I avoid 10% Ethanol. Now 15% Ethanol is coming??

[Driv200]

Some idiot in Washington is proposing Ethanol of 15%. H claims less dependent on foreign oil and cheaper prices? What a moron!!!!!!

You get less mileage and cause long term wear & tear on your engine. Most cars are not built for any ethanol. The uninformed public pulls into the cheapest gas on the corner and fills up anyway. I was charged a $30 additive fee on my last Genesis when had it in for service. Other resources are more expensive b/c of cost to produce ethanol which effects us. I can't believe the idiots in Washington who come up with this stuff when it does nothing to solve the gas crisis. SERIOUSLY!

Is it just me? I am not a gas expert. I would like some rebuttal to inform me of anything I might not know.

 

[427435]

Take a deep breath. Now breath.

First, E15 may or may not amount to anything. However, E10 has been all that has been available in Minnesota (and many other Midwestern states) for many years. It does reduce pollution (it's an oxygenate) and dependence on foreign oil.

There are a lot of horror stories being floated around about the harm it does based on a couple of true situations and a whole lot of internet hype.

Problem one is in old boats with fiberglass fuel tanks (I don't think car owners have to worry about that).

Problem two is what can happen the first time it is used in a car that has been running on "pure" gas for a long time. Water will collect in the bottom of such a car's fuel tank and, when E10 is introduced, phase separation can occur if there is enough water.

Beyond those two specific problems, you must also properly handle E10-----just like pure gas. Leaving it sit in 5 gallon cans with poor caps will cause problems with either fuel.

My collection of engines includes a large commercial lawn mower, 3 garden tractors, a McCulloch chain saw from the 60's, a 1977 boat with an I/O drive, a 1967 Corvette, a 1977 Scout, a 2000 motorhome with an Onan genset, plus my "regular" vehicles.

The only fuel or fuel system problem I've ever had was in the boat-----------before E10 was around. I found the carb all "snotted" up one spring due to water.

 

[Driv200]

Okay, I'm breathing. Was on my soap box. But not sold on any of your points. Having to fill up more often b/c of less gas mileage does not solve dependacy on foreign oil.

I travel for my job and it's hard finding a gas station in unfamiliar territory that sell "non ethanol" gasoline. It erks me every time I am on empty trying to find gas and the only thing in site is ethanol. Loving my Rspec like I do, I'm not a fan of giving it some liberal watered down gas. Don't get me started on filling up my 30' Cobalt boat with twin 496mag HO big blocks.

Thanks for the info.

 

[pusaterkm]

I avoid E10 gasolines. Genny 4.6 runs way better on pure high octane gas. Now in my wife's Toyota Venza, the E10 is fine if I pull into a station and that is what they are selling.

 

[redrum]

You do know that many states don't have a law that say a gas station have to tell you what is inside the gas so in turn they can lie.

 

[wallymn]

Take a deep breath. Now breath.

First, E15 may or may not amount to anything. However, E10 has been all that has been available in Minnesota (and many other Midwestern states) for many years. It does reduce pollution (it's an oxygenate) and dependence on foreign oil.

There are a lot of horror stories being floated around about the harm it does based on a couple of true situations and a whole lot of internet hype.

Problem one is in old boats with fiberglass fuel tanks (I don't think car owners have to worry about that).

Problem two is what can happen the first time it is used in a car that has been running on "pure" gas for a long time. Water will collect in the bottom of such a car's fuel tank and, when E10 is introduced, phase separation can occur if there is enough water.

Beyond those two specific problems, you must also properly handle E10-----just like pure gas. Leaving it sit in 5 gallon cans with poor caps will cause problems with either fuel.

My collection of engines includes a large commercial lawn mower, 3 garden tractors, a McCulloch chain saw from the 60's, a 1977 boat with an I/O drive, a 1967 Corvette, a 1977 Scout, a 2000 motorhome with an Onan genset, plus my "regular" vehicles.

