Genesis G70 update

[Mark_888]

I don't think there has been a delay...........yet.

The Kia Stinger went on sale in the Korean home market at the end of May (2017). It was available in November (2017) in the US.

The Genesis G70 has been on sale in Korea since September (2017). Applying the same "Stinger time frame" gets you an on sale date of Feb./Mar. in the US. That really doesn't seem like a hardship to meet. I believe the original rumors put the on sale date in the US as sometime in April. Which still seems reasonable. Now, pushing beyond that would seem like a purposeful delay.

I suspect there may well be a couple of reasons for a "strategic" delay. They may not want to cannibalize Stinger sales after it was also just launched in the US. There also may be a desire to see how far they can get on the stand alone Genesis dealership model (maybe be ready to do the first G70 free maintenance at a Genesis only dealership in some locations).

There is no "strategic" marketing delay involved with respect to what Kia is doing. Any delay is purely logistical or regulatory (getting approvals, EPA ratings, crash testing, etc), and also the fact they like to release vehicles in Korea before the USA to make sure there are no major problems. The Korean market is very forgiving of Korean company quality problem, but any major issue with a Hyundai or Genesis in the USA would bring back the ghosts of the 1980;s when the introduction of Hyundai to the USA was an unmitigated disaster due to quality problems. The Japanese have had a Japan first policy for many years, for the same reasons (except for some Japanese manufacturer vehicles are now made in North America and have to be exported to Japan or may not even be sold in Japan).

What Kia does in terms of marketing is not related to Hyundai. Hyundai now only owns 33% of Kia (down from 51% at one time) and they now operate as completely separate companies at the marketing level, although they obviously have broad technology (and sometimes manufacturing) sharing agreements. But they don't share marketing plans with each other.

Also, decisions about when (and if) to introduce cars in the USA are almost always made by Hyundai Motor America (and its Genesis Motors USA subsidiary). This includes cars manufactured in Korea and imported into the USA.

 

[Mcc]

Does anyone (not just the last poster) here actually work or worked for Hyundai, Kia or Genesis? Just wondering since all these statements are being presented as facts. How do you know all this stuff or where do you get it from? Its not that I doubt it, since I know nothing. I have to say I find it fascinating though.

 

[TEF]

Like most Hyundias and KIAs, I suspect that there is very little difference under the body panels for each respective model. For example, the Optima and Sonata are basically the same vehicle under the skin. Likewise, if one looks at the Hyundai lineup, he/she will see a comparable KIA vehicle in most instances. By the same logic, the Stinger and G70 were likely developed together and share all but the body. Given their production costs, all manufacturers achieve economies of scale by sharing platforms, engines and drive lines and to imagine the G70 and Stinger as unrelated is ridiculous. Just look under the hood of a Genesis and notice the many parts bearing the logos of both KIA and Hyundai. If Hyundai is delaying the G70 for some marketing reason, it would appear a curious decision considering that Genesis currently has nothing really new to offer customers. There was virtually no one looking at the Genesis display when I visited the Detroit Motor show last week (and that would have been an ideal venue to display the upcoming G70 even if not yet for sale). The Stinger was shown last January at KIA's display despite the fact that it did not go on sale until late 2017.

 

[Mark_888]

Does anyone (not just the last poster) here actually work or worked for Hyundai, Kia or Genesis? Just wondering since all these statements are being presented as facts. How do you know all this stuff or where do you get it from? Its not that I doubt it, since I know nothing. I have to say I find it fascinating though.

The information about Kia and Hyundai marketing being completely separate I got from John Krafcik, former CEO of HMA. I participated in an online chat with about 20 other Hyundai owners who were original members of the "Hyundai Think Tank," and the subject of coordination of Hyundai and Kia came up. Krafcik said there is no coordination of any kind at the marketing level in the USA, and none that he know about in Korea. As previously stated, Hyundai and Korea do have extensive technology sharing, and a few final assembly plants produce both Hyundai's and Kia's together. Krafcik is now CEO of Waymo Inc., owned by Google.

