Looking for advice on my next sedan purchase...

[busterbrown]

I'm in the market for a replacement vehicle. I currently own a well equipped 2017 Chrysler 300S AWD 3.6L (nav, panoramic sun roof, adapt cruise, lane keep). It's been a great car for the 3 years i've owned it but it's been a little long in the tooth on an aging platform. Looking for something a little more modern with a dependable, more powerful powertrain. I've scouted three vehicles that I like:

1. 2020 Genesis G70 AWD 3.3T (new) with Elite & Prestige pkgs. ($40,500 + TTL).
2. 2021 Cadillac CT4-V, 2.7T AWD (new) with tech, comfort, navigation, and wheel pkgs (everything in the G70 plus massaging seats). ($49,200 + TTL).
3. 2020 Alfa Romeo Guilia Ti Sport 2.0L AWD (used with 2000 miles), with driver assistance, wheel, and leather pkg (nicely equipped) ($42,000 + TTL).

I've driven all three. Like all three for different reasons. The Genesis has the biggest powerplant and best acceleration, top in comfort too. The warranty service and complimentary/valet maintenance program is better with Genesis. The Caddy has the most modern looking "all digital" gauge cluster. The infotainment screen is the same size as the Genesis (8") but is more responsive and has better pixel density/resolution. The Alfa has the best chassis and steering of all the three. It's truly a driver's car. Unfortunately, it lacks some of the features of the other two (no HUD, tech is older, smaller displacement engine...less power).

As this is a Genesis forum, looking for feedback (both biased and unbiased) from current G70 owners as to why the Genesis would be the better choice. How does resale value, residual, and MSRP benefit the Genesis brand over the other two?

Any comments or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[Husky]

Good choices, good questions. I haven't had the pleasure of driving the Caddy or the Alfa, but I know the pros like Car & Driver editors rave about the chassis on both.
I'm sure you're aware that the Alfa may be less reliable (and/or harder to get properly serviced) than the others.
In the latest issue of C&D they did a feature story on the latest Caddy CT4-V and CT5-V, although they were the Blackwing models. They loved them.
What other factors are important to you - back seat room, trunk space, warranty...?
The Genesis 3.3 will definitely be the most powerful, although the 2.7L Caddy won't be far behind, and might be lighter.
Pricewise, when I did a build of the Caddy on their website, it was more like $55k.
Which do you like the looks of best?

 

[Jlapaglia]

I cross shopped an AWD ATS V (had a 2.0 ATS sedan prior to the g70 3.3 sport). It drove very nice and seemed to be a big improvement over the ats I had previously. I think the g70 overall just drives better with the turbo 6 cylinder and for a lot less money. I was told the caddy would have a 54%ish residual after 3 years. Also for me, the interior and exterior were just too similar looking to the car I already had which didn’t help justifying paying more per month.

Also, not sure if it matters much to you, the Genesis having included maintenance and a longer warranty was a big factor too.

Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong with either as long as they have the features you want at a price you like.

Edit: I also wanted to drive the Alfa but knew I wanted more hp so I just didn’t bother with it lol.

 

[busterbrown]

Good choices, good questions. I haven't had the pleasure of driving the Caddy or the Alfa, but I know the pros like Car & Driver editors rave about the chassis on both.
I'm sure you're aware that the Alfa may be less reliable (and/or harder to get properly serviced) than the others.
In the latest issue of C&D they did a feature story on the latest Caddy CT4-V and CT5-V, although they were the Blackwing models. They loved them.
What other factors are important to you - back seat room, trunk space, warranty...?
The Genesis 3.3 will definitely be the most powerful, although the 2.7L Caddy won't be far behind, and might be lighter.
Pricewise, when I did a build of the Caddy on their website, it was more like $55k.
Which do you like the looks of best?

Thanks for the input.
Backseat room? About a wash. Believe it our not, the Alfa Guilia has the most, even though it is the smallest. The G70 and CT4 are pretty much meant for kids...maybe a small car/booster seat.

Truck space isn't a concern. All the models have split folding rear seats in case long objects need to be transported.

Warranty: I love the valet maintenance service from genesis. Cadillac offers 1 year on tire rotations and oil changes, Genesis, 3 years on everything including fluid refills and new wiper blades. Alfa, nothing by default. The b2b warranties are about the same across the board. 4 years/50K miles. Genesis offers that valet service so the least amount of inconvenience...I assume.

The Genesis is the most spirited car out of the three. Low end torque is instant...makes it fun to drive. It pulls the hardest up the torque curve. The Caddy is a close second...but some turbo lag is noticeable down low. The Guilia has to spool the turbo up before the power is delivered to the drivetrain. There are some fixes for Guilia's turbo lag (tunes and throttle position devices) but not sure I want to mod up a relatively brand new car.

Reliability? Not sure I have answers. All three powertrains I believer are less than 5 years old in production. Don't know if I'll keep the vehicle that long so it may be a moot point.

