Next RSpec courtesy of BMW M Series Exec?

[jonjon72]

Some possible great news for the Genesis RSpec and Genesis in general.



More stunning news out of Munich tonight, Albert Biermann, BMW M VP of Engineering will be leaving the brand for Hyundai. It seems none of the current executives at BMW are sure bets anymore. While this does seem to be a shock, maybee it should not be.

We have already reported on BMW's hiring of Roberto Fedelli from Ferrari "for a yet unspecified role/position", but with this departure, maybee it was for this newly vacated position at BMW M. We hope to hear more about this dramatic move in the coming days.

Biermann originally joined BMW in 1983, as part of the E30 M3 Group A race car development team. After several roles at BMW, he is the chief engineer at BMW M and has served as a wealth of information for fans.

In his new role at Hyundai, he will be appointed Head of Vehicle Test & High Performance Development based in Namyang, Korea and will likely have an expanded set of responsibilities, leading the development of new high performance Hyundai and Kia models, as well as oversee engineering projects relating to ride and handling, safety, reliability, and the mitigation of NVH (noise, vibration and harshness).

Bringing in someone of Mr. Biermann's stature into the fold will certainly raise Hyundai-Kia's presence in the performance and luxury segments, but one also has to wonder if this forsages a dedicated performance sub-brand in the future?

 

[Alwaysforward]

Great news... Can't wait to see what's coming down the road... Thank you for the post...

 

[Aquineas]

Friggin' awesome! I can't wait to hear what the moronic anti-Hyundai crowd's forum excuses will be down the line.

 

[anonymous1]

This is defineitly what hyundai needs so the possible r-spec model can look like the genesis mock up with an m4 front bumper that i posted a couple months back. We will see..

 

[ksoze]

I would be cautious assuming a future "M" Genesis - most discussion is of Biermann's potential influence on newer sport models at his new job. Not being a wet blanket, but the Genesis is not built to become a cutting edge sports sedan - its weight, focus and price have it targeted where it is being successfully reviewed - as a Lexus LS killer. If you think attacking the luxury sedan market is a challenge - being compared to an actual M or AMG model would be a formidable mountain to climb.

Purists have watched the M moniker being diluted over the years (outside of the actual M models) and is essentially an option package on BMW lines, which are mostly cosmetic. The Genesis may indeed sport some new R-Spec options down the road, but I do not see the Genesis as an M car anymore than the BMW 7 series is one - outside of mostly cosmetic differences. Bierman's work may indeed produce a true performance model from Hyundai someday, but I suspect it will not ride on the DH platform which was built for a difference market segment and is now getting the traction it needs and not won on 0-60 or track times.

 

[BrazGenesis]

I would be cautious assuming a future "M" Genesis - most discussion is of Biermann's potential influence on newer sport models at his new job. Not being a wet blanket, but the Genesis is not built to become a cutting edge sports sedan - its weight, focus and price have it targeted where it is being successfully reviewed - as a Lexus LS killer. If you think attacking the luxury sedan market is a challenge - being compared to an actual M or AMG model would be a formidable mountain to climb.

Purists have watched the M moniker being diluted over the years (outside of the actual M models) and is essentially an option package on BMW lines, which are mostly cosmetic. The Genesis may indeed sport some new R-Spec options down the road, but I do not see the Genesis as an M car anymore than the BMW 7 series is one - outside of mostly cosmetic differences. Bierman's work may indeed produce a true performance model from Hyundai someday, but I suspect it will not ride on the DH platform which was built for a difference market segment and is now getting the traction it needs and not won on 0-60 or track times.

Very good points.
I think a BMW guy may suggest the M family. Well, as you point out that could be difficult in a big luxury platform. But could the AMG brand - I mean the big ones - be the inspiration?
I agree that Genesis target the Lexus LS market. But I would add the Mercedes E & S series too.
A second generation Genesis parked aside a MB 350 shows close cousins...

 

[ksoze]

I agree that Genesis target the Lexus LS market. But I would add the Mercedes E & S series too. A second generation Genesis parked aside a MB 350 shows close cousins...

In fact, Hyundai pre-launch marketing materials focused on those two cars, not the Lexus.

What the auto press and reviewers have apparently determined is that The new Genesis is more closely compared to a Lexus LS - maybe not what initial plans anticipated, but helping it gain favor as demonstrated by recent awards and general positive press. Some of that may be complimentary nostalgia remembering when Lexus and Infiniti first spawned a new market segment with the LS 400 and Q45 decades ago.

 

[amartz]

I would be cautious assuming a future "M" Genesis - most discussion is of Biermann's potential influence on newer sport models at his new job. Not being a wet blanket, but the Genesis is not built to become a cutting edge sports sedan

Maybe the Coupe, instead of the sedan?

 

[jonjon72]

Purists have watched the M moniker being diluted over the years (outside of the actual M models) and is essentially an option package on BMW lines, which are mostly cosmetic. The Genesis may indeed sport some new R-Spec options down the road, but I do not see the Genesis as an M car anymore than the BMW 7 series is one - outside of mostly cosmetic differences. Bierman's work may indeed produce a true performance model from Hyundai someday, but I suspect it will not ride on the DH platform which was built for a difference market segment and is now getting the traction it needs and not won on 0-60 or track times.