There have been many agreements in auto business to share technology and even final assembly manufacturing, and at one time New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) was an automobile manufacturing company in Fremont, California, jointly owned by General Motors and Toyota that opened in 1984 and closed in 2010. They manufactured basically the same car (with different sheet metal, etc) for each company. It is now a Tesla plant. When it comes to parts manufacturing (not final assembly) there are numerous technology sharing agreements in the auto industry.

As I mentioned previously, at one time Hyundai owned 51% of Kia, and back then it is reasonable to assume there was a coordination of marketing. Hyundai now only owns about 33%, and even in Korea they do have "some" anti-trust laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Like most Hyundias and KIAs, I suspect that there is very little difference under the body panels for each respective model. For example, the Optima and Sonata are basically the same vehicle under the skin.

I don't believe the Optima and Sonata are the same under the skin (if you define skin as sheet metal). Obviously, they do share powertrains and many other major components, including uni-body frame, but there are a lot of differences.

Regardless of the number of mechanical parts and systems shared, that doesn't mean they share marketing plans.

 

[Mcc]

Thanks

 

[TEF]

"... but there are a lot of differences." Since you concede they share the same chassis, engine and drive line what would those differences be: tail lights? Come on, the expensive components of a vehicle are those they share. Body stampings and dashboards are not the expensive parts. Having lived in Korea, I can tell you that the Government of Korea does very little to regulate Chaebol companies (i.e. Samsung, LG, Hyundai and a few others), so the merger and cooperation of Hyundai and KIA likely went unopposed. In fact, it was the Korean government that decides what each company produces. For example, when Samsung decided to manufacture automobiles with Nissan, the Korean government ordered them to stop. So the merger of Hyundai with KIA was done with the consent of the Korean government.

 

[YEH]

I joined the Genesis team right from its inception and I fully bought into their vision. As such, I am personally glad that the Genesis SUVs aren't based on Hyundai platforms. As much as my wallet would love any immediate sales increase, additional Hyundai-based Genesis vehicles would not help the brand out with their complete separation from Hyundai.

Well, it's been well documented that I'm in total agreement.

Speaking of Hyundai crossovers...

Quite like the looks of the Santa Fe Sport replacement based on the renderings.

Has clean line while still looking classy and aggressive (which is difficult to do - see Lexus); in fact, like the design of SFS replacement better than the GV80 concept (I'm really hoping Schreyer and Co. make some significant changes for the production version - starting w/ that grille design).

The Santa Fe Sport replacement supposedly will be getting a higher grade interior as well (hopefully somewhere close to level of the CX-9's interior quality) - which really wouldn't leave much room for a Genesis variant (if they had gone the FWD route).

Got a ? for ya YEG -

From what I have gathered, the models following the G70 will have the design language that the Genesis brand will carry (for the near-future).

Personally, love the clean/aggressive lines of the New York concept (hoping that'll be the template for the next G80 and so on), but there have been those who have suggested that it is the GV80 that carries the template for all future Genesis models.

I'm really hoping that the Genesis team goes w/ the New York concept (or even the Vision G concept) for the sedans, instead of using the GV80 template (which don't really care for).

While it is possible that Genesis will differentiate the designs of its sedans and crossovers, my fear is that they think the New York concept is too close to the look Hyundai will be carrying and that every Genesis model will carry GV80 DNA in an attempt to further differentiate Genesis from Hyundai.

Totally understand if you can't answer directly, but maybe you can still give your opinion as to which you prefer.

One of the current brand pillars of Genesis is that it uses RWD-based platforms for all its vehicles. As all Hyundai SUVs are based on FWD platforms this immediately goes against what Genesis wants, especially since Genesis does not want to share any platform with Hyundai (asides from the G80 as it started life as a Hyundai). Additionally to the previous statement, rumor has it that the G70 was originally destined to be a Hyundai before Genesis separated so that's why Kia has the Stinger.

Does this mean that the planned crossover slotting beneath the GV70 (GV60?) will also be RWD (when all of the German competition is FWD)?

As well as the dedicated EV platform (of which we'll likely see at least a couple of body-styles)?

For that, these days, automakers have developed flexible platforms which can take a FWD and RWD powertrain (which is easier to do for EVs).

Don't think the G70 being branded a Hyundai or Genesis has any bearing on Kia doing the Stinger.

