(forum) needs a definitive thread on bras, ceramic, waxing, etc.

[mdaecher]

So, I just picked up a white 2019 G80 Sport. Plan to keep this about three years. I'd like to put some protection on to help with cleaning and guard against paint swirls if I go to an automatic car wash.

There are several threes with debates and varying experiences on bras/films vs. ceramic coating. I'm trying to decide what to do so I can have it addressed immediately.

Leaning toward some ceramic coating, maybe just because it seems sexier, but it seems products and experiences vary. Accordingly, I'm going to lay out what I'm looking for, and will await opinions...

1) Plan to have the car about 3 years; willing to spend $, but do not want to have to reapply

2) Plan to have chosen solution professionally applied

3) would spec a reputable film or coating (3M, ceramic Pro, etc.)

For ceramics, I've only looked at Ceramic Pro in any detail. Seems my local shop has have multiple "packages" from a basic top/light coat (bronze) to a single-layer undercoat, followed but the same topcoat (silver). The Gold has multiple under-layers, followed by the top coat (Gold). Each application has varying 'warranties" (1/5/Life, respectively).

Can everyone with practical experience chime in and what they have/have had and their experiences?

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

I did ceramic coating on my 2011 Genesis 3.8 and partial film on my 2018 G80 Sport (everything in front of A-pillar, door handles and side mirrors and trunk lip) and endorse both products. I've had bra's on cars but deem them unacceptable. The paint under the bra will not fade/age same as rest of car. They collect dirt at the edges. They will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. They are fugly IMO.


Which product is better for what criteria IMO ....
Appearance: Ceramic coating
It is near impossible to hide the edges of the film on 100% of the vehicle.
The paint looks nearly the same whether filmed or ceramic coated.

Protection: Film
Film will protect from "small" road debris. Some films are even self healing. Have a reasonable expectation though, as this is not Kevlar/bullet resistant material. Film is almost impervious to swirl marks in paint/finish.

Cost: Ceramic coating
Film is 2->3 times the cost of ceramic coating.

Care: Ceramic coating
For optimum appearance ...
Ceramic coating does need to continue being waxed occasionally, but less often than non-ceramiced car.
The film requires cleaning and sealing periodically. Film does not/should not be waxed.


Consider a mixed hybrid solution. Use film where most abuse occurs (front bumper, hood, rocker panels, door handles, side mirrors, A-Pillar etc.) and ceramic coating on remaining surfaces. It's a waste of money to put film on top of ceramic coating.

The appearance and durability of the ceramic coating/film is highly dependent on the skill of the installer and quality of the product. Do your research before choosing installer/product. Ensure or pay to have the body paint detailed to remove any imperfections before applying coating/film.

Theoretically the film can be removed, but I wouldn't want to do that tedious/time consuming job.

Installation of the film on the 2018 G80 Sport front bumper is difficult due to sharp edges/angles on the Sport models bumper. I took mine back twice due to film bubble forming in tight places on the lower bumper.

There are numerous threads on this topic in the forum already.
Clear bra and seams?
Ceramic Sealant

 

[Bourbonncigars]

help with cleaning and guard against paint swirls if I go to an automatic car wash.

As a car paint enthusiast and someone who absolutely loves handwashing, waxes, detailing, etc., I cringe when automatic car washes come into the discussion. Especially with cars as beautiful as these. But I know not everyone enjoys or has the time and location for that. They're just so bad for paint.

 

[iamaronman]

Just my two cents:

• Unless you are looking to go to a touchless automatic carwash, ceramic coating may be a waste. The ones with the spinning wash rags have all sorts of contaminants that make it like fine grit sandpaper. Don't think ceramic will fully protect against that.
• Either option will easily last a three year time frame. Most ceramic coatings I have seen are warrantied for 2 years (some I've seen for 10 years, but probably more expensive), but if you take care of it, they last a long time.
• Like bubbaG80Sport said, film is significantly more expensive. But you also have more options like getting a matte film. That would require you to do the entire car though ($$$).