Regarding looks, the CT4 has the newest exterior and interior design of the bunch. On the inside, the gauge cluster is nice (completely digital)...but the infotainment center is the same component placed in all of GM's lineup. Cadillac lacks any differentiation here. I like the lines on the Genesis. Nothing too flashy and not as bold as the CT4. Rounded and sculpted more for a luxury look (vs the typical sports sedan....ie Stinger). Interior is nice but I do know the 2022's are just around the corner. Don't know if it'll be a subtle facelift like the stinger....or a complete makeover. The Alfa has the most distinct styling. Very noticeable and a standout from the front. Not many driving Guilia's in my neighborhood. The interior is ok...but lacks the tech features of the other two.

Hard decision, still watching more media videos and reading more new owner reviews. As of tonight, I'm leaning towards the G70.

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[busterbrown]

I cross shopped an AWD ATS V (had a 2.0 ATS sedan prior to the g70 3.3 sport). It drove very nice and seemed to be a big improvement over the ats I had previously. I think the g70 overall just drives better with the turbo 6 cylinder and for a lot less money. I was told the caddy would have a 54%ish residual after 3 years. Also for me, the interior and exterior were just too similar looking to the car I already had which didn’t help justifying paying more per month.

Also, not sure if it matters much to you, the Genesis having included maintenance and a longer warranty was a big factor too.

Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong with either as long as they have the features you want at a price you like.

Edit: I also wanted to drive the Alfa but knew I wanted more hp so I just didn’t bother with it lol.

The price on those ATS-V's is the limited factor for me too. The residuals on most of the cars in this segment are pathetic. This just adds to the complexity of my decision as I usually change my vehicles every 3-4 years.

The Alfa, BTW, is the best "driver's car" out of all 3. The weight distribution with the steering rack is pure gold. Unfortunately, I don't have many 'twisties' on my commutes each day. Mostly expressway driving and city driving. The Alfa loves the twisties.

 

[busterbrown]

BTW, I just read that a factory FOB remote start isn't available on the Genesis G70s? A subscription based service is required and you use an app...kind of like Onstar. Say this isn't true???? No remote start key fobs??

 

[Husky]

That's correct, you have to use a Genesis app on your phone. It's a bit clumsy, I don't use it. You can start it from anywhere, but why would you?

 

[busterbrown]

That's correct, you have to use a Genesis app on your phone. It's a bit clumsy, I don't use it. You can start it from anywhere, but why would you?

Living in Michigan, remote start on a key FOB is considered essential for getting through the harsh winter months. A good percentage of mid to high trims will have it standard. The subscription based services are available too but I'd prefer a key fob to active the feature.

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[Husky]

I get that. Before I retired, I did use it a few times to warm up the car before leaving work (I live in NH). What I meant to say was that the web based app lets you start the car from thousands of miles away, but that doesn't seem very useful. Also, you can't turn on the seat heaters remotely, which seems really stupid.

 

[Jlapaglia]

The price on those ATS-V's is the limited factor for me too. The residuals on most of the cars in this segment are pathetic. This just adds to the complexity of my decision as I usually change my vehicles every 3-4 years.

The Alfa, BTW, is the best "driver's car" out of all 3. The weight distribution with the steering rack is pure gold. Unfortunately, I don't have many 'twisties' on my commutes each day. Mostly expressway driving and city driving. The Alfa loves the twisties.

Just realized I said ATS lol, meant CT4. I don’t have many fun roads either that’s why I went for the more power and 6 cylinder sound. As mentioned about the remote start features, I had the fob and app for my caddy and used both. It would typically turn on the heater, steering wheel, and seats which was great. The Genesis only does the heat and steering wheel. I’ve found it acceptable as the seats warm up pretty quick but I’d much rather have them turn on. I’m a big advocate for having remote start on the app since a lot of time when I’m in an office building or out to dinner I like to know I can get it warmed up some before getting back to the car. It’s also nice to be able to check and see if the car is locked or unlocked.

 

[EdP]

I get that. Before I retired, I did use it a few times to warm up the car before leaving work (I live in NH). What I meant to say was that the web based app lets you start the car from thousands of miles away, but that doesn't seem very useful. Also, you can't turn on the seat heaters remotely, which seems really stupid.

One fellow lent his mother the car for a week and he would start it for her on cold mornings. Not the norm though.

 

[Aquineas]

Pretty informed conversation happening here- kudos to all involved. It's ironic that based on the reviews I've seen that you've probably chosen the only two competitors in the segment that are consistently mentioned by reviewers to likely handle better than the G70.

Subjectively speaking, I think the Alpha is the best-looking (by a fair amount), the Genesis the best all-around vehicle, and the Caddy has the best technology (at least as it compares to the 2021 G70). Just to further complicate matters, there's a 2022 G70 coming with slightly upgraded technology and slightly new sheet metal (which you likely already know as you seem to be doing your homework). So here's what I would do.