Schreyer was the driving force behind the Stinger and besides, it's important to Kia that they compete in the luxury segment in their domestic market (hence, the K9 - aka K900 and Quoris).

- - - Updated - - -

Given the positive reaction to the Kia Stinger, I am surprised that Hyundai delayed the sale of a smaller RWD sedan this long. The current Genesis line up is comprised of large and heavy G80 and an even larger and heavier G90. Neither is very sporty or fun to drive, so you have to wonder about the delay of the G70. Having owned the original Genesis (that was not bad for the price) and the G80 3.8 AWD, I believe that Hyundai is heading the wrong way with bigger and heavier sedans. In Korea these large sedans are limo's operated by corporations and hotels, but just don't cut it when compared with other cars in the same class (i.e. BMW, Audi and Lexus).

Are you sure about that?

Last year, the G80 outsold both the A6 and GS and the G90 outsold the A8 and LS.

While the G80 and G90 need to cut weight (reportedly, the next gen platforms will be lighter), it's not like Mercedes is currently utilizing state-of-the-art lightweight platforms (which is something that BMW, Audi, Cadillac and Jaguar are doing), but MB is still ruling the roost when it comes to luxury sedans, esp. the flagship segment with the S Class.

Btw, neither the E Class (unless you get the AMG version) nor the S Class are fun to drive compared to the competition from BMW an Audi - and even they suffer in the dynamics part compared to Cadillac, Alfa Romeo and Jaguar (guess where Cadillac, Alfa Romeo and Jaguar sedans sales are?).

The latter all concentrated on light-weight and performance/handling but scrimped on things like interior space and luxury - things that the majority if luxury buyers place a higher premium on than driving dynamics.

If anything, think that Genesis is kinda making the same mistake as Cadillac, etc. - overly focusing on driving dynamics for the G70, which in part, has led to a cabin that is on the smaller end (at least when compared to the C Class, A4 and the new 3 Series).

Cadillac has seen the error of its ways and its ATS replacement, the CT5, will grow back to about the size of the 2G CTS.

As for the delay - it it does happen it'll be b/c more time is needed to get a certain # of Genesis dealership built and running.

The KDM Stinger was launched late last May and the G70 was launched about 4 months after that.

Considering that the Stinger has been on sale in the US for about 2 months, we're talking about an April (maybe May) launch for the G70 - which is what Genesis had stated was the timeline.

But there has been some indication that the US launch may be delayed til the fall (so we're talking about an additional 4 months or so).

If that's what is needed to get a certain # of Genesis dealerships built and up and running, then that's what it takes.

As prices for Genesis sedans escalated with each model year, there is less and less reason to choose the rather unremarkable G80 and G90 over German and Japanese-made vehicles. Add to this the lagging sales of sedans in general (and no SUV from Hyundai) and it's hard to imagine much growth for the Genesis brand.

Well, I've stated form the start that pricing will be crucial and that as the price rises (which was going to happen as Hyundai/Genesis adds amenities and now a separate dealer network), some sales will be the price to pay for higher ATPs.

But right presently, the G80 and G90 still have a good price advantage over Lexus and even more so against MB and BMW.

One can say that the G90 is unremarkable (such as the sheetmetal), but it still beat out the 7 Series and new LS in a MT comparison test.

And the next G90 (as well as G80) should be a significant step up in sheetmetal, interior and driving dynamics.

The 1st Genesis crossover is due to arrive in 2019 with the 2nd one due in 2020 (with another one to follow).

 

[Bamm1]

There is no "strategic" marketing delay involved with respect to what Kia is doing. Any delay is purely logistical or regulatory (getting approvals, EPA ratings, crash testing, etc), and also the fact they like to release vehicles in Korea before the USA to make sure there are no major problems. The Korean market is very forgiving of Korean company quality problem, but any major issue with a Hyundai or Genesis in the USA would bring back the ghosts of the 1980;s when the introduction of Hyundai to the USA was an unmitigated disaster due to quality problems. The Japanese have had a Japan first policy for many years, for the same reasons (except for some Japanese manufacturer vehicles are now made in North America and have to be exported to Japan or may not even be sold in Japan).

