How much early adopter risk?

[Deebow]

After being pretty impressed with a G90 test drive, I started thinking and researching a potential purchase. The car itself is nice, a significant upgrade over the Equus, but the presale experience at this point is pure Hyundai. That is to say, not very premium and not differentiated. It got me wondering- how long will it take for Genesis to really deliver the premium service and ownership experience that is being advertised? Then I saw this article-
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/11/hyundai-genesis-motors-boss-wants-fewer-usa-dealers/
and some alarm bells started ringing. Does this mean the dealer I buy a Genesis from next week might not be a Genesis dealer next year when I need service? I think this was a confusing and basically dumb announcement to make. And if there continue to be false starts with the low cost, slow motion rollout that Genesis seems to be taking, being an early buyer may not be the way to go.

 

[dougjp]

You make some very good points, and the one that hits home here in Canada most is the " slow motion rollout". Especially for us in Canada after reading this one that you may have seen;

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/11/no-genesis-dealers-in-canada-usa-too-many-genesis-dealers/

In my opinion, Genesis has to "get the lead out" so to speak with a comprehensive detailed launch strategy, with no obvious questions unanswered. As they have supposedly now officially begun as Genesis, this must happen within days. Until this happens, early adopter risk is obvious.

 

[jemanner]

Spoke with a very knowledgeable (and friendly) Genesis representative yesterday (on Sunday, no less!), and they do not anticipate having their standalone dealer network fully in place until 2020. So that is a big worry, as a sales/servicing Hyundai dealer that is now only 30 miles, may be replaced with a Genesis dealer at a much greater distance. Any warranty work would be a pain, and so much for the concierge service.

 

[Mark_888]

Anyone who is worried about "dealer experience" should probably pass on a Genesis at this time. Personally, when I saw this thread title, I thought the OP would be talking about the risk of buying a new design, which may have some mechanical and technology kinks not yet worked out yet. I was a little surprised that the concern was really about the "dealer experience."

Personally, I avoid auto dealers as much as possible. I would prefer zero dealer experience. I do my own oil changes, or have them done by a reputable shop (hard to find), just to avoid going to a dealer. Obviously, there are some things a dealer must handle, such as warranty repairs and recalls, and IMO it is best to have transmission service done at a dealer, especially for a low volume car like a Genesis.

I am reasonably sure that the Genesis dealer experience will eventually be roughly on par with their competition when all their dedicated dealers are in place, but the prices charged for the Genesis brand vehicles (not necessarily limited to MSRP increases, but also taking into account availability of dealer discounts) will rise accordingly to pay for that. There is no free lunch, someone has to pay. I would be happy to purchase from a Hyundai dealer right now if I were able to get a steep discount, rather than pay more later on for significantly improved dealer experience.

Also, people tend to talk about this subject like Hyundai Motors can just waive a magic wand and make things happen. In the USA, dealers are required by law to be separate from the manufacturers, and it takes someone willing to invest millions of dollars to start a Genesis dealership. Hyundai can provide some assistance, but it still takes someone willing to make a huge investment, and they need a lot those kinds of investments to build a complete network across the country. In markets where there is little competition (only one Genesis dealer), then customers are going to have to pay even more.

I remember about 18 years ago I was looking at a Toyota Camry V6 XLE vs a Lexus ES300. They both had the exact same drivetrain, but the Lexus was definitely nicer (better soundproofing, etc). The Lexus MSRP was about $4K higher price than the Camry, but I decided that the Lexus extras were worth the difference. However, once I started talking to dealers about prices, I realized that Toyota dealers would discount their cars by about $2K more than the discount given by Lexus dealers, so that made the real difference $6K and I decided that was not really worth it, and I bought the Camry. I wish I could have bought the Lexus from a Toyota dealer for $2K less.

 

[bigdaveinomaha]

I also like sitting on a comfy couch when getting my oil changed, but I'm curious about how much time you all actually spend in a dealership throughout the life of ownership? I ask because I can say I've owned my 2013 R'Spec since August of 2013 and I've spent a total of about 6 hours inside a dealership, all just waiting for oil changes/tire rotations. I did have one minor thing that needed to be fixed but was given a loaner for the day, and I didn't even buy the car at that dealership. So I'm wondering why so much is put on the dealership experience? Am I just lucky to have hardly any issues with my vehicle? Or maybe it's my naiveté since I've never owned an Audi/BMW/Mercedes and I don't know what good looks like? Would I like to have a nice cup of expresso when I go in for an oil change? Sure! But I'm not going to spend $20k extra on a car to get it. IMO, Genesis, like Hyundai, is about value in the given segment. It appears Genesis put their money into materials of the vehicle instead of espresso machines. I respect that.

 

[dougjp]

I also like sitting on a comfy couch when getting my oil changed, but I'm curious about how much time you all actually spend in a dealership throughout the life of ownership? I ask because I can say I've owned my 2013 R'Spec since August of 2013 and I've spent a total of about 6 hours inside a dealership, all just waiting for oil changes/tire rotations. I did have one minor thing that needed to be fixed but was given a loaner for the day, and I didn't even buy the car at that dealership. So I'm wondering why so much is put on the dealership experience? Am I just lucky to have hardly any issues with my vehicle? Or maybe it's my naiveté since I've never owned an Audi/BMW/Mercedes and I don't know what good looks like? Would I like to have a nice cup of expresso when I go in for an oil change? Sure! But I'm not going to spend $20k extra on a car to get it. IMO, Genesis, like Hyundai, is about value in the given segment. It appears Genesis put their money into materials of the vehicle instead of espresso machines. I respect that.

