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Hard downshifts on a 3.3T AWD?

ashmostro

Registered Member
95
90
18
Northern Virginia
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Well it is sport mode!
I don't think that's a valid argument. Fast shifting does not have to mean poor throttle control, or in this case intentional torque overlap to create the illusion of a "sporty" shift.

Case in point - take what's considered to be the best dual clutch transmission out there, Porsches PDK. In its most aggressive settings it does not do any torque overlap because, well, that's actually bad for performance driving because it can upset the chassis and lead to traction loss mid corner. In Sport plus on a PDK, you get a faster shift, but it's still just as seamless as the more comfort oriented settings. Only the time to take the shift changes, but there is not torque overlap added.

On the other end of the scale is BMWs ridiculously exaggerated torque overlap on its M cars in sport plus (I used to own an F80 M3 and this was my biggest complaint about it on the track). They do it because street drivers who will likely never see a track think it's sporty and exciting. It literally holds both odd and even clutches at the same time for tens to hundreds of milliseconds which results in a chassis-upsetting "smack" in the butt dyno during WOT upshifts. It's silly boy-racer stuff that doesn't belong in a real performance car.
 
Last edited:

OMG70

Master Bruce!
979
1,071
93
LA/OC, California
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I don't think that's a valid argument. Fast shifting does not have to mean poor throttle control, or in this case intentional torque overlap to create the illusion of a "sporty" shift.

Case in point - take what's considered to be the best dual clutch transmission out there, Porsches PDK. In its most aggressive settings it does not do any torque overlap because, well, that's actually bad for performance driving because it can upset the chassis and lead to traction loss mid corner. In Sport plus on a PDK, you get a faster shift, but it's still just as seamless as the more comfort oriented settings. Only the time to take the shift changes, but there is not torque overlap added.

On the other end of the scale is BMWs ridiculously exaggerated torque overlap on its M cars in sport plus (I used to own an F80 M3 and this was my biggest complaint about it on the track). They do it because street drivers who will likely never see a track think it's sporty and exciting. It literally holds both odd and even clutches at the same time for tens to hundreds of milliseconds which results in a chassis-upsetting "smack" in the butt dyno during WOT upshifts. It's silly boy-racer stuff that doesn't belong in a real performance car.
You're comparing a a dual clutch to a single clutch, price points that are significantly different, and cars that are in a much higher league than the G70. The G70 is a luxury sports sedan, not a "real performance car." I wouldn't expect it to hold a torch to a Porsche or M3 (well maybe the older ones) in terms of driving performance
 

ashmostro

Registered Member
95
90
18
Northern Virginia
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I think you're missing my point, or I'm not making it clearly enough. I'm saying the downshifting behavior being described isn't, or at least shouldn't be, a desirable feature of "sport mode". It's an unnecessary one that could easily be eliminated from the shift logic of this conventional transmission.

If the torque overlap can be eliminated in a DCT and also in, say, a ZF conventional A8, etc. then it can be eliminated in this transmission too. The problem is buyers who aren't aware of the facts above often think that this is "sporty" behavior when it's not, so manufacturers engineer this behavior into their shift logic.

Is my point clearer now?
 

OMG70

Master Bruce!
979
1,071
93
LA/OC, California
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I think you're missing my point, or I'm not making it clearly enough. I'm saying the downshifting behavior being described isn't, or at least shouldn't be, a desirable feature of "sport mode". It's an unnecessary one that could easily be eliminated from the shift logic of this conventional transmission.

If the torque overlap can be eliminated in a DCT and also in, say, a ZF conventional A8, etc. then it can be eliminated in this transmission too. The problem is buyers who aren't aware of the facts above often think that this is "sporty" behavior when it's not, so manufacturers engineer this behavior into their shift logic.

Is my point clearer now?
Yep! Seems like the common problem that people don't understand that what they want is not actually what they want
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LoLaWy

New member
13
10
3
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I only notice this annoying not so smooth downshifting on the genesis cars .. no other car I’ve driven have done that!
I notice it on my G70 in all drive modes and also on my dads G80 in all drive modes
It’s not a sport mode thing!
The transmission is just retarded :)
 

Regor60

Registered Member
60
23
8
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G90
I love the downshifting character of my g90, like it has ESP and smooth
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KurticusRex

Registered Member
93
107
33
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I only notice this annoying not so smooth downshifting on the genesis cars .. no other car I’ve driven have done that!
I notice it on my G70 in all drive modes and also on my dads G80 in all drive modes
It’s not a sport mode thing!
The transmission is just retarded :)
Yeah I've definitely noticed the same. Doesn't matter is Sport or Eco or Comfort or any mode. It's most noticeable in slow / stop and go traffic when the engine RPMs are slowing to around 1200-1000 RPMs. I can feel each downshift from 4 to 3 to 2 to 1. It almost feels like when you drive a manual and you downshift and let the clutch out a *little* to quickly at the very end of the clutch pedal release.

