Getting Time for New Tires

[rick3242]

So my G90 is going to need new tires in the near future. I was at the Firestone Dealer yesterday to patch a nail hole in my Tundra. Started talking to him that my G90 is going to need new tires and he suggested the Turanza Prestige. It comes in both sizes for front and rear and is a non directional so at least I can rotate side to side. The surprising thing is that he told me the warranty is for 70K regardless of the staggered tires. So, seeing how these cars zip through tires and most manufactures cut staggered tire warranty in half I am very interested. Did some research and saw some reviews for the G80 which were positive and wanted to know if anyone has first hand experience with these tires.

 

[David-R]

That mileage warranty info is interesting. The manager of my local Firestone told me there is no mileage warranty with a staggered setup.

 

[NashvilleEquus]

Generally the warranty for staggered tire sizes is 50% of the normal warranty from most tire manufacturers.

I got about 30k on my rear OEM Continentals and 38k (with some tread left but aging out) on the fronts on our 2020 V8 AWD G90.

 

[srobak]

Michelin CrossClimate 2. 60k warranty, even staggered. Quiet, smooth, grippy in dry, wet, snow. Some of the best grand touring rubber I have run on a car in a very, very long time.

 

[NashvilleEquus]

Michelin CrossClimate 2. 60k warranty, even staggered. Quiet, smooth, grippy in dry, wet, snow. Some of the best grand touring rubber I have run on a car in a very, very long time.

It requires rotations for the warranty. I'd get clarification from your dealer.

 

[rick3242]

Ok so decided to check myself what the warranty on Michelin and Bridgestone tires are in regards to staggered set up. They are as follows; Appears that the Bridgestone edges out Michelin on the front tires.

Bridgestone:

For tires used on staggered fitments (vehicles with different size tires between the front and rear); the front tires will have the full limited mileage warranty (if available) and the rear tires will have one-half of the stated limited mileage warranty (if available).

Michelin:

Some vehicles come from the vehicle manufacturer with “split fitments” – meaning different sizes of tires on the front and rear axles. Because these tires cannot be rotated as recommended by Michelin, the mileage warranty on each tire will cover half the number of miles as the standard mileage warranty for that particular tire design.

 

[NVQB10]

Michelin CrossClimate 2. 60k warranty, even staggered. Quiet, smooth, grippy in dry, wet, snow. Some of the best grand touring rubber I have run on a car in a very, very long time.

Agree totally, however if I lived in a non snowy climate and wanted a quieter , more responsive handling tire (and did not need 3-peak traction) I might go with something else like Pirellis or even Dunlop

 

[NVQB10]

Agree totally, however if I lived in a non snowy climate and wanted a quieter , more responsive handling tire (and did not need 3-peak traction) I might go with something else like Pirellis or even Dunlop

PS I have CC2s on my GV80 here in the Sierras.

 

[Riley2323]

So my G90 is going to need new tires in the near future. I was at the Firestone Dealer yesterday to patch a nail hole in my Tundra. Started talking to him that my G90 is going to need new tires and he suggested the Turanza Prestige. It comes in both sizes for front and rear and is a non directional so at least I can rotate side to side. The surprising thing is that he told me the warranty is for 70K regardless of the staggered tires. So, seeing how these cars zip through tires and most manufactures cut staggered tire warranty in half I am very interested. Did some research and saw some reviews for the G80 which were positive and wanted to know if anyone has first hand experience with these tires.

I want someone to talk me out of why going to Walmart and walking away with 4 brand new tires with staggered setup for out the door of $450 is not the play.

Lexani or Lionheart at half the price with all the government and tire rating industry specs for weight and Y speed rating and solid warranties. Most likely made on the same production lines with same chemical batches. Plus you have the Walmart name and their huge footprint across the country.

Are you telling me you guys are going through cone courses to test out performance?

If I buy these tires am I going to go around a wet turn and slam into a tree or telephone pole? No way. I got a set for my Palisade and they were great and I will do the same for the G90.

These are all solid, properly speed and weight rated, quiet, industry safe and reliable tires that are black!

Worst case scenario I change them in 2 years and I am out $450 and I get a brand new new set with deep treads and the freshest rubber again, which is, when you actually think about it, higher change frequency is the safest and best performance option when all variables are on the table!

Or you spend over $1,000 and try to squeak out mileage to avoid that expense as long as possible.

 

[David-R]

Ok so decided to check myself what the warranty on Michelin and Bridgestone tires are in regards to staggered set up. They are as follows; Appears that the Bridgestone edges out Michelin on the front tires.

