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Idle stop & go

JB1944

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
6
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2
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Genesis Model Year
2023
Genesis Model Type
Genesis GV70
Just spent a week with my incredible GV70. What an SUV. I would like to know what you think of the idle stop & go feature. Is it that economical to use? I've been using it since I got the vehicle, but my inclination is to turn it off. Could I have some feedback on this one please?
 
The idea of idle stop and go is to reduce emissions. It's arguable if it saves any fuel but that would depend how long you are stopped.
 
The idea of idle stop and go is to reduce emissions. It's arguable if it saves any fuel but that would depend how long you are stopped.
Absolutely. There are some very long lights here that would save some fuel. There are plenty of trips I've made that could be hundreds of miles but only a few very short stops. It will vary greatly depending on your usual driving habits. When I was working, my commute was 24 miles. The route had 3 traffic lights and 3 stop signs. The lights not very long. Minimal savingsfor me. There is a four mile trip I make here frequently. The time stopped if I catch the lights wrong is probably four times longer than the 34 mile trip.
 
Jason at Engineering Explained on Youtube did a discussion on this topic. Is Having A Start-Stop System Worth It? | Is Having A Start-Stop System Worth It? | By Engineering Explained | Facebook

Data he offered suggests it take about 7 seconds worth of fuel usage while idling to start up the same engine.

My Stinger has the ISG enabled by default and I absolutely hate it. My concern with it is that if you use the system as it is designed to do, you'll start driving away a split second after the engine has restarted. Even when the engine is fully warmed up and the motor oil at optimum operating temp, there is just no way oil pressure can built fast enough to flood all bearing surfaces with sufficient oil for proper thin film lubrication to take effect in less than a second. You are relying strictly on residual oil film clinging onto to the bearing surfaces to reduce startup engine wear.

Now, I have absolutely no problem with this whenever I need to start up my engine when I first get in my car, because there is just no way around that. It is a necessary evil that an engine has to be endure. ISG, to me, is an unnecessary evil I'd gladly burn a bit of gasoline to avoid entirely. I'd much rather make up the difference by hypermilling while driving in traffic. So that's what I do.

So glad the G70 6MT doesn't have this ISG.
 
My Stinger has the ISG enabled by default and I absolutely hate it. My concern with it is that if you use the system as it is designed to do, you'll start driving away a split second after the engine has restarted. Even when the engine is fully warmed up and the motor oil at optimum operating temp, there is just no way oil pressure can built fast enough to flood all bearing surfaces with sufficient oil for proper thin film lubrication to take effect in less than a second. You are relying strictly on residual oil film clinging onto to the bearing surfaces to reduce startup engine wear.
You bring up a good point, however, how critical is it? Most of the time you are stopped foe about 45 to 90 seconds. Has it lost enough oil to be concerned? The engine warranty is still 100,000 miles so the Hyundai/Genesis engineers are not too concerned.

From a few articles I've read, seems little concern
 
You bring up a good point, however, how critical is it? Most of the time you are stopped foe about 45 to 90 seconds. Has it lost enough oil to be concerned? The engine warranty is still 100,000 miles so the Hyundai/Genesis engineers are not too concerned.

From a few articles I've read, seems little concern
If the stops on your commute route are all about 45 to 90 secs, then that might work for you. Although, not sure whether I would consider that a good thing or not.

On my own commute route, I don't have that many lights, and I usually try my best to time my approach to minimize having to sit at the light. Still, on average, I would say each light is maybe 10-15 seconds or less, which means 1/2 of them are not worth activating the ISG, if you go by Jason's 7 sec rule.

Still, what irritates most are not those redlight stops, but those very short stops, like arriving at a stop sign with no cross traffic, where I stop for at most a second or 2 before moving. The ISG doesn't know that and would shut down the engine, only to fire it right back up. Even disregarding the wear and tear, I just wasted 5-6 secs worth of idle fuel usage on that pointless ISG trigger. Same thing applies to crawling in traffic. The car doesn't know how long it would be for each stop I make, so it shuts down the engine almost every time even if I'm just creeping forward in stop and go traffic. It gets awfully annoying, and waste more fuel than it saves.

All this, of course, is assuming the wear and tear is negligible. I am sure that is true with each of those ISG firings. I am equally sure that while each firing might be negligible, it isn't nothing. Over time, all those negligible wear and tear will eventually add to something approaching non-negligible.

I highly doubt the Hyundai/Genesis engineers who implemented this system really cared that much about the long-term wear and tear of my engine. This was corporate decision done purely to improve the EPA mpg and emissions ratings of the car, since the test loops are conducted with all drive settings on default. This is why on my Stinger, as it is on just about every one of these systems, the default ISG setting is ON, and the driver has to manual disengage it, if he/she so wishes.

At the end of the day, if you the owner likes the ISG, by all means use it. I myself will not.
 
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It's a gimmick IMO, especially if you try to time stop lights, rather than rocket to the next light and having to stop; MUCH more fuel efficient that way :). If you only stop for a second or two, it's actually worse for fuel consumption, the environment, the battery, the starter, and the engine. Plus if you have A/C on, it'd restart immediately, defeating the purpose. I always turn it off on my '22 SF Calligraphy, as part of my start-up routine, along with selecting sport mode. By the way, this is the G70 forum, so I'd move to the GV70 forum, for better answers :). Enjoy it.
 
