil, then some permanent damage probably was done.
If it had no oil, the temp would have run up quickly, I think.

rmwweb, did you notice the engine temperature while all that was going on?
 

NYCGPS

Getting familiar with the group...
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They overfilled your Engine by a LOT.

I don't know how this vacuum hose route around as I don't have a Genesis yet. but all ICE will have vacuum hose route from the oil filter tube to the intake, it's just there to absorb/pull engine oil fumes into combustion chamber to burn. (lower emission, cuz you can't just release those fumes into the atmosphere)

what happen was if you over filled by a lot, instead of pulling just fumes, it will pull Engine oil straight into your intake and goes straight into your engine directly, which result in smoke and rough idle. it won't kill your engine, but it will foul spark plugs by a bit.

You didn't notice it at first because Engine oil expands when heated, so the moment you drive it out of the dealership everything might seem fine. but after a while as the engine oil warms up, it expands and your intake is "drinking" oil the whole time ...

if I were you, I will take the intake apart, and check, see if there were any signs of oil, look at the throttle plates and everywhere. if you see any signs of oil (which is very likely) bring it back and tell them to clean it. cuz if you leave it like that, it accumulates dirt and it's gonna gum your throttle body someday and mess it up.
 

rmwweb

Registered Member
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16
Ottawa, Ontario
If it had no oil, the temp would have run up quickly, I think.

rmwweb, did you notice the engine temperature while all that was going on?
No, other than the check engine light, and the rough running, there were no other indications of trouble. Temperature remained the same as usual and no other lights came on at any point.

I agree with the comments that an extra half litre of oil wouldn't cause this kind of trouble and given the history of marginal work done by both of the Hyundai dealers I've been to, either of the possiblities offered by Mark 888 seem possible. Will keep my eyes on things over the next few weeks and see what happens. I guess the good news is that the car is on a lease and I've had all the maintenance done by hyundai.

RW
 

NYCGPS

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the car is on a lease? then I guess you have nothing to worry about ! (good luck to whoever gonna buy the car later)
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mdaecher

Registered Member
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0
Pennsylvania
Okay - so I just took my 'new' (used) 2009 4.6 into my local Hyundai dealer for my first oil change and dealer service dept. experience.

Dropped car off w/o appt. - they treated me very nicely as a Genesis owner. also asked them to check trunk fob antenna as I could not unlock trunk even with fob in hand (yes, I have the valet switch in correct position!).

They called me to tell me oil chnage was done and they could not duplicate trunk issue. I told them step by step - lock car and walk up to trunk with fob and try to open - viola, they duplicated problem (ruh roh). I got the impresion from that they weren't too familiar with the model, but how could they not be? After all, that's exactly why I took it to them for the oil change and not Valvoline.

Anyway, got car back while they ordered replacement antenna (I hope they checked first to make sure it just wasn't disconnected somehow).
Next day, check engine light on and off intermittently, with rough idle. Three days later, check engine light on constantly, rough idle.

Have lots of out of state driving to do in next couple days, so called Hyundai dealer and asked if they can look at it today - they are full. I say, "Can you at least plug in the diagnostic reader to make sure it's nothing serious and double check oil level [didn't tell him I suspect they put too much in from my research here] before I drive hours away for a few days?" He says "as long as it's not blinking, it's okay to drive". To which I say, "I'm worried about it changing halfway through my trip". He's supposed to call me back....we'll see
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Have lots of out of state driving to do in next couple days, so called Hyundai dealer and asked if they can look at it today - they are full. I say, "Can you at least plug in the diagnostic reader to make sure it's nothing serious and double check oil level [didn't tell him I suspect they put too much in from my research here] before I drive hours away for a few days?" He says "as long as it's not blinking, it's okay to drive". To which I say, "I'm worried about it changing halfway through my trip". He's supposed to call me back....we'll see
You might want to check the oil level yourself.
 

mdaecher

Registered Member
25
0
0
Pennsylvania
So, I guess I just check the dipstick to see if it's way over the line? I don't have time much to be messing around with it today and there's only one other area dealership.

Is there something unusual about the oil capacity in the Genesis - like it takes less oil than most Hyundai engines (Sonata, etc)? Just seem starnge that folks on this forum have had this issue when being serviced by dealers who should know this in and out...
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PSL

Registered Member
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6
NC
So, I guess I just check the dipstick to see if it's way over the line? I don't have time much to be messing around with it today and there's only one other area dealership.