Bridgestone:

For tires used on staggered fitments (vehicles with different size tires between the front and rear); the front tires will have the full limited mileage warranty (if available) and the rear tires will have one-half of the stated limited mileage warranty (if available).

Michelin:

Some vehicles come from the vehicle manufacturer with “split fitments” – meaning different sizes of tires on the front and rear axles. Because these tires cannot be rotated as recommended by Michelin, the mileage warranty on each tire will cover half the number of miles as the standard mileage warranty for that particular tire design.

Thanks! That's helpful.

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[srobak]

I want someone to talk me out of why going to Walmart and walking away with 4 brand new tires with staggered setup for out the door of $450 is not the play.

Well especially for a G90 - a $70-100k car depending on when you purchased it - cheaping out on tires is absolutely not the play. Sorry - but if you can't afford to own the car, then you can't afford to buy it, either.

That being said - remember this is a premiere luxobarge, and if you take away the trinkets of it or any other luxury car - half the reason for purchase is the ride quality. Smooth, quiet, comfortable. Tranquility when laying down miles on road trips or dealing with the insanity of rush hour and the noisy, chaotic world around you.

All the cabin isolation and ANC in the world cannot compensate for shit tires making a lot of racket... and cheap, high-mileage tires are practically rock hard with one intention in mind: longevity.

That lacking absorptive property that is engineered into quality grand touring tires is going to transfer straight into the cabin between rubber slapping pavement at 70mph and the tire's resonance making it ring like a red, rubber dodgeball. Super stiff sidewalls due to that same, single-compound rubber being used to inject the entire tire mold means you are also going to feel every separation crack in the road which can even impact handling.

Next is the grip. Sure - the rock tires might get you a noticeable improvement on MPGs, and you might be able to go several years between sets of tires, and it is likely to grip really well on dry city or interstate pavement. But rocks slide more than they grip when the rain comes - not to mention the added noise of the wet. And forget about using it in snow - even with AWD.

I've been down this road in the past with other cars, living mostly in the upper midwest for my adult life, and being in the position of having to pinch pennies on tires. Every time I did I was happy with the purchase initially, on the dry drive home. But was always disappointed later for these reasons. It either showed up on my first long road trip where I got a screaming headache due to the long-term exposure to the noise, or else in the snow because I refuse to let a few inches stand in the way of what I need to do that day (that's what she said). I can tell you that putting quality rubber makes a world of difference in these areas, no matter what car you drive. But if you want to put a $400 set on your 90, then drive over to my place, I will let you take the wheel of even our minivan with CC2s. Don't be surprised when it then sounds, rides and handles better than the 90.

Yeah - sometimes you just gotta get tires on the car. If that's the position someone is in with the 90 - then they have the wrong car. This is a quality, grand touring car - and it certainly deserves quality, grand touring tires - as do the occupants. If you are not fleeting your cars - there is nothing to be gained by putting fleet-life tires on them.

 

[Riley2323]

Well especially for a G90 - a $70-100k car depending on when you purchased it - cheaping out on tires is absolutely not the play. Sorry - but if you can't afford to own the car, then you can't afford to buy it, either.

That being said - remember this is a premiere luxobarge, and if you take away the trinkets of it or any other luxury car - half the reason for purchase is the ride quality. Smooth, quiet, comfortable. Tranquility when laying down miles on road trips or dealing with the insanity of rush hour and the noisy, chaotic world around you.

All the cabin isolation and ANC in the world cannot compensate for shit tires making a lot of racket... and cheap, high-mileage tires are practically rock hard with one intention in mind: longevity.

That lacking absorptive property that is engineered into quality grand touring tires is going to transfer straight into the cabin between rubber slapping pavement at 70mph and the tire's resonance making it ring like a red, rubber dodgeball. Super stiff sidewalls due to that same, single-compound rubber being used to inject the entire tire mold means you are also going to feel every separation crack in the road which can even impact handling.

Next is the grip. Sure - the rock tires might get you a noticeable improvement on MPGs, and you might be able to go several years between sets of tires, and it is likely to grip really well on dry city or interstate pavement. But rocks slide more than they grip when the rain comes - not to mention the added noise of the wet. And forget about using it in snow - even with AWD.

I've been down this road in the past with other cars, living mostly in the upper midwest for my adult life, and being in the position of having to pinch pennies on tires. Every time I did I was happy with the purchase initially, on the dry drive home. But was always disappointed later for these reasons. It either showed up on my first long road trip where I got a screaming headache due to the long-term exposure to the noise, or else in the snow because I refuse to let a few inches stand in the way of what I need to do that day (that's what she said). I can tell you that putting quality rubber makes a world of difference in these areas, no matter what car you drive. But if you want to put a $400 set on your 90, then drive over to my place, I will let you take the wheel of even our minivan with CC2s. Don't be surprised when it then sounds, rides and handles better than the 90.

