Possible competition from Pontiac/Holden?

[GrandPrix08]

Just picked up the June 2008 issue of Motor Trend, which they test 402HP Pontiac/Holden G8 GXP that was made by Holden of Australia and it claims that it will be sold for under $40K. It may get added as the new entry to the Genesis's list of competitors. Personally, I hate this Aussie made excuse as a Pontiac, but since it will have the similar price with even more powerful V8 engine than the Genesis V8, it will be interesting to see how the two fares each other. Though I do admit the 2 cars are in different segment, Pontiac/Holden version to be more of a performance and the Hyundai being more luxurious, but since the price will be similar, Hmmmm.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The Genesis won't hold a candle to the Pontiac/Holden in regards to performance. That I'm 100% sure of. Then again, the Pontiac/Holden won't hold a candle to the Genesis in regards to luxury.

 

[gopack504]

I just can’t see how Pontiac can compared to the Genesis or even be competition. They are not even in the same class. I have a Pontiac Grand Am. I liked the car when we got it, but don’t anymore. It’s paid off now, so hopefully after a couple years of saving car payments I will get myself a luxury car. The Genesis is more of a luxury car, whereas the Pontiac is not. I may be wrong, as my knowledge of cars is pretty basic. Although you would think I would know more because my father is an automotive engineer and consultant to Ford Motor Company.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Nice ties to the automotive industry! Yeah, I think the GrandPrix08 does realize that they're not REALLY competition for one another. But, some people might cross shop the two..

Keep saying those car payments because the Genesis is going to be everything you'll want in a luxury car except for the "badge".

 

[GrandPrix08]

I know they are not in the same segment, as I said in my post, but since the price will be similar and because they are BOTH Rear Wheel Drive, there WILL be people who MIGHT cross-shop the two. Of those people, I think the ones who crave for more power and performance will go with the Holden, those people who prefer the luxury over performance will opt for Hyundai instead. But right now, the question lies on how much Hyundai will price the Genesis. I don't think it will sell very well on its first year, since I don't think there are that many American buyers who will fork over 35K+ for a Hyundai, at least right now. They will have to wait and see for about a year of how the customers think of their Genesis and if it turns out as positive or not. I would say the 2nd model year will be the model year they will really have to focus on improving it further, once the verdict is out.

 

[gentau]

As you know, I have a Pontiac (Holden) GTO. I come from a family of Pontiac owners that dates back to the Silver Streak days; and I can unequivocally state that the GTO is the best offering from Pontiac that we have owned through the years. Holden did a great job of screwing the car together. It is certainly not a luxurious car; but the interior materials, trim, and fit is far superior to the domestic offerings.

I don't agree that the Genesis and the Pontiac G8 will not be competitors in the marketplace. Both cars have models that range from $30-40K. Both offer the convenience of a 4dr sedan, both are rear wheel drive, and both will offer a choice of V6 or V8 engines. I believe that the buyer looking for a 4dr sedan in this price range will cross shop both vehicles.

I will agree that the Hyundai will probably have the edge in luxury and optional equipment. I don't necessarily believe, though, that the G8 will have a huge performance advantage. The most powerful G8 offering (the GXP) will have 402hp vs 375hp for the Genesis. The weights of the Genesis and the V8 G8 are within 11 lbs of one another....G8 is 3995 lbs vs 4006 lbs for the Genesis. The Tau V8 does come up short in a comparison of torque ratings though. G8 has ~400 ft/lbs, while the Hyundai is ~335 ft/lbs. Actual real world performance numbers will depend a lot upon the gearing of the two vehicles.

I guess I should caveat my ramblings by saying that, when I mention "performance", I am speaking only of straight line performance. I suspect that the Genesis will not handle as crisply as the G8 since Hyundai will probably opt for a softer suspension to carry out the luxury theme of the car. I don't do road racing or circle track stuff. I am only interested in how fast my car gets through the 1/4 mile when I go to the track on weekends.