What Kia does in terms of marketing is not related to Hyundai. Hyundai now only owns 33% of Kia (down from 51% at one time) and they now operate as completely separate companies at the marketing level, although they obviously have broad technology (and sometimes manufacturing) sharing agreements. But they don't share marketing plans with each other.

Also, decisions about when (and if) to introduce cars in the USA are almost always made by Hyundai Motor America (and its Genesis Motors USA subsidiary). This includes cars manufactured in Korea and imported into the USA.

As for the delay - it it does happen it'll be b/c more time is needed to get a certain # of Genesis dealership built and running.

The KDM Stinger was launched late last May and the G70 was launched about 4 months after that.

Considering that the Stinger has been on sale in the US for about 2 months, we're talking about an April (maybe May) launch for the G70 - which is what Genesis had stated was the timeline.

But there has been some indication that the US launch may be delayed til the fall (so we're talking about an additional 4 months or so).

If that's what is needed to get a certain # of Genesis dealerships built and up and running, then that's what it takes.

Taking regulatory hurdles, production issues, etc. into consideration it took Kia X amount of time to start selling the Stinger (a brand new model) in the US. Excluding some extremely rare, unforeseen circumstance, there should be no reason that the G70 can't be "on sale"in the US in the same time frame. The rumored April launch would align with the Stinger timeline (the G70 is supposed to be available even earlier in Canada). Waiting until a fall launch (like the second rumor circulating around) seems like a conscious choice by Hyundai/Genesis, not some kind of "issue" that they are struggling to overcome. So there is "guessing" as to why they would do that. Better dealerships with the Genesis only model, etc. are being tossed around. I personally feel it is always best to launch a car that has several trims that come standard with summer tires in the spring vs. in the fall. This will be the first Genesis model with that caveat. A large percentage of your target customer group (say NE US) will have to swap out the tires almost immediately.

 

[Mark_888]

Waiting until a fall launch (like the second rumor circulating around) seems like a conscious choice by Hyundai/Genesis, not some kind of "issue" that they are struggling to overcome.

Hyundai or Genesis have never waited for a fall launch if a car is ready before that (unless that happened a long time ago). The "second" rumor is just that, a rumor, and I think it was originally published quite awhile ago before any solid information was available. Most of the people who write articles for the automotive press these days are freelance, or working for free (but get to test cars and attend manufacturer junkets for free), and not really professional journalists with serious contacts within the automakers.

So I am 100% confident that they will make the G70 available in the US as soon as it is feasible to do so. Keep in mind that the regulatory and logistical issues for the USA and Canada are different.

Several Hyundai dealers have said it will be available in April (or close to that), so I would trust that information, baring any unforeseen complications.

 

[devellis]

Based on the latest info. (see thread in the general forum), seems like Genesis is only going to allow the new Genesis franchises to sell the G70 and since only a few of them will be up and operating this year, will mean very limited G70 sales (all franchises must be operational by Jan. 1 2021).

Now, there is some wriggle-room as to interpretation as '19MY products will be designated solely for Genesis dealerships.

But typically with a new model launch (even in the 1st half of the year), Hyundai designates it as a next year model, so the G70 will in all likelihood be a '19MY.

Genesis is expected to launch in Australia in April or May.


Here are some pics of a Genesis showroom at a Canadian mall.

Genesis in Canada may be doing things in an innovative way, but it has impacted sales.

At its peak, Hyundai sold nearly 4k of the Genesis sedan in Canada and even when sales tailed off towards the end of the 1G Genesis life-cycle, still sold over 2k.

Last year, Genesis Canada sold just 433 of the G80.

Now, some decline can be explained by the price hike, but such a drastic decline probably has to do with the new sales strategy.

Even tho Genesis USA will be following a diff. strategy, as things look (and if they do go ahead with the plan that '19MY will only be available ar the new Genesis dealerships), will be a rough few years until a majority of the Genesis dealerships are up and running.

Man, these mall showrooms just strike me as really tacky, the exact opposite of what Genesis seems to be striving for. Yes, they will get the cars seen but arguably not by the target audience or in the kind of setting that is conducive to luxury car buyers truly familiarizing themselves with the product. Tire kickers rather than people with a serious interest. We guys'll look at any car we haven't seen before but that's a long way from actually moving toward a purchase. Not sure what this will accomplish. Seems like spending the money on selectively mailing some nice brochures to potential customers might have a better impact.