Yeah - sometimes you just gotta get tires on the car. If that's the position someone is in with the 90 - then they have the wrong car. This is a quality, grand touring car - and it certainly deserves quality, grand touring tires - as do the occupants. If you are not fleeting your cars - there is nothing to be gained by putting fleet-life tires on them.

I understand what you are saying and I will not stand for loud tires or shit grip tires. I had loud one time when I didn’t know that was a thing. It was awful. Lesson learned!

I also bought expensive Pirelli performance tires that were as soft as a baby’s bottom and wore out in about 13K miles and I actually ran over some reflectors coming off a straight away interstate on to a straight away exit ramp and kept moving laterally in the winter into the reflectors. They were completely bald. Lesson learned!

I also had expensive run flat low profile tires on BMW and low profile tires on 2017 G90….and it was nothing but flat tires on average about one a year in metro NY area. Lesson learned!

I bought the $90-ish tires at Walmart for my 20 Palisade in June. I don’t take chances on tires, because money skimped on tires is money you will spend paying your insurance deductible when you have an accident due to inclement weather or a blowout.

The tires at Walmart are perfectly fine. They have W and Y speed ratings, proper weight ratings and they are made to handle various temperature profiles, which means only rubber compounds of certain profiles will work to hit the sweet spot on the tire profile.

You can never satisfy all the variables with one batch of rubber, so every brand is making a trade off!

Having worked in production facilities and knowing a bit about changeovers and retooling machines, there is no tire corporation in the world that is going to put themselves in a position where they have multiple different batches of rubber compounds for each, brand, size, tread pattern etc. as the matrix becomes exponentially unmanageable, complex and expensive.

It will be incredibly time consuming and expensive to retool and get the batches and equipment back in spec. What they will do is alter brands and tread patterns and use different facilities to import tires for their skus of rubber profiles. All these brands and sizes and grip profile is all Madison Avenue garbage. Have you ever heard about the Kirkland golf balls that were as good as the ProV1s? There were rumors out there they were run on the same lines…and there were lawsuits. It is the same thing. Just like Cricket and Visible using the same damn ATT and Verizon network. There is just way too much money to be made getting volume profit on the populations masses as opposed to pricing profit on smaller population cohorts.

When I put the Walmart tires on I will take some decibel readings and do some brake and sharp turn tests on wet and dry services and let you know. I will also send the G90 to 130 MpH to make sure the speed profile is legit.

It won’t matter because everyone has shit subjective baselines! Decibels is about the only scientific reading I’d trust on these boards. Maybe a post to Consumer Reports, but they have probably sold out to the advertisers too.

 

[SoCalG90]

I want someone to talk me out of why going to Walmart and walking away with 4 brand new tires with staggered setup for out the door of $450 is not the play.

Lexani or Lionheart at half the price with all the government and tire rating industry specs for weight and Y speed rating and solid warranties. Most likely made on the same production lines with same chemical batches. Plus you have the Walmart name and their huge footprint across the country.

Are you telling me you guys are going through cone courses to test out performance?

If I buy these tires am I going to go around a wet turn and slam into a tree or telephone pole? No way. I got a set for my Palisade and they were great and I will do the same for the G90.

These are all solid, properly speed and weight rated, quiet, industry safe and reliable tires that are black!

Worst case scenario I change them in 2 years and I am out $450 and I get a brand new new set with deep treads and the freshest rubber again, which is, when you actually think about it, higher change frequency is the safest and best performance option when all variables are on the table!

Or you spend over $1,000 and try to squeak out mileage to avoid that expense as long as possible.

It seems as though you did not need to be talked out of it. Remember they use 'clean oil' in the manufacturing of the tires. And per their web site, they are good in "wet breaking". And yes I do expect a 'multi-national' company to get the spelling right. I mean else do they fudge on?

 

[Riley2323]

It seems as though you did not need to be talked out of it. Remember they use 'clean oil' in the manufacturing of the tires. And per their web site, they are good in "wet breaking". And yes I do expect a 'multi-national' company to get the spelling right. I mean else do they fudge on?

Who is they? Are you talking the Lexani and Lionhart websites? BTW…these are the same company…just different brand.

I could be talked out of it. @srobak has valid points. Somewhere between my arguments and srobak’s is probably the truth.