The only fuel or fuel system problem I've ever had was in the boat-----------before E10 was around. I found the carb all "snotted" up one spring due to water.

there are shops in MN that still sell 100% gas... you will pay more but when I am near a couple places I know sell it, I fill up.

 

[msitter]

Go to puregas.org. It has a constantly updated list of stations that sell only 100% dinosaur gasoline. It lists city and state, gps location and what grades they sell. Hope this helps.

 

[jnc2000]

I avoid E10 gasolines. Genny 4.6 runs way better on pure high octane gas. Now in my wife's Toyota Venza, the E10 is fine if I pull into a station and that is what they are selling.

You do realize there are very few stations in Youngstown / Boardman area that do not sell which is not already blended with ethanol. You can count on almost all of your large chains - and if you ask nicely they'll show your the latest order sheet.

Pure gas is a rarity in our area... I have no problem getting 25-26 on every tank... and seeing upwards of 28, even 29 if I'm nice from my local Exxon or Shell.

 

[427435]

Okay, I'm breathing. Was on my soap box. But not sold on any of your points. Having to fill up more often b/c of less gas mileage does not solve dependacy on foreign oil.

I travel for my job and it's hard finding a gas station in unfamiliar territory that sell "non ethanol" gasoline. It erks me every time I am on empty trying to find gas and the only thing in site is ethanol. Loving my Rspec like I do, I'm not a fan of giving it some liberal watered down gas. Don't get me started on filling up my 30' Cobalt boat with twin 496mag HO big blocks.

Thanks for the info.

You wouldn't be filling up much more often with E10 as it has 97% of the BTU's that pure gas does.

As far as your boat, despite the hit to your wallet at the end of a boating day, the smart thing to do is fill the tanks back up------regardless whether you're using E10 or pure gas.

Premium E10 fuel will run just fine in a Genesis. If not, there wouldn't be many sold in the Midwest as E10 is about all one can find.

 

[Mark63021]

No clue as to whether the facts stated in the below Cornell paper remain accurate or have been refuted since its publication 11 years ago, but even if it's partially correct, it makes one wonder why we spend a dollar to save a dime -which is essentially what E-based fuels do in the big picture. I suppose it's not surprising that our elected officials who seem barely to understand micro- would attempt to grasp macroeconomics.
http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/01/8.23.01/Pimentel-ethanol.html

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[427435]

The data is very outdated. Worse, the data used was very slanted. A prime example is that the "study" ignored the value of the distiller's grain that is left over from the ethanol process----------a livestock feed grain of considerable value. Instead, Pimentel (who has a long history of a personal dislike for ethanol from grain) chose to ignore that and assign all energy costs of producing the corn to the ethanol process instead of dividing it between ethanol and the distiller's grain.

With today's refining process (much improved from 10 years ago), there is between 1.5 and 2 BTU's of fuel produced for each BTU input. Even more important, most of that input BTU comes from coal and natural gas-------fuels that don't work well in today's cars!!

 

[pusaterkm]

You do realize there are very few stations in Youngstown / Boardman area that do not sell which is not already blended with ethanol. You can count on almost all of your large chains - and if you ask nicely they'll show your the latest order sheet.

Pure gas is a rarity in our area... I have no problem getting 25-26 on every tank... and seeing upwards of 28, even 29 if I'm nice from my local Exxon or Shell.

Shell V-Power is Ethanol free. I always run Premium, so why not Shell V-Power. And it may just be my imagination, but I like the way Genny runs on the V-Power. And... there are Shells all over Boardman including one at Glenwood and Western Reserve by my house. Try it in your R-Sepc and see if you like it.

Also, I think we passed each other a couple of weeks ago when I was pulling out of the HOTV Office on Market Street.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Shell V-Power is Ethanol free. I always run Premium, so why not Shell V-Power. And it may just be my imagination, but I like the way Genny runs on the V-Power. And... there are Shells all over Boardman including one at Glenwood and Western Reserve by my house. Try it in your R-Sepc and see if you like it.

Also, I think we passed each other a couple of weeks ago when I was pulling out of the HOTV Office on Market Street.