If this is "normal" for the 3.3 AWD, then it is what it is. But it seems downshifts as slow speeds in all but Sport mode should be undetectable. I guess as long as durability and longevity aren't impacted, I can live with it. Both are unknowns at this point. I wonder if the Stinger exhibits the same transmission downshift behavior? I don't mind it as much as I feel "weird" with passengers in the car and I wonder how noticeable it is to them.
 

matpal

Registered Member
104
31
28
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I want to bump this thread because I don't think is a tuning issue or "just the way it is" because I just started noticing this at 700 miles and in Eco mode. It hasn't happened at all until now, and is not dependent on driving modes. Makes me thing something is indeed wrong.

Has anyone actually brought this issue up to their dealer?
 

joschneider

G70 Member
712
813
93
Las Vegas, NV
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I want to bump this thread because I don't think is a tuning issue or "just the way it is" because I just started noticing this at 700 miles and in Eco mode. It hasn't happened at all until now, and is not dependent on driving modes. Makes me thing something is indeed wrong.

Has anyone actually brought this issue up to their dealer?
so far both us and stinger owners have identified this as normal. Heres a huge thread on the same thing on their forum: Jerky automatic transmission shifting

Both Kia and Genesis havent said anything, but it never hurts to have them check it out to see if they think its 'normal'. I honestly think you might just be more aware of whats happening now that youre getting used to the car and can more easily feel the quirks. But if it bothers you, take it in to see what they think
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MRJONG

Registered Member
39
23
8
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
It's honestly kind of worrying that so many people are noticing it. I noticed this jerk most often when just driving around town but there was one time I was driving on the highway for about an hour or so and ran into a construction zone where we had to drive at 35mph for a while. During that construction zone my car jerked on downshifts like 3 - 4 times in a row so I think it had something to do with the temperature. I did bring this up to my dealer as well as the general clunkiness when I was getting an oil change around 6-7k miles. They held onto the car for a weekend and of course "couldn't reproduce the issue". Another issue I had was that I would get almost a burnt clutch smell after driving on the highway for a while or some spirited driving. They said that this was a normal new car smell, which I don't really believe because this G80 loaner I have only had 4k miles on it but I never smelled it.

Well lo and behold a couple of months later, my car is up/down shifting like shit. So I bring it in and they said my transmission radiator failed which caused transmission damage, I'm surprised there isn't a CEL or something for that. I'm supposed to get my car back in the next week or so, hopefully it drives normally. I can say for sure this 2018 G80 transmission feels way smoother than my G70 ever felt and I've never had a hard down shift even driving it in sport mode for a while.

It's definitely possible that my issue is different from everyone else's since other people haven't noticed the same smell I had. I think I also have more miles than most folks around here, about 10k when I started having the hard up/downshifts.
 

matpal

Registered Member
104
31
28
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Mine does it mostly when the engine has not been running for 12 or so hours and I don't have a smell.... Yet. However I do beleive the smell is indicative of the bad radiator as others have had the same issue and subsequent same repair.
 

MRJONG

Registered Member
39
23
8
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Yea I forgot to say on cold start it was more likely to happen, such as coming to a stop while leaving my neighborhood in the morning. Did you read about that smell/radiator issue in the Stinger thread posted above?
 

matpal

Registered Member
104
31
28
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Ok, I went back to get a link for you and apparently it was your thread you started, so I guess it is the only actual repair I've seen of this issue. Sorry.
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steelers84

Registered Member
67
26
18
It sounds like a lot of people have noticed this on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift (I have, as well), but has anyone noticed it on the 1-2 and 2-3 upshift? My car only has 400 miles on it and the upshifts on a "cold" (started for 5-10 minutes) start are VERY jerky. It happens on both upshifts and downshifts so the car is just a jerky mess until I can get it up to 30+ MPH. It does seem to get better (though not perfect) when the car is warmed up.
 

OMG70

Master Bruce!
979
1,071
93
LA/OC, California
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
It sounds like a lot of people have noticed this on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift (I have, as well), but has anyone noticed it on the 1-2 and 2-3 upshift? My car only has 400 miles on it and the upshifts on a "cold" (started for 5-10 minutes) start are VERY jerky. It happens on both upshifts and downshifts so the car is just a jerky mess until I can get it up to 30+ MPH. It does seem to get better (though not perfect) when the car is warmed up.
Is this at like 10% throttle or going flat out?
 

matpal

Registered Member
104
31
28
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
It sounds like a lot of people have noticed this on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift (I have, as well), but has anyone noticed it on the 1-2 and 2-3 upshift? My car only has 400 miles on it and the upshifts on a "cold" (started for 5-10 minutes) start are VERY jerky. It happens on both upshifts and downshifts so the car is just a jerky mess until I can get it up to 30+ MPH. It does seem to get better (though not perfect) when the car is warmed up.
Yes, I am in the same boat. Figure I'll wait to have them check it out at the 1st oil change.
 
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