What is really needed is some sort of cement vehicle with removable ballast that they can put all tires on and do the braking, aggressive turns on dry and wet, speed test and measure decibels with very repeatable tests. You could measure slip or slide distances, braking distances, speed test success fails and wear rates. Maybe Consumer Reports did this at one point? But it’s global economy all you can rely on is feeling comfortable with memories of the Michelin man, Goodyear blimp and Firestone golf tournaments and that is about it. Don Draper did a number on us to stick us with these brands and feel uncomfortable stepping out into other brands.

 

[Gen-EV]

Ok so decided to check myself what the warranty on Michelin and Bridgestone tires are in regards to staggered set up. They are as follows; Appears that the Bridgestone edges out Michelin on the front tires.

Bridgestone:

For tires used on staggered fitments (vehicles with different size tires between the front and rear); the front tires will have the full limited mileage warranty (if available) and the rear tires will have one-half of the stated limited mileage warranty (if available).

Michelin:

Some vehicles come from the vehicle manufacturer with “split fitments” – meaning different sizes of tires on the front and rear axles. Because these tires cannot be rotated as recommended by Michelin, the mileage warranty on each tire will cover half the number of miles as the standard mileage warranty for that particular tire design.

Looks like you put in the work. I found the same variables while researching. Some did not mention staggered setup, some cut the rear warranty in half and some negated it altogether.

 

[Gen-EV]

I want someone to talk me out of why going to Walmart and walking away with 4 brand new tires with staggered setup for out the door of $450 is not the play.

Lexani or Lionheart at half the price with all the government and tire rating industry specs for weight and Y speed rating and solid warranties. Most likely made on the same production lines with same chemical batches. Plus you have the Walmart name and their huge footprint across the country.

I am of the same mindset. Why waste money on a brand name. My plan was to buy Kumho tires at a big savings over the Pirellis until tire rack ran a $200 off promo. Then the cost was close enough to consider the Pirellis.
My used the UTQG (560 A A) to inform my decision as well and the load and speed ratings. If you have the tires on your other vehicle and feel they meet your expectations, you do you.

 

[Riley2323]

I am of the same mindset. Why waste money on a brand name. My plan was to buy Kumho tires at a big savings over the Pirellis until tire rack ran a $200 off promo. Then the cost was close enough to consider the Pirellis.
My used the UTQG (560 A A) to inform my decision as well and the load and speed ratings. If you have the tires on your other vehicle and feel they meet your expectations, you do you.

Here is a 3 year old Reddit thread on Lionharts:
Reddit

You can see just all subjective opinions, but nothing jumping out for awful experiences.

Lionhart is owned by Sentury Tire, Qingdao Sentury Tire Co. LTD which is one of largest manufacture of tires; they also make aircraft tires as well, supplying Boeing 737s.

Trying to figure out who makes what where is ridiculously difficult and saying one brand is made here or there is just setting yourself up for being incorrect.

 

[SoCalG90]

I am of the same mindset. Why waste money on a brand name. My plan was to buy Kumho tires at a big savings over the Pirellis until tire rack ran a $200 off promo. Then the cost was close enough to consider the Pirellis.
My used the UTQG (560 A A) to inform my decision as well and the load and speed ratings. If you have the tires on your other vehicle and feel they meet your expectations, you do you.

UTQG numbers are created by the manufacturer. They are not independently tested. The manufacturer can perform the test however they want to get the results they want. I believe the wear rating also only applies to other tires from the same maker. But yeah, if you are happy with them, go for it. I just hope a car with those tires is not behind me in an emergency braking situation.

 

[Riley2323]

UTQG numbers are created by the manufacturer. They are not independently tested. The manufacturer can perform the test however they want to get the results they want. I believe the wear rating also only applies to other tires from the same maker. But yeah, if you are happy with them, go for it. I just hope a car with those tires is not behind me in an emergency braking situation.

My understanding is that there are safety standards

UTQG numbers are created by the manufacturer. They are not independently tested. The manufacturer can perform the test however they want to get the results they want. I believe the wear rating also only applies to other tires from the same maker. But yeah, if you are happy with them, go for it. I just hope a car with those tires is not behind me in an emergency braking situation.

My understanding is Europe requires pre-sale testing for their tires, and the US does post testing of tires.

I trust the UTQG numbers somewhat…these are major corporations and there is a major crowd sourced QA system with NHTSA, as is evidenced by NHTSA recalls tracker and complaints tracker. No post sale tire tests listed yet for LionHart or Lexani, but they are in the recall tracker with some complaints, and so is Continental, Goodyear etc. Hopefully that is a good sign of a healthy and robust tire safety ecosystem.