Here is my personal experience. What I have now:

• 2019 G80 Sport
• Suntek paint protection film full front coverage (hood, front bumper, front fenders, mirrors)
• The grill itself is not film wrapped, only the body panels
• Modesta ceramic coating on entire car (minus wheels, does include grill)
• I intend to keep the car for several years
• I hand wash my own cars

I have previously done the film + ceramic setup before on previous cars. Here are my reasons/experiences:

Paint Protection Film

• The film has prevented numerous dents and dings from rock chips that ceramic coating will not protect against. This is pretty much the only reason, but its a pretty big reason to me.
• I currently have a Mazda as well without any film or ceramic coating. Within 2-3 months of ownership, it already had numerous dings/paint scratches in the bumper and hood from rocks and large bugs.
• My G80 has the film edge wrapped meaning they wrap as much of the edge as possible. There is minimal exposure of the actual body panel. Technically dirt could collect at the edges of the film, but since that is minimized with edge wrapping, I have not had much issue with this. The ceramic helps here a bit too.

Ceramic Coating

• I have always been told that ceramic coating negates having to wax at all as long as you wash/maintain your car regularly. This means you maintain the crazy showroom level shine without having to wax all the time.
• With the ceramic coating washing is a breeze. Dirt will just rinse off the car with minimal effort. My Mazda in comparison is a dirt/dust magnet. It visibly looks dirty in less than a week of driving. The G80 still looks super glossy after a 2-3 weeks. When I do wash it, I foam cannon the entire car and the majority of it drips off before I even take a wash mit to it.
• The ceramic coating makes your entire car slick and hydrophobic; water will bead up and just roll off. This is what helps with washing. Also means your car won't look a mess after one rainy day.
• Will minimize (NOT 100% PREVENT) potential swirl marks. The Mazda still ends up with more swirl marks because there's more dirt that clings to the body to begin with which means more opportunity for those microscratches.
• They apply the ceramic on top of the film. It's not necessary, but it does give it an extra layer of protection. The ceramic also seems to be a little more water repellent too (the water beads up a little better).
• There's a thread in here about people getting stains/markings on the bronze/dark chrome trim pieces on the car. I haven't had my car a long time, but I suspect the ceramic coating will help protect against that.

I get that this may be overboard for most people, but I have found it to be of value to me. Hope that helped.

 

[mdaecher]

I did ceramic coating on my 2011 Genesis 3.8 and partial film on my 2018 G80 Sport (everything in front of A-pillar, door handles and side mirrors and trunk lip) and endorse both products. I've had bra's on cars but deem them unacceptable. The paint under the bra will not fade/age same as rest of car. They collect dirt at the edges. They will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. They are fugly IMO.


Which product is better for what criteria IMO ....
Appearance: Ceramic coating
It is near impossible to hide the edges of the film on 100% of the vehicle.
The paint looks nearly the same whether filmed or ceramic coated.

Protection: Film
Film will protect from "small" road debris. Some films are even self healing. Have a reasonable expectation though, as this is not Kevlar/bullet resistant material. Film is almost impervious to swirl marks in paint/finish.

Cost: Ceramic coating
Film is 2->3 times the cost of ceramic coating.

Care: Ceramic coating
For optimum appearance ...
Ceramic coating does need to continue being waxed occasionally, but less often than non-ceramiced car.
The film requires cleaning and sealing periodically. Film does not/should not be waxed.


Consider a mixed hybrid solution. Use film where most abuse occurs (front bumper, hood, rocker panels, door handles, side mirrors, A-Pillar etc.) and ceramic coating on remaining surfaces. It's a waste of money to put film on top of ceramic coating.

The appearance and durability of the ceramic coating/film is highly dependent on the skill of the installer and quality of the product. Do your research before choosing installer/product. Ensure or pay to have the body paint detailed to remove any imperfections before applying coating/film.

Theoretically the film can be removed, but I wouldn't want to do that tedious/time consuming job.

Installation of the film on the 2018 G80 Sport front bumper is difficult due to sharp edges/angles on the Sport models bumper. I took mine back twice due to film bubble forming in tight places on the lower bumper.

There are numerous threads on this topic in the forum already.
Clear bra and seams?
Ceramic Sealant

Have read the threads, but just trying to get a consensus in one spot. Appreciate your thoughts.
Guess I'm less worried about chips than just keeping the appearance up, though the quote I have for a dual layer, all-around ceramic coating isn't cheap - about $1200, which includes paint/detail work before application. And that does include the molding/trim and wheels. (I'm hoping to not have any of the discoloration issues with the dark chrome trim if I have it done). Are there recognized best brands for ceramic coating?