Genesis has a very good product here, by all accounts. But it needs to connect with potential buyers in ways that it doesn't seem yet to have done. And it needs to make the cars as attractive as possible, which means aggressive pricing and lots of features. It seems to have checked off the second of those but it remains to be seen how aggressively they price the car. With so many options available to a fairly small sport sedan market, distinguishing themselves from the competition seems critical. They're not positioned to do that on the basis of reputation or prestige yet, as a new brand. So, features and value are what they need to generate interest beyond the inevitable first blush of early adopters who've followed the car since its earliest announcements. Those folks are too few to really spell success for the car. Skimping on features, as Kia has done with the Stinger, lowers perceptions of the car. Pricing too high forces comparisons to more established products with long-standing reputations as luxury cars. Hitting the sweet spot is going to be tricky. I think if they can get people behind the wheel (assuming the car is as good as it seems to be based on what we know so far) is the winning strategy.

Word of mouth will go a long way to driving how the car is perceived. Happy owners, especially people who are seen as opinion leaders among their peers, are a critical factor. People often ask me for recommendations about cars and I suspect a lot of us on this forum are in that position. We're known as "car people" and our opinions have some weight. That's why I think something like very targeted marketing aimed at people with an established interest in cars of this sort would have been a better use of money that the mall showroom. Identify some owners of BMWs, Mercedes, Lexuses, Infinitis, Acuras, etc. and ask them if they would be interested in having a car brought to their door for a test drive. Ask them to share their impressions with friends. If the car delivers the goods, that kind of word of mouth will spread pretty quickly among potential customers. Of course, if the car or the ownership experience described during the test drive fall short, then that plan would backfire.

I think Genesis should even go so far as to state fairly plainly that initial pricing has been set very aggressively because Genesis is a new brand and they want to encourage people to broaden their perspectives beyond the luxury sport sedans they are already familiar with. The implication is that later on, prices will likely be higher and that there's a value opportunity at present that may not be there in the future to as great a degree (although the car will likely always represent a good value against European alternatives, at least). If I were approached in this way, with no pressure to commit to an immediate purchase, I'd be duly impressed. I might well consider a brand I'd never thought about if presented in this way. As an example, I've never really considered a Jaguar, for no reason in particular, but if a Jag dealer contacted me and offered to come by and give me a test drive with no strings attached and no pressure, I'd likely take them up on the offer. If I ended up really liking the car, I might decide it was time to consider getting my first Jag. I chose Jaguar for this example because it's a car that is off of a lot of people's radar (mine included) but I suspect is actually a pretty nice car. This approach would get it on my radar in a hurry. I've had a couple of BMW's, a couple of Infinitis, and my brother used to sell Mercedes and both he and my sister have had them. And I've been in many a Lexus and Acura. So all of those brands are somewhat or very familiar to me. But Jag is a bit of an unknown, sort of like Genesis. So, imagining how I'd react to this sort of presentation involving a car I've never really considered owning, I can imagine that it would spark my interest. I've already developed an interest in Genesis but many who haven't might react the way I have to the Jaguar scenario in this little thought experiment. It's just an idea, of course. But it strikes me as potentially a lot more effective than seeing cars at a mall, next to the toilets.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Mark_888]

Man, these mall showrooms just strike me as really tacky, the exact opposite of what Genesis seems to be striving for.

That is the way cars are sold in many parts of the world, partly because of high real estate costs that prohibit a large dealership in areas that attract consumers. Also, in many countries outside the USA, the manufacturer can sell cars directly to consumers from that store. Those pics are from Canada, where I believe (but not 100% sure) it is legal for the manufacturer to sell a car directly.

But even in the USA, you will often see one or more cars in the common areas of a shopping mall that are displayed by dealers. I think showing cars in malls would actually be a good idea to get exposure to the public for Genesis Motors brand to people who otherwise would never consider going to a Genesis Motors dealership, simply because they had never heard of Genesis or never seen one.