That's a pretty succinct and complete summary right there about how Hyundai and especially Genesis intend to compete. I dare say a Audi/BMW/Mercedes experience would have a higher net cost. Much higher.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Spoke with a very knowledgeable (and friendly) Genesis representative yesterday (on Sunday, no less!), and they do not anticipate having their standalone dealer network fully in place until 2020. So that is a big worry, as a sales/servicing Hyundai dealer that is now only 30 miles, may be replaced with a Genesis dealer at a much greater distance. Any warranty work would be a pain, and so much for the concierge service.

Have you considered the Buick LaCrosse? I think that would be a good, reasonably priced luxury alternative to the Genesis G80 if you're looking for a more established dealer network.

 

[jemanner]

Have you considered the Buick LaCrosse? I think that would be a good, reasonably priced luxury alternative to the Genesis G80 if you're looking for a more established dealer network.

Thanks! Just took a look-see on the Buick website, and reviewed the CR driving report. Indeed, not a bad vehicle, and available with AWD, a requirement. Have always envisioned Buick as a car only for the elderly. Come to think of it, I are one now. However, it's been a LONG time since owning an American car, but possibly...

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Thanks! Just took a look-see on the Buick website, and reviewed the CR driving report. Indeed, not a bad vehicle, and available with AWD, a requirement. Have always envisioned Buick as a car only for the elderly. Come to think of it, I are one now. However, it's been a LONG time since owning an American car, but possibly...

It really is a nice car. I'd probably have one if it weren't for the Genesis. I have a very good Genesis dealership not far from my home so I don't mind visiting the service center when I need to. When you get some spare time - sign up at the Buick forum and see what others are saying about the LaCrosse...

 

[YEH]

Thanks! Just took a look-see on the Buick website, and reviewed the CR driving report. Indeed, not a bad vehicle, and available with AWD, a requirement. Have always envisioned Buick as a car only for the elderly. Come to think of it, I are one now. However, it's been a LONG time since owning an American car, but possibly...

By all accounts the new Lacrosse is good (esp. the higher end version w/ the upgraded suspension).

Like the new Kia Cadenza as well, but no AWD and same problem w/ dealerships.

But keep in mind that H/K dealerships vary widely - some are comparable to luxury dealerships and some have built out a separate, exclusive waiting lounge for Genesis/Equus (and now Genesis) owners.

Right now, all Hyundai dealerships will continue to sell the G80, but by the time the next generation G80 arrives, only the dealership selected/approved for the Genesis brand will carry the new G80 as well as the rest of the Genesis lineup (so should be pretty safe if going to a Hyundai dealership that sells the G90).

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[jemanner]

By all accounts the new Lacrosse is good (esp. the higher end version w/ the upgraded suspension).

Just stopped by the dealer (Why did I have to get a high-pressure know-it-all-salesman?) and kicked the tires on a high-end Lacrosse AWD. Not a bad vehicle, but a Genesis it is not. Sadly, the upgraded front suspension is not available on the AWD. Strut, not the excellent Genesis 5-Link. Then add in this is the first year of a major redesign. Admittedly, I'm an old guy, but still don't know if I'm ready to accept a Buick with the side "ports", even at 75. LOL! Finally, not yet convinced Variable Cylinder Management is a good thing.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Just stopped by the dealer (Why did I have to get a high-pressure know-it-all-salesman?) and kicked the tires on a high-end Lacrosse AWD. Not a bad vehicle, but a Genesis it is not. Sadly, the upgraded front suspension is not available on the AWD. Strut, not the excellent Genesis 5-Link. Then add in this is the first year of a major redesign. Admittedly, I'm an old guy, but still don't know if I'm ready to accept a Buick with the side "ports", even at 75. LOL! Finally, not yet convinced Variable Cylinder Management is a good thing.

You MAY not like the start/stop technology that you can't turn off either. Here's an interesting article to read with some information on the new Buick LaCrosse:
http://buickforums.com/buick-magazine/buick-lacrosse-luxury-sedan-50k/

You're right, though... The LaCrosse is no Genesis...

 

[jemanner]

You MAY not like the start/stop technology that you can't turn off either. Here's an interesting article to read with some information on the new Buick LaCrosse:
http://buickforums.com/buick-magazine/buick-lacrosse-luxury-sedan-50k/

Great article. Thanks! I wonder if the start/stop cannot be turned off, period, or reinstates itself at every new trip? I have found this to be the case on several vehicles. And of course the manufacturers are installing heavier-duty starters for this new feature? Right!

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Great article. Thanks! I wonder if the start/stop cannot be turned off, period, or reinstates itself at every new trip? I have found this to be the case on several vehicles. And of course the manufacturers are installing heavier-duty starters for this new feature? Right!

I haven't heard any issues about starters so I imagine they've done something to beef them up - but I'm not sure what they've done. And unfortunately - you cannot turn off the feature in the LaCrosse. I don't feel it should be a deal breaker unless you've driven in a car that's had it and didn't like it...