 

[mdaecher]

As a car paint enthusiast and someone who absolutely loves handwashing, waxes, detailing, etc., I cringe when automatic car washes come into the discussion. Especially with cars as beautiful as these. But I know not everyone enjoys or has the time and location for that. They're just so bad for paint.

Yes, I know. Time is my issue. But, thinking if ceramic makes cleaning easier, I may be more inclined to at least hose it off quickly at mania wash vs. take to an auto car wash

 

[mdaecher]

Just my two cents:

• Unless you are looking to go to a touchless automatic carwash, ceramic coating may be a waste. The ones with the spinning wash rags have all sorts of contaminants that make it like fine grit sandpaper. Don't think ceramic will fully protect against that.
• Either option will easily last a three year time frame. Most ceramic coatings I have seen are warrantied for 2 years (some I've seen for 10 years, but probably more expensive), but if you take care of it, they last a long time.
• Like bubbaG80Sport said, film is significantly more expensive. But you also have more options like getting a matte film. That would require you to do the entire car though ($$$).

Here is my personal experience. What I have now:

• 2019 G80 Sport
• Suntek paint protection film full front coverage (hood, front bumper, front fenders, mirrors)
• The grill itself is not film wrapped, only the body panels
• Modesta ceramic coating on entire car (minus wheels, does include grill)
• I intend to keep the car for several years
• I hand wash my own cars

I have previously done the film + ceramic setup before on previous cars. Here are my reasons/experiences:

Paint Protection Film

• The film has prevented numerous dents and dings from rock chips that ceramic coating will not protect against. This is pretty much the only reason, but its a pretty big reason to me.
• I currently have a Mazda as well without any film or ceramic coating. Within 2-3 months of ownership, it already had numerous dings/paint scratches in the bumper and hood from rocks and large bugs.
• My G80 has the film edge wrapped meaning they wrap as much of the edge as possible. There is minimal exposure of the actual body panel. Technically dirt could collect at the edges of the film, but since that is minimized with edge wrapping, I have not had much issue with this. The ceramic helps here a bit too.

Ceramic Coating

• I have always been told that ceramic coating negates having to wax at all as long as you wash/maintain your car regularly. This means you maintain the crazy showroom level shine without having to wax all the time.
• With the ceramic coating washing is a breeze. Dirt will just rinse off the car with minimal effort. My Mazda in comparison is a dirt/dust magnet. It visibly looks dirty in less than a week of driving. The G80 still looks super glossy after a 2-3 weeks. When I do wash it, I foam cannon the entire car and the majority of it drips off before I even take a wash mit to it.
• The ceramic coating makes your entire car slick and hydrophobic; water will bead up and just roll off. This is what helps with washing. Also means your car won't look a mess after one rainy day.
• Will minimize (NOT 100% PREVENT) potential swirl marks. The Mazda still ends up with more swirl marks because there's more dirt that clings to the body to begin with which means more opportunity for those microscratches.
• They apply the ceramic on top of the film. It's not necessary, but it does give it an extra layer of protection. The ceramic also seems to be a little more water repellent too (the water beads up a little better).
• There's a thread in here about people getting stains/markings on the bronze/dark chrome trim pieces on the car. I haven't had my car a long time, but I suspect the ceramic coating will help protect against that.

I get that this may be overboard for most people, but I have found it to be of value to me. Hope that helped.

thanks for the detail. Maybe I'll ask about a hybrid solution when I circle back with installers. One question though - if you have film on front and ceramic on side/rear, will there be a significant difference in look/shine between the two products?

And, which ceramic and film products are recognized as best?

 

[iamaronman]

thanks for the detail. Maybe I'll ask about a hybrid solution when I circle back with installers. One question though - if you have film on front and ceramic on side/rear, will there be a significant difference in look/shine between the two products?

And, which ceramic and film products are recognized as best?