Absolutely. There are some very long lights here that would save some fuel. There are plenty of trips I've made that could be hundreds of miles but only a few very short stops. It will vary greatly depending on your usual driving habits. When I was working, my commute was 24 miles. The route had 3 traffic lights and 3 stop signs. The lights not very long. Minimal savingsfor me. There is a four mile trip I make here frequently. The time stopped if I catch the lights wrong is probably four times longer than the 34 mile trip.

Yeah, true enough. In comparison to the fuel my 3.3T uses under acceleration, it's a moot point for me since my car always needs to beat everyone. 😂
 
That Facebook video posted by Volfy is the first review I've seen where start-stop fuel measurements were made. From the video, it's pretty clear that the Idle-Start-Stop does save fuel. But my concern has always been, not so much on the fuel savings, but on the cost of replacing a starter motor. If I save $100 in fuel cost, that's great, but if I then have to spend $1000 to replace the starter motor because it was used so often, then that's just crazy and not cost-effective at all.

The video did mention that auto engineers have designed the starter motor to have a longer lifetime. But I've never read anything about that. If anyone has any information about how the engineers have accomplished that little feat, I would be interested in learning about it. Until then, I will continue to disable my GV80s idle-start-stop feature....
 
That Facebook video posted by Volfy is the first review I've seen where start-stop fuel measurements were made. From the video, it's pretty clear that the Idle-Start-Stop does save fuel. But my concern has always been, not so much on the fuel savings, but on the cost of replacing a starter motor. If I save $100 in fuel cost, that's great, but if I then have to spend $1000 to replace the starter motor because it was used so often, then that's just crazy and not cost-effective at all.

The video did mention that auto engineers have designed the starter motor to have a longer lifetime. But I've never read anything about that. If anyone has any information about how the engineers have accomplished that little feat, I would be interested in learning about it. Until then, I will continue to disable my GV80s idle-start-stop feature....

There are probably 50 articles about the starter system



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Gentlemen,

This forum, and your participation and advice is excellent. Thank you for all the ISG comments. I have decided to turn my system off.
 
There are probably 50 articles about the starter system



Thanks Ed. I'll read those....
 
EdP: I read several of your references and one, in particular, caught my attention. It was a 2015 Argonne National Laboratory study, entitled "Stop and Start Effects on Modern Vehicle Starting System Components--Longevity and Economic Factors" that was referenced in the 'Power Electronics Tips" link.

The article talks about start-stop cycles in modern (well...as of 2015) vehicles and there's lots of stuff in it. One of the findings referring to batteries & starter motors:

6.2 Best Practices
▫ Designed for >30,000 cycles ▫ ▫ 10-year/100,000-mile life (at normal duty
cycles) ▫ ▫ Increased start cycles have limited impact
on life unless extreme (>20 cycle per day) ▫ High temperatures accelerate failure
▫ Often outlasts the life of vehicle
▫ $200–1,500 replacement cost
Starter System Points of Interest
Recharges battery between starts
Increased start cycles have no impact on life unless battery is excessively discharged between starts
Figure 17:
Stop and Restart Effects on Modern Vehicle Starting System Components
Starter Battery
  • ▫ 5-year average life
  • ▫ Designed for high-power, low-duration use
  • ▫ Increased start cycles have minimal impact on life
  • ▫ Accessory use with engine off shortens life
  • ▫ Full charge must be maintained for
Starter Motor Alternator
Because of the various contributing factors including the differences in vehicle uses, vehicle types, environments, and other factors, the decision to idle the engine for a short period, or to shut the engine off and restart it, is not a simple one. Even so, this study concluded that the majority of drivers of light-duty vehicles could improve their fuel efficiency and reduce fuel costs with minimal, if any, noticeable reduction in the life of starter system components by eliminating some short-duration idling throughout the day. To optimize fuel consumption and reduce the potential for component damage, typical drivers should adhere to the following guidelines:
  •  Limit engine start cycles to approximately 10 total cycles per day, on average. Occasionally cycling the starter system more than this will not cause damage unless it becomes a long-term trend.
  •  Assuming seven additional cycles per day are not exceeded (assumed ten total cycles per day), any shutdown with a duration in excess of one minute will result in overall cost savings.
  •  Limit electric accessory use during shutdowns, particularly during longer shutdown periods.
  •  Drive more than five miles between start cycles to ensure the battery is fully charged.

    This study indicates 10-20 start-stops each trip won't have much effect on starter life, but 30 or more do. How many stoplights do we encounter in a day's commute/shopping trip?
 
EdP: I read several of your references and one, in particular, caught my attention. It was a 2015 Argonne National Laboratory study, entitled "Stop and Start Effects on Modern Vehicle Starting System Components--Longevity and Economic Factors" that was referenced in the 'Power Electronics Tips" link.


This study indicates 10-20 start-stops each trip won't have much effect on starter life, but 30 or more do. How many stoplights do we encounter in a day's commute/shopping trip?

[/LIST]
In my case, none for grocery shopping. Other trips three or four. I'd be selective when I'd use it.
 
I was watching a GR Suprea B58 engine tear down video and came across a bit of commentary regarding Idle Stop & Go, which reminded me of this thread. He talked about the engine main bearings been coated to prevent excessive wear due to ISG. It's at around the 11:55 mark, if you don't care to watch the whole video.

I'm not going to rehash the argument. You either believe it's okay to use ISG, or not. I was simply intrigued to hear an engine builder comment on engine internal features being related to the prevalence of ISG, and see those feature(s) displayed.
 
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