JBattan
Registered Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2023
- Messages
- 118
- Reaction score
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- Genesis Model Year
- 2023
- Genesis Model Type
- Genesis GV60
2023 Genesis GV60 Review by jim@battan.com
I’ve owned my Uyuni White 2023 Genesis GV60 Performance for 2 years and 24,000 miles now, and it’s long overdue for a comprehensive review. Long story short, I’m very but not perfectly happy with the GV60 and the BEV ownership experience. It’s been a struggle in many ways, as you’ll see below, but the car itself has been phenomenally fun to drive.
A bit of background: This is my first EV, after owning 25 cars, including two hybrids, from 10 brands including Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Porsche, and Bentley. Before purchasing it, I was a little worried about range, but was willing to make the leap knowing I had a couple ICEs in the garage if needed. My standards are high (too high, my wife complains
). I value performance, comfort, luxury, quality, reliability, service, and design fairly evenly. I've taken several AMG advanced driving schools and push my cars harder than the majority of Oregonians.
I cross-shopped several cars before settling on the GV60: Lexus GX460, Lexus RX500h, Audi eTron, Mercedes EQS 580 SUV, Tesla X and Y, and Hyundai Ioniq 5. The Model Y was quickly rejected after I test drove it and found it the worst car I've ever driven, but with some cool features. I loved the Model X’s power, but I wasn’t in love with the design. Two years on, boy am I glad I didn’t buy a Tesla.
My selling dealer was Genesis Santa Monica, which I chose because they had the first dealership in a Genesis-only building. I live in Oregon though. There were no Genesis dealers around at the time; the nearest was south of Seattle. A Hyundai dealership in Vancouver WA wasn't planning on supporting electric vehicles for the foreseeable future. (Even that was in question since I spoke to a Hyundai dealership in Portland who said the rumor is the Vancouver dealership is shutting down.) So I took a bit of a gamble that the car didn't need dealership service until I moved to California later that year.
The dealership is nicely done in son-nim style with Asian overtones (polished rocks, indirect lighting, lots of white space), but very small. The building has just enough room for 3 cars, a lounge, and several sales offices, plus one service bay and a tiny parts department. It was just a couple days old, so they were still setting everything up. The lot only holds about 30 cars including customer’s, requiring double parking. As comparison, the Supercharger station down the street consumes more space than the entire Genesis dealership.
The buying experience was initially good but turned bad. My sales rep knew his stuff and was accommodating while I was choosing colors. I asked for $1K off MSRP and was refused, saying they could only negotiate on add-ons. I could have gone down to the Torrance dealer and gotten $1K off, but decided not to given this beautiful new facility they just built. The dealer had already applied a ridiculously-priced $1,995 "protection package", $295 door edge guards, and $200 door handle inserts, so I negotiated a slight 15% off all that. (The most expensive detail I've had done - on a $210K car - cost less than the protection package, and required 18 hours of meticulous work.) But with the ash gray seats, I may end up needing to take advantage of their five year protection package warranty, if they don't find a way to weasel out of a claim. They forgot to detach their KEYper System fobs from my two keys. They missed taking off 16 pieces of protective plastic wrap, inside and out of the car. It took 20 days to get my deal paperwork, and the MSO took another 12 days. They initially told me that Pacific VW handles their back office, but the GM told me that was bad info. There was confusion about the wire settlement, which delayed the release to the transporter by two days, and if you know transporters, they’re an impatient bunch. I gave them an overall 4/10 rating on the corporate survey and immediately got a response from the GM who finally took care of my paperwork delay. She said the poor rating was cause to dismiss the sales rep. Neither work there today.
I wasn’t given the code to use for my free Genesis EA charging plan and got no response to email, text, or chat requests to the sales department. No one in service was available to give me my code either. I finally saw on the forums that’s it’s the “engine” number on the Maroney.
I purchased every available package and option, which is to say, none. Everything is included! I can't believe the level of completeness this car has: heads up display, ADAS, premium sound, massaging seats, etc. My daughter just ordered a Macan 4 EV and had to select 16 pricey options that Genesis include as standard. This is a win-win, because it simplifies the manufacturing process, the ordering process, the stocking process, availability, and resale.
I ordered four accessories from the parts department, but three of them were on backorder for weeks, so I canceled all four, and had to ask the GM to get me a refund for them when the parts department didn't after 13 days. I ordered wheel locks on eBay.
The shipping experience was terrible, but that's not Genesis’s fault. I used Nexus Auto Transport at the recommendation of my dealer. As soon as I filled out the "get an estimate" query on their website, I was inundated with phone calls, text messages, and emails, 8-10 times a day for a few days, usually by different people from Illinois. Often they had the details I entered (the kind of car, when to pick it up, where it was being delivered, my name, etc) wrong. Even after I signed up for the shipment a few days later, the same company continued to bombard me with queries about booking the shipment. And then the actual mover (Like most “shipping” companies, Nexus is just a broker; they don't actually transport cars) wanted to pick up the car before it was ready; that took about 7 phone calls to sort out. Then they called me and said my shipment would be $100 more. I asked why, and they said because I wanted to expedite. I said, no, whenever is fine, and they said "never mind” and hung up. Well, they billed me for the extra $100 anyway, so it took five phone calls and them going back to the voice recording of that interaction twice before they agreed to refund me the extra $100. When the driver arrived with my car, we had arranged Zelle to send the balance due, so after he got the car off the transporter, I had him enter his Zelle email address on my phone so I knew the payment would be sent to the right place; well, he had the email address wrong, so it went to another shipper with a similar name. We finally got that resolved but it could have caused me to lose a lot of money.
Really, my only substantial operating costs are going to be depreciation, tires, and brakes, unless something breaks of course. After 24 months and 24K miles, the tires are in good shape and likely have another 12K or more left on them. (The press says EVs eat up tires faster, but I’m happy to get more than the 12K miles my AMGs get!) I computed the depreciation today using KBB with Very Good condition, and the private party value with 24475 miles is $35,224. My purchase price was $70K, so my cost to date has been $34,476, or $1,436/mo. 50% depreciation over two years is very steep, but with gas and maintenance savings of around $24,000 (compared to the GLS63 it replaced), it’s comes down to $416/mo.
Here’s a list of the pros and cons of the car after driving it most every day both in town and on several multi-state road trips.
Pros:
Performance & Driving Experience
Technology & Features
EV Benefits
Design & Comfort
The warranty is comprehensive and covers the electric system including the batteries for 10 years/100K miles, which is great.
Cons:
Dealership & Service Experience
Software & Tech Issues
Fortunately, over time software can be improved, while the hardware itself is already mostly sorted.
Design & Usability Quirks
(Please see Part 2)
I’ve owned my Uyuni White 2023 Genesis GV60 Performance for 2 years and 24,000 miles now, and it’s long overdue for a comprehensive review. Long story short, I’m very but not perfectly