I have never had an issue with it. You can't even tell the film is there unless you see the edges up close. It's essentially invisible. Add on the ceramic on top and the whole car is the same sheen. For your use though, if you don't care about chips too much, you may not need the film. Just a full ceramic coating will make maintenance easy. I don't know how effective a dual layer coating is. That just sounds like a marketing gimmick to me to sell you a pricier package. A single layer has been plenty effective in my experience. Dual may last longer, but if you're only keeping the car for 3 years, it may be overkill.

I don't know what's the best out there. But here's what I've had:
Film
Xpel - Was probably the first and best "self-healing" film for a long time, my installer tells me it has since been overtaken by other brands that have introduced better films
Suntek - So far has been great
STEK - Have not had direct experience, but hear great things. Side by side with Suntek, it looks even "clearer" if that makes sense.

Ceramic
CQuartz - worked great when I had it
Modesta - same. My installer offered different tiers of coatings that had different warranty periods

 

[Bourbonncigars]

Proper washing techniques are still required if you're going to get your money's worth from a ceramic coating. An automatic car wash will beat the hell out of it and still leave swirl marks, as will improper hand washing (using dirty water, dirty wash mitt, etc.).

 

[mdaecher]

Proper washing techniques are still required if you're going to get your money's worth from a ceramic coating. An automatic car wash will beat the hell out of it and still leave swirl marks, as will improper hand washing (using dirty water, dirty wash mitt, etc.).

what about just hosing off with some soapy water and rinsing?

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[iamaronman]

what about just hosing off with some soapy water and rinsing?

For your purposes, I think that would work. The ceramic coating may need to be reapplied after 2-3 years, but that's about when you'll be moving on to the next car anyway.

 

[Bourbonncigars]

what about just hosing off with some soapy water and rinsing?

Should be fine unless you have some clearly visible dirt, salt, whatever, on there that doesn't wash off. It'll embed. You'll need to get it off.

And if a soap/rinse is the extent of the car washing that you want to do, you'd better do it very frequently. Bare minimum would be once a week, depending on the environment you typically drive in, of course. I'd also dry it with a leaf blower if you have one. You want as little contact as possible.

We want to take of the vehicles we have during our ownership. One day that expensive car will be passed on to someone who can't come close to affording a new one and it'll be the car of their dreams. I want to trade or sell a vehicle in better condition than I bought it in (or as close as I can get).

 

[Ggace]

If you are investing in your paint, nothing will protect you better against paint swirls better than hand washing yourself. My g80 sport is ceramic coated using quarts. It was professional installed & I simply use a leaf blower to dry & 1-2 tiny microfiber towels after that to get the nooks.

I can speak to my first ceramic coating experience & nothing else. I will never go without ceramic coating again. I detail my car on a weekly (MAYBE bi-weekly if it doesn't rain to much here) basis & the car after several months still looks like glass & freshly waxed. No paint swirls.

Ceramic will not protect against paint chips & our cars EAT rocks because of the low front end design. The best thing for that is a clear bra. If you get one professionally installed, they will tuck in properly so they are not getting ugly on the edges.

 

[Dai Uy Ted]

Regarding brand of ceramic coating, in my experience the installer is the key factor. Pick an installer/detailer with a good reputation and let him use the brand he is comfortable with.
I had two cars done with Ceramic Pro Plus - looked great and lasted. Then a good shop opened much closer to me and I had two done there. They work with Feynlab, and the result is just as pleasing.

 

[mdaecher]

well, going in later today to a Cermaic Pro autospa. cha-ching

 

[Bourbonncigars]

Ceramic will not protect against paint chips & our cars EAT rocks because of the low front end design.

My wife has a Genesis too. It's white, so the paint chips are highly visible. I asked her one day how long she was using the smart cruise to follow the gravel truck. That front end is eaten alive with chips. Can't see anything on my black one (except every single other paint defect known to man that occurs).

 

[Ggace]

My wife has a Genesis too. It's white, so the paint chips are highly visible. I asked her one day how long she was using the smart cruise to follow the gravel truck. That front end is eaten alive with chips. Can't see anything on my black one (except every single other paint defect known to man that occurs).

I have the polar ice and I see all the chips unfortunately. For the small ones, I use Dr paint chip or whatever it was called. It's ok but they are still noticeable close up.

"Smart cruise control to follow gravel truck" has me dying hahahha.

 

[Lamga1]

For those who did full frontal PPF or clear-bra, did you do the headlights...why or why not?