Shell V-Power non-oxygenated is my favorite fuel, but it is not ethanol-free everywhere in Minnesota. Almost everywhere in WI, but not metro Twin Cities.

 

[Driv200]

Thanks for comments. I like the link to find pure gas stations. Best comment so far was "why spend $1 to save a dime.". Perfect.

I think the E10 game plays on UNINFORMED public and non car lovers. I can use this UNINFORMED theory to describe liberals too. . Uh oh......

Shell gas here in OK is all E10. My Rspec seems sensitive to anything less than premium. A least for my heavy foot.

 

[rldillon]

Seems you are pulling numbers out of the air ----- in my research I find:


The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.

You wouldn't be filling up much more often with E10 as it has 97% of the BTU's that pure gas does.

As far as your boat, despite the hit to your wallet at the end of a boating day, the smart thing to do is fill the tanks back up------regardless whether you're using E10 or pure gas.

Premium E10 fuel will run just fine in a Genesis. If not, there wouldn't be many sold in the Midwest as E10 is about all one can find.

 

[Driv200]

Nice Rldillion.

 

[427435]

Seems you are pulling numbers out of the air ----- in my research I find:


The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.

Well, the copy/paste loses the formatting, so just go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

If you want to be picky, I should have said a gallon of E10 has 96.7% of the BTU's of 100% gasoline instead of 97%.

I'm sure you can measure your mpg accurately enough to tell the difference between 97% and 96.7%!!



GGE - Gasoline Gallon Equivalent (US Gallons) tables
GGE Calculated for Gasoline in US Gallons at 114,000 BTU per Gallon Fuel - Liquid, US Gallons GGE GGE % BTU/Gal kWh/Gal
Gasoline (base)[2] 1.0000 100.00% 114,000 33.41
Gasoline (conventional, summer)[2] 0.9960 100.40% 114,500 33.56
Gasoline (conventional, winter)[2] 1.0130 98.72% 112,500 32.97
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ethanol)[2] 1.0190 98.14% 111,836 32.78
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ETBE)[2] 1.0190 98.14% 111,811 32.77
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, MTBE)[2] 1.0200 98.04% 111,745 32.75
Gasoline (10% MBTE)[3] 1.0200 98.04% 112,000 32.83
Gasoline (regular unleaded)[4] 1.0000 100.00% 114,100 33.44
Diesel #2[4] 0.8800 113.64% 129,500 37.95
Biodiesel (B100)[4] 0.9600 104.17% 118,300 34.80
Bio Diesel (B20)[4] 0.9000 111.11% 127,250 37.12
Liquid natural gas (LNG)[4] 1.5362 65.10% 75,000 21.75
Liquefied petroleum gas (propane) (LPG)[4] 1.3500 74.04% 84,300 24.75
Methanol fuel (M100)[4] 2.0100 49.75% 56,800 16.62
Ethanol fuel (E100)[4] 1.5000 66.67% 76,100 22.27
Ethanol (E85)[4] 1.3900 71.94% 81,800 24.04
Jet fuel (naphtha)[5] 0.9700 103.09% 118,700 34.44

 

[Waki]

GET A GRIP !
10% is all we have in Canada and it works just great in my 2009 Gennie & now my 2012. It also works just fine in my tractor, snow blower, leaf blower and weed whacker. You guys are hearing ghosts...
It's a particularly great fuel in winter.

 

[Driv200]

Get a grip? When you have no choice, that's all you can do. We have choices here. Sure it works, but at a higher cost with less performance.

Thx for chiming in.

 

[Top Gear]

Also, remember there's a BIG difference between the "Top Tier" gasolines and the rest, regardless of their ethanol blend. Shell V-Power isn't automatically ethanol-free today, as someone said, at least not in the Southeast, where it's nearly guaranteed to be "E10". Yet, E10 from Shell, Chevron, Exxon, Petro Canada and many other Top Tier brands have the advanced additives and detergents to counteract some or all of the effects of the corn gunk, at least at E10 levels.