 

[GV70GUY]

So being a new Genesis owner I can tell you up until now I've never even noticed or seen one on the road. And to be honest when someone said Hyundai I would say are you kidding? Like others I have owned a lot of cars including BMW, Infinitis, Corvettes, Mazda's Caddy, etc. It was at a recent new car show that when walking around looking for my next new car that I saw the Genesis's display and said what is that? After checking them out I was really impressed. Went home and started doing my homework and soon realized this was a well kept secret. At least from me. I like unusual cars that not everyone owns, had a Prowler once as well. After my research I was dead set on getting a G70 figuring the G80 was too big for my taste but I didn't like the interior in the G70 other than the seats. Don't like the look of an add on ipad Nav screen like everyone is doing. So looked at the G80 more and drove one and I was done, within 2 weeks after the car show I bought a G80 Sport and love it. Also helped that discounting was really good.

What will help Genesis is getting the name out there. I can drive down the road and see signs for Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc but where are the Genesis signs? It looks like it's coming and it needs it, I went into one Hyundai dealership to take a test drive of a G80 and the place was a dump and they held my trade in car keys hostage, I couldn't get out of there fast enough. The next one had a separate Genesis showroom that was new and they treated me with respect, I made a deal in an hour and this dealership is close to home.

I like my Genesis because you don't see many on the road but I am surprise than many folks I told about the car did know what a Genesis was.

Driving my G80 to and from work has actually lower my stress level I'm more calm now.

One last think about Infinitis I think these folks went off on the wrong path. I had a G35 and a G37 way back when and bang for the buck against cars like the BMW 3 series the Infiniti in my book was a better car, price being a big factor as well. But over the years especially with the Q series these cars have become very expensive and reliability has dropped big time. I won't even consider one today. Hopefully Genesis won't take this route and out price themselves because again bang for the buck there is nothing in my book even close today for what you get.

 

[Mark_888]

they held my trade in car keys hostage

They teach this to car salesman on the first day of training. I remember back in 1998 a Toyota salesman tried to pull that trick. When I said I was leaving, he said the key to my trade-in that they inspected was misplaced, and I said "no problem, I brought two keys with me, and I will come back later for the one you misplaced," and suddenly the key reappeared, they lowered their price to what I wanted, and I made the deal. Never go car shopping with one key for your trade-in, regardless of the brand.

 

[GV70GUY]

They teach this to car salesman on the first day of training. I remember back in 1998 a Toyota salesman tried to pull that trick. When I said I was leaving, he said the key to my trade-in that they inspected was misplaced, and I said "no problem, I brought two keys with me, and I will come back later for the one you misplaced," and suddenly the key reappeared, they lowered their price to what I wanted, and I made the deal. Never go car shopping with one key for your trade-in, regardless of the brand.

Good idea, in this case it wasn't the salesman but one of the managers I made the salesman go back to this guy to get my keys 4 times. They got a nasty email from me that night and I got an apology from the sales manager next day and he ask me if I still wanted the car. My answer is I just bought one from another dealership.

 

[EdP]

Good idea, in this case it wasn't the salesman but one of the managers I made the salesman go back to this guy to get my keys 4 times. They got a nasty email from me that night and I got an apology from the sales manager next day and he ask me if I still wanted the car. My answer is I just bought one from another dealership.

Probably anyone that has bought two or more cars has a dumb salesman story. When my daughter graduated school and had her first full time job my gift to her was down payment on a new car. She went to to a local dealer to see a Ford Escort. He gave her a price $100 off sticker. I was out of town at the time so went back with her later. Check book was sticking out of my pocket, plainly visible. I said, "lets talk price" and he said it was the best he could do and would not budge. We left, daughter upset because it was her money to buy the car, etc, etc. I ate dinner very quietly that night, then remembered where the next closest dealer was. Got daughter and off we went. Same exact car. Dealer #2 asked if we wanted to take a test drive and I just told her all I needed was the best price. Saved daughter $600 on a $6200 car. The lesson served her well and she liked driving past the first dealer and waving to the salesman after he called with a better deal too late. .