Is there something unusual about the oil capacity in the Genesis - like it takes less oil than most Hyundai engines (Sonata, etc)? Just seem strange that folks on this forum have had this issue when being serviced by dealers who should know this in and out...
Engine off and car on relatively flat ground. Pull the dipstick wipe it off with a rag or paper towel, stick it back in and pull it again to see where the oil level is on the dipstick. It should be at the full mark, and not much past if at all.

I agree, these type dealer issues are indeed strange.
 

mdaecher

Registered Member
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Pennsylvania
Oil level seems to be okay. Ranged from between L and F dots on dipstick to just above Full dot.

Double checked gas cap.

Dealer called bak - appt early in the am before I head off for a road trip. Will report results.
 

rmwweb

Registered Member
112
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16
Ottawa, Ontario
Update from OP:

Well so far so good with my car since Thursday evening. A few traces of white-ish smoke on the first few starts after a couple of short trips. The oil quantity is about where it has always been - slightly higher than the full mark on the dipstick. No signs of any oil leaks or anything unusual.

Went back to the dealership late Monday afternoon and spoke with the service manager. I described what had happened and when I mentioned what his service rep had said about the problem being caused by the oil being overfilled by a half litre he couldn't hide his surprise. We agreed that this was an unlikely story at best. He then got onto the computer and discovered that the technician who looked at the car when I brought it back had found an error code that said something about a "random misfire". Since the tech wasn't in on Monday the service manager said that he would talk with him on Tuesday and call me with more details. I told him that I wanted a written description of what had actually been found and what had been done to correct the real problem. If they want to stick with the half litre overfill story fine but put it in writing. The SM assured me that he would call me on Tuesday with an explanation.

It is now 10:30pm on Tuesday and I'm still waiting. Anybody want to take bets on which Tuesday he may have meant?

The sad thing is that like many on this forum, I have had serious issues with the suspension on my '09 sedan but over time it has either softened or we've gotten used to it - it still rattles my teeth every now and then or just annoys the crap out of me at random moments - but I was starting to entertain thoughts of replacing my '09 model with a 2012 or possibly a 2013 when my lease ends in Oct 2012. Sadly the unbelievably bad service offered by Hyundai and what appears to be complete indifference by Hyundai Canada to any complaints has me re-thinking that idea.

Like many on this forum, I love the car, I just can't handle anything else about the Hyundai experience.

One thought I've had to make this all worthwhile is to pitch a new show to the TV networks. It would be called "We'll say anything" and will star Hyundai sales people / service reps/managers who are trying to make a sale or getting some poor schmuck to have something done to their car or explain what was done to the car. I can't decide though if it should be a game show, a sit com or a tragedy. Any thoughts?

RW
 

NYCGPS

Getting familiar with the group...
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^ People call them "Stealership" for a reason ...

It's really hard to find a good dealership these days --- they all want cash, they all treat customers like they don't know shit, they don't want any warranty work, they want to sell you as much useless crap as they can. Biggest problem is, when a real problem comes up, they usually just try to follow the Service manual and hope it can solve the issue ---- they never ever try to figure the problem out on their own.

many times when the service manual can't help them, they just pull random bs and hope the problem does not come back. phew, money for them, warranty or cash, but customer still end up with a broken car.

This is not a Hyundai issue, it happens to every single brand out there.

So far I had some luck with Mazda, but that's after I've been thru 5 bad dealerships in NYC before I found a good one in Jersey.

Honda was ok to me. Lexus was alright I've been there couple of times with my friends. Some friend had horrible experience in Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Even Porsche

I don't know about Hyundai, I hope that when I finally get my Genesis ... *sigh*
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Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Update from OP:

Well so far so good with my car since Thursday evening. A few traces of white-ish smoke on the first few starts after a couple of short trips. The oil quantity is about where it has always been - slightly higher than the full mark on the dipstick. No signs of any oil leaks or anything unusual.

Went back to the dealership late Monday afternoon and spoke with the service manager. I described what had happened and when I mentioned what his service rep had said about the problem being caused by the oil being overfilled by a half litre he couldn't hide his surprise. We agreed that this was an unlikely story at best. He then got onto the computer and discovered that the technician who looked at the car when I brought it back had found an error code that said something about a "random misfire". Since the tech wasn't in on Monday the service manager said that he would talk with him on Tuesday and call me with more details. I told him that I wanted a written description of what had actually been found and what had been done to correct the real problem. If they want to stick with the half litre overfill story fine but put it in writing. The SM assured me that he would call me on Tuesday with an explanation.