Agreed that the "M" no longer has that edge that is used to have. BMW had decided to water down the performance to attract more sales from the average consumer. The "M" 235 is a perfect example where they have strayed by sticking an "M" on a non "M" product. As the VP of Engineering for the M division, he was probably up on arms but had little to say when the bean counters got involved.

Hiring Peter Schreyer was the first big higher to move Hyundai/Kia in the right direction, the addition of Albert will only improve the brand overall.

 

[ksoze]

Hiring Peter Schreyer was the first big higher to move Hyundai/Kia in the right direction, the addition of Albert will only improve the brand overall.

Great moves, if for nothing else than PR value. Hyundai who?

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[jimb100]

Definitely some interesting takes in this thread.

While the current Genesis might not be an M or AMG competitor as it sits, just how far is it from the Audi A7?

Also, the current Genesis doesn't seem to lend itself to being downsized to the 3600-3800 pound range, where it would have a performance advantage.

Simply matching the German sport sedans won't sell cars, even if the price is thousands less. Didn't Infiniti already try that?

A 3800 pound car with the 3.8 and twin turbos, (450 HP), 8 spd dual clutch, good seats, all the current tech, continuously variable suspension, for $55k? That should give the Germans a run for their money!

Looking at the current content in the Genesis Ultimate the smaller car shouldn't be any more expensive to produce.

 

[YEH]

Biermann probably won't have a real major impact until the 3G Genesis sedan - which Hyundai presumably will take some weight-reduction measures (tho likely won't give up much, if any, in terms of size) and when Hyundai will likely launch a real performance line for the Genesis.

Which isn't that much of an issue since MB's AMG models tend to be on the heavier side and use brute force to move the weight.

Would not be a bad move at all to keep Hyundai more after the AMG side of the market and Kia more to the BMW (or make that Cadillac) side of the market (lighter, more nimble) as the Kia's upcoming GT will be smaller and lighter than the Genesis.

Simply matching the German sport sedans won't sell cars, even if the price is thousands less. Didn't Infiniti already try that?

Infiniti has its IPL line which wasn't a true performance line and more like the Genesis R-Spec.

They are, however, working on a true performance line to compete against Lexus's F and Cadillac's V (as well as the Germans).

This type of stuff probably won't be a $$-maker for Hyundai/Kia as it isn't for the Japanese (BMW and MB make a pretty penny tho), but will be used to bring credibility/excitement to the brand/models (Hyundai/Kia will more or less be competing against the Japanese).

 

[daviderle]

Biermann probably won't have a real major impact until the 3G Genesis sedan - which Hyundai presumably will take some weight-reduction measures (tho likely won't give up much, if any, in terms of size) and when Hyundai will likely launch a real performance line for the Genesis.

I beg to differ,... ...I think they will spin him up pretty quick and let him loose on the MCE G2 Genesis (2018 model)...

I agree with jmb100 and we will end up something that would be very close to the Audi RS7 from a performance and stance prospective, at around $58k or so (fully loaded)..

If he succeeds they will let him work on the GT (?R?Spec or whatever the Kia equivalent is) for the MCE (2019 model?) and then port these enhancements to G2 Genesis Coupe R-Spec...

[EDIT] the 8sp transmission that can be found in our cars is actually a Quin (five) clutch and is technically superior to duel clutch on several levels.

It is a shame that Hyundai pursuit of reliability at the expense of performance, generally limits what this gearbox is capable off (to the point that I have to trick it, to extract some of its untapped potential)!!! ....

[YOUTUBE]5698BmdIVCk[/YOUTUBE]

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=15072

 

[BrazGenesis]

This is a great thread!
One additional point: the "heavy duty" super Germans were made with the German autobahns in mind. No speed limits and hours of high speed travel demanding a lot from suspension, brakes, engine etc.
What happens outside that environment, mainly in the USA, the biggest market in the world, is speeds limited to 75 mph... That means no necessarily super suspension, brakes, transmission, etc.
In other words: Producing an AMG like as an evolution (as opposed to a revolution) of the RSpec is definitely possible.
Somehow BMW realized that and their current Ms are not so heavy duty as the original ones. Gains in costs transferred to prices an competitiveness.
In summary, I'd say we are in the game!
Having the right people on board is a great move that buys a lot of time.

 

[YEH]

I beg to differ,... ...I think they will spin him up pretty quick and let him loose on the MCE G2 Genesis (2018 model)...

Of course Biermann isn't going to be sitting around and will be put to work ASAP on the 2G Genesis, etc., but I think it would be more of an N-Sport type deal than a full fledged N performance line (which I don't think Hyundai will do until the next gen model - but who knows?).

Biermann's impact will be greater for the 3G Genesis since he likely will have input on the next gen platform, powertrain, etc.

Would be interesting to see how much of an impact he will have on Hyundai's upcoming compact RWD sedan and the new RWD coupe as both have been under development, along with the GT for Kia.

 

[dreamofgenesis]

I'm excited for this news! Can't wait what'll come in future!