 

[Mark_888]

Good idea, in this case it wasn't the salesman but one of the managers I made the salesman go back to this guy to get my keys 4 times. They got a nasty email from me that night and I got an apology from the sales manager next day and he ask me if I still wanted the car. My answer is I just bought one from another dealership.

The salesman and sales manager are in cahoots on that scam. The sales manager is the ring leader, and the salesman is the flunky on almost all the deals. The "lost key for trade-in" scam is probably run a hundred thousand times each year at car dealers in the US.

 

[GenesisYEG]

Well, it's been well documented that I'm in total agreement.

Speaking of Hyundai crossovers...

Quite like the looks of the Santa Fe Sport replacement based on the renderings.

Has clean line while still looking classy and aggressive (which is difficult to do - see Lexus); in fact, like the design of SFS replacement better than the GV80 concept (I'm really hoping Schreyer and Co. make some significant changes for the production version - starting w/ that grille design).

The Santa Fe Sport replacement supposedly will be getting a higher grade interior as well (hopefully somewhere close to level of the CX-9's interior quality) - which really wouldn't leave much room for a Genesis variant (if they had gone the FWD route).

Got a ? for ya YEG -

From what I have gathered, the models following the G70 will have the design language that the Genesis brand will carry (for the near-future).

Personally, love the clean/aggressive lines of the New York concept (hoping that'll be the template for the next G80 and so on), but there have been those who have suggested that it is the GV80 that carries the template for all future Genesis models.

I'm really hoping that the Genesis team goes w/ the New York concept (or even the Vision G concept) for the sedans, instead of using the GV80 template (which don't really care for).

While it is possible that Genesis will differentiate the designs of its sedans and crossovers, my fear is that they think the New York concept is too close to the look Hyundai will be carrying and that every Genesis model will carry GV80 DNA in an attempt to further differentiate Genesis from Hyundai.

Totally understand if you can't answer directly, but maybe you can still give your opinion as to which you prefer.

Does this mean that the planned crossover slotting beneath the GV70 (GV60?) will also be RWD (when all of the German competition is FWD)?

As well as the dedicated EV platform (of which we'll likely see at least a couple of body-styles)?

For that, these days, automakers have developed flexible platforms which can take a FWD and RWD powertrain (which is easier to do for EVs).

Don't think the G70 being branded a Hyundai or Genesis has any bearing on Kia doing the Stinger.

Schreyer was the driving force behind the Stinger and besides, it's important to Kia that they compete in the luxury segment in their domestic market (hence, the K9 - aka K900 and Quoris).

- - - Updated - - -

I like the New York Concept a lot as well. As much as I like the GV80's silhouette, I do prefer the NYC in overall aesthetic. I know Mr. Donckerwolke said that modern lighting clusters are "aquariums filled with shit" but I am not 100% sold on two strips of LEDs per side, either. The NYC definitely has some design elements that carried forward into the G70 and may carry over to future models but I would say the GV80 has the more current design language that is expected to make its way to future models.

I do believe that when Genesis starts going towards hybrid/electric vehicles then they may relax on the RWD-based only powertrain criterion as it makes sense to have a FWD-based compact EV SUV. I am still a big fan of RWD-based platforms, however!

The Stinger was always going to be in existence as long as Hyundai got one. Now that Genesis is separate, Genesis is reluctant to share any future platforms with Kia or at the very least similar vehicles as the G70/Stinger. Whether or not that is actually the case remains to be seen in the future.

 

[YEH]

Taking regulatory hurdles, production issues, etc. into consideration it took Kia X amount of time to start selling the Stinger (a brand new model) in the US. Excluding some extremely rare, unforeseen circumstance, there should be no reason that the G70 can't be "on sale"in the US in the same time frame. The rumored April launch would align with the Stinger timeline (the G70 is supposed to be available even earlier in Canada). Waiting until a fall launch (like the second rumor circulating around) seems like a conscious choice by Hyundai/Genesis, not some kind of "issue" that they are struggling to overcome. So there is "guessing" as to why they would do that. Better dealerships with the Genesis only model, etc. are being tossed around. I personally feel it is always best to launch a car that has several trims that come standard with summer tires in the spring vs. in the fall. This will be the first Genesis model with that caveat. A large percentage of your target customer group (say NE US) will have to swap out the tires almost immediately.