It is now 10:30pm on Tuesday and I'm still waiting. Anybody want to take bets on which Tuesday he may have meant?

The sad thing is that like many on this forum, I have had serious issues with the suspension on my '09 sedan but over time it has either softened or we've gotten used to it - it still rattles my teeth every now and then or just annoys the crap out of me at random moments - but I was starting to entertain thoughts of replacing my '09 model with a 2012 or possibly a 2013 when my lease ends in Oct 2012. Sadly the unbelievably bad service offered by Hyundai and what appears to be complete indifference by Hyundai Canada to any complaints has me re-thinking that idea.

Like many on this forum, I love the car, I just can't handle anything else about the Hyundai experience.

One thought I've had to make this all worthwhile is to pitch a new show to the TV networks. It would be called "We'll say anything" and will star Hyundai sales people / service reps/managers who are trying to make a sale or getting some poor schmuck to have something done to their car or explain what was done to the car. I can't decide though if it should be a game show, a sit com or a tragedy. Any thoughts?

RW
My suspicion is that the problem is oil related, but if they put way too much in, or way too little, they are not going to admit it.

I upgraded my 2009 suspension to 2010 specs and it was a noticeable improvement. You can "probably" upgrade your 2009 to the 2012 suspension as soon as the 2012 parts lists are available and someone can figure out what parts to change out. I paid about $1650 (parts and labor) to have my suspension upgraded, which included 4 new springs, 4 new shocks/struts, and new rear stabilizer. Normally that might be worth it, but if you think there might have been permanent engine damage due to the "oil" fiasco, then maybe not buying the car at end of lease term is best way to go.

As far as Hyundai service goes, I think they are trying to upgrade the service now that they have the Genesis and Equus, but the fundamental problem (IMO) is that Hyundai dealers have typically sold to people who could not afford a Honda or Toyota, and Hyundai dealers have traditionally served less sophisticated buyers who were very price conscious. In many cases, Hyundai dealer service personnel are paid less than some other makes on average (I realize there are some exceptions), and that is sometimes reflected in the quality of service. As I mentioned in another thread, I always do my own oil changes, partly for that reason.
 

mdaecher

Registered Member
25
0
0
Pennsylvania
Follow up:

After showing up and waiting for them to unlock doors, re-iterating my concern w/check engine light and need to drive a lot today through Friday, dealer service rep says, "so you don;t have an appt?". My reply - "Talked to someone yesterday who told me to bring it in first thing for quick diagnostic check - I've only been experiencing thsi issue since you serviced my car late last week"

They took it in and told me there were four random codes spit out that all basically pointed to an ECM updgrade - which they did. I was in a big hurry, so they promised to mail the paperwork - hopefully that will have the codes on it so I can list them here.

CE light is off and no issues driving a couple hundred miles today.

PS - bought an I-Pod cable while waiting - mistake. takes too long to scroll through artists using the cable interface. Waste of $32
 

rmwweb

Registered Member
112
0
16
Ottawa, Ontario
Follow up:

...
They took it in and told me there were four random codes spit out that all basically pointed to an ECM updgrade - which they did. I was in a big hurry, so they promised to mail the paperwork - hopefully that will have the codes on it so I can list them here.

CE light is off and no issues driving a couple hundred miles today.

Glad to hear that you've had no further issues with your car either. Mine seems to be running fine as well, but I'm still waiting to hear from my service manager as to what they actually found with my car. My guess is that it will take a few more trips to the dealership to convince them that I actually expect some sort of resolution to this issue. It is really a shame that so many dealerships treat their clients like trash. Please do let us know what codes your service rep comes up with and i will do the same.

Over the years (too many to count I'm afraid) I've had plenty of experience dealing with slimy dealership service departments but my last two cars were a 93 Camry and a 99 Acura TL. With the Camry, the dealership's service department was actually about a 14 on a scale of 1 to 10(with 10 being as good as you can expect). I actually had to get forceful with them to let me spend money on the car!! With the Acura it was about a 9, so I guess I got spoiled by them over the years.

RW
 

mdaecher

Registered Member
25
0
0
Pennsylvania
Update on codes: got my paperwork -

"Found Codes" = P0300, P0301, P0303, P0304 & P0305

Work states = "Found ECM upgrade for random misfire, reprogrammed ECM. ECM Upgrade per Bulletin 10-FL-015

Genesis running fine for now. CEL off and no more rough idling
 
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