If I were a single-man interested in pursing romantic entanglements (aren't the Italians always?), I'd get the Alfa.

If I did a lot of highway driving and tended to be concerned more about gas mileage than torque, I'd get the Caddy.

If I wanted a balanced all-arounder which suffered from not-great around-town mileage but could nevertheless pin you to the back of your seat, I'd get the G70.

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[Jlapaglia]

I definitely agree with what Aquineas said. A couple more things to consider that I did was the Alfa can be configured with different color combo options. I was a big fan of the blue and red exteriors with ability to do red leather and yellow brake calipers. Just a beautiful car that will age well.

I can’t remember what the CT4 V had for a sunroof (my ats had a small sunroof) compared to the g70 panoramic sunroof.

Also, I would definitely suggest giving them each a good run using the paddle shifters if you use them a lot while driving. I find the g70 to be way ahead of my ats but I remember the CT4 V being rather crisp and fun to use.

Not sure how adventurous you are but I learned after buying that the g70 doesn’t have built in dock points for a small roof rack like my ats did. Not a big issue for me but something to consider.

I also noticed the cooled seat function on CT4 was a little louder than the g70, small nitpick but something I noticed during test drives and may have just been a one off situation.
Overall, I found the g70 to feel a bit more premium on the inside than the CT4 V mainly due to the seat/dash stitching, alcantara/sued headliner, and use of metal on knobs and buttons.

 

[busterbrown]

Update: I've narrowed it down between two G70s now.

1st one: 2020 3.3T Prestige/Elite with 600 miles, selling as new for $40,500 +TTL (Dealership is 700 miles away): MSRP $52,250
2nd one: 2021 3.3T Sport & Prestige with 5400 miles, selling as new "demo", never titled, $45,500 + TTL (Local dealership) MSRP $54,040

I already drove the 2021. Looks clean. Just needs a some interior and exterior detailing to make look like new. Regarding the 2020, the dealer told me via phone that's it is brand new condition...just some dealership miles that were put on from his sales staff.

Is the $5K savings worth the travel time on a 1 year older model without the sport package? To offset this, I have to consider the pre-existing miles on the 2021 is much higher.

Thoughts?????

 

[joschneider]

Id never buy a demo car or one that the sales staff used as their personal hoonmobile

 

[busterbrown]

Id never buy a demo car or one that the sales staff used as their personal hoonmobile

I purchased a RAM 2500 in 2017 as a demo with 4K miles on it. Was just as clean as this car. 20% of MSRP, similar to this car at 18.5%. Had it 3 years for 35K miles. Sold it for just 6K less than my purchase price. The $12K in investments grew exponentially so it was a smart move. I plan on doing the same with these savings.

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[Jlapaglia]

Update: I've narrowed it down between two G70s now.

1st one: 2020 3.3T Prestige/Elite with 600 miles, selling as new for $40,500 +TTL (Dealership is 700 miles away): MSRP $52,250
2nd one: 2021 3.3T Sport & Prestige with 5400 miles, selling as new "demo", never titled, $45,500 + TTL (Local dealership) MSRP $54,040

I already drove the 2021. Looks clean. Just needs a some interior and exterior detailing to make look like new. Regarding the 2020, the dealer told me via phone that's it is brand new condition...just some dealership miles that were put on from his sales staff.

Is the $5K savings worth the travel time on a 1 year older model without the sport package? To offset this, I have to consider the pre-existing miles on the 2021 is much higher.

Thoughts?????

Is there a color combo that you prefer? The sport is primarily cosmetic differences besides the adjustable suspension. Personally I really like the black headliner in the sport with my black seats but the white looks good too. Be sure to check if there is any differences in when the car was put in service for warranty purposes. This may also include time against your 3 yr free xm radio, maintenance, and concierge service. Personally, I like the prestige price better given the miles on it.

edit: i don’t think xm is included, I meant 3 yrs connected services.

 

[BadTrainDriver]

I purchased a RAM 2500 in 2017 as a demo with 4K miles on it. Was just as clean as this car. 20% of MSRP, similar to this car at 18.5%. Had it 3 years for 35K miles. Sold it for just 6K less than my purchase price. The $12K in investments grew exponentially so it was a smart move. I plan on doing the same with these savings.

Except that won't happen with the Genesis. Three year old/36k mile G70 is lucky to be worth $25 to $28k.

 

[busterbrown]

Except that won't happen with the Genesis. Three year old/36k mile G70 is lucky to be worth $25 to $28k.

A 500 mile search of 2019 3.3t higher trim models with approx 20-24k miles is resulting in prices around $40k. What I've been seeing is $5-7k of depreciation per year market dependent. Prices will continue to drop as 2022 refresh models hit showrooms.

 

[Husky]

Were those dealers selling the cars? They may be asking $40k, but they'll take $35k and probably only gave the seller $30k or less.