As you might have surmised by my post, there is already at least one person cross shopping the two vehicles.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

It's going to be a close call for you, John.. But I know you like your drag racing.. If you're giving up the GTO to buy either the Genesis or the G8, than I have a feeling you'll be learning toward the Pontiac.. However, we'll have to see how the cars are geared. I really do believe the Pontiac is going to be at least 3 or 4 tenths quicker to 60 - but that's just a guess.. And it's also not very much...

 

[Michael_S]

Honestly, I don't have enough spare cash right now to shop for a skateboard, let alone a new sedan. So my vote on this doesn't carry a lot of weight.

That said, I would cross shop the two. Like I said in another thread, I am interested in either car as a large family sedan that's also fun. Official specifications don't paint the whole picture, but by the numbers the G8 and Genesis will have nearly the largest cabins for any cars in their price range.

I was hoping the Genesis would be offered with the announced 264 horsepower 3.3 liter engine, because that could potentially match the G8 V6 on price (hopefully around $27,000) and performance but hold a small edge in fuel economy. Since sources indicate the 3.3 was cancelled, the 3.8 is probably out of my price range and also uses more fuel than I would like. Also, I'm assuming most of the fancier luxury features for the Genesis are options, so at the bottom price range it probably doesn't offer more luxury features than the G8.

Oh, and I realize the actual largest car in the $30,000 price range is the Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis. But it uses an unimpressive old V8 with a four speed automatic, and despite the fact that it's well over a foot longer than the G8 and Genesis it doesn't offer more leg room. It only has more space because it's an extremely wide sedan.

 

[GrandPrix08]

Well, yeah, there WILL be people cross shopping the two as I have mentioned. Also, I am not sure about the 3.3. Once they said it WILL make it to US, later they say it won't, and all. There has been number of rumors floating in the net, I don't know which to believe, but I doubt the 3.3 will make it.

As for the Crown Vic/Grand Marquee, as the favorite of the Police officers, I think those 2 are really overdue for a full update sooner or later. It's not that it's an ugly car or anything, it's got great size and all, but it just looks old now. It's just too dated, inside and out. It's about time those 2 goes back to the drawing board for a fresh, full update very soon. Even the Town car looks far more modern than those two. Well, that's my opinion.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I believe the Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis are headed for the chopping block along with the Lincoln Town Car (all share the same platform). I do agree that the Town Car looks MUCH better and more updated that the others. And I LOVE wide cars - I love shoulder room. That's one of the reasons I have my Escalade.. The old Cadillac Fleetwood used to share these characteristics as well..

The Chrysler 300 falls into the Genesis competitor category as well..

Something that might give the Hyundai Genesis even more of an edge would be a long wheel base version - which I feel is an important option in the luxury car class...

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[gentau]

It's going to be a close call for you, John.. But I know you like your drag racing.. If you're giving up the GTO to buy either the Genesis or the G8, than I have a feeling you'll be learning toward the Pontiac.. However, we'll have to see how the cars are geared. I really do believe the Pontiac is going to be at least 3 or 4 tenths quicker to 60 - but that's just a guess.. And it's also not very much...

Twenty, or even ten, years ago you would have been absolutely correct about the G8 being a no-brainer for me. However, now that I am getting a little longer in tooth, the luxury aspect is starting to have a little more meaning for me.

Yes, the gearing will be critical. The six speed automatic of the Genesis offers a better opportunity for maximizing performance than the five speed transmission of the G8. Whether Hyundai has done their homework to take advantage of that opportunity remains to be seen.

I think you are spot-on with your estimated 3-4 tenths difference in the stock offerings of the two cars. However, that is something that can easily be overcome with judicious selection of modifications. My GTO was a 13.4 second 1/4 mile car with 0-60 mph time of 4.8 seconds in stock form. It now runs 11.5 seconds in the 1/4 and will clip off 0-60 mph in 3.2 seconds with no degradation in street driving manners. Sadly, though, the drivers seat is neither heated nor cooled.