Well, it's just a rumor thus far, but it does make sense and align with what the Genesis honchos have been saying (that '19MY will only be available at Genesis dealerships).

By moving the launch of the G70 to the fall, it not only allows time for more Genesis dealerships to be up and running, but also would correspond with the changeover to the '19MY for the G80 and G90.

Man, these mall showrooms just strike me as really tacky, the exact opposite of what Genesis seems to be striving for. Yes, they will get the cars seen but arguably not by the target audience or in the kind of setting that is conducive to luxury car buyers truly familiarizing themselves with the product. Tire kickers rather than people with a serious interest. We guys'll look at any car we haven't seen before but that's a long way from actually moving toward a purchase. Not sure what this will accomplish. Seems like spending the money on selectively mailing some nice brochures to potential customers might have a better impact.

Don't see what the big deal is as long as their in higher-end malls/shopping centers (can't beat the foot-traffic).

After all, this idea isn't new and has been done by

At least the Genesis "store" looks high-end; can't the same for this MB store.

What's even worse is this set-up.

Now, this Benz store in a shopping mall looks a lot better.

The automaker most known for this is Tesla.

Lincoln has joined Tesla at the tony Fashion Island shopping center in SoCal.

I like the New York Concept a lot as well. As much as I like the GV80's silhouette, I do prefer the NYC in overall aesthetic. I know Mr. Donckerwolke said that modern lighting clusters are "aquariums filled with shit" but I am not 100% sold on two strips of LEDs per side, either. The NYC definitely has some design elements that carried forward into the G70 and may carry over to future models but I would say the GV80 has the more current design language that is expected to make its way to future models.

Totally agree and uggh, just what I was afraid of (it's not just the design/shape of the headlights/taillights on the GV80 concept, but that grille design is pretty ungainly).

As for the G70, thought that the design for that was already frozen by the time they came up w/ the NYC? (I supposed they could have made some minor changes.)

I do believe that when Genesis starts going towards hybrid/electric vehicles then they may relax on the RWD-based only powertrain criterion as it makes sense to have a FWD-based compact EV SUV. I am still a big fan of RWD-based platforms, however!

That would make sense, altho nowadays, there flexible platforms that can utilize FWD, RWD and AWD are a possibility.

Lincoln's new platform will be one such platform.

Always thought that the dedicated EV platform will give rise to several body-styles, including a CUV.

But the question remains whether that sub-GV70 crossover will be RWD like its larger siblings.

Purportedly, Cadillac's sub-entry sedan (A Class fighter) is still on track to be RWD, which will make it a unicorn in the segment.

But Cadillac's sub-entry crossover will likely be FWD (like the rest of Cadillac's CUV lineup barring a possible flagship crossover based on the Omega platform).

The Stinger was always going to be in existence as long as Hyundai got one. Now that Genesis is separate, Genesis is reluctant to share any future platforms with Kia or at the very least similar vehicles as the G70/Stinger. Whether or not that is actually the case remains to be seen in the future.

OK - but can't see the K900 going away (too important for Kia in its domestic market).

Speaking of the K900, here's a shot of the interior of the K900 replacement.

Looks pretty good.

Think Hyundai should continue sharing in the platforms (and technically, the Stinger's platform is diff. from the G70's due to the added length) as it strengthens the economies of scale.

Don't see the problem as long as Genesis and Kia cater to different segments by differentiating their models (different sizes/lengths, diff. body-styles, etc.).

Btw, thanks for responding YEG!

 

[devellis]

That is the way cars are sold in many parts of the world, partly because of high real estate costs that prohibit a large dealership in areas that attract consumers. Also, in many countries outside the USA, the manufacturer can sell cars directly to consumers from that store. Those pics are from Canada, where I believe (but not 100% sure) it is legal for the manufacturer to sell a car directly.

But even in the USA, you will often see one or more cars in the common areas of a shopping mall that are displayed by dealers. I think showing cars in malls would actually be a good idea to get exposure to the public for Genesis Motors brand to people who otherwise would never consider going to a Genesis Motors dealership, simply because they had never heard of Genesis or never seen one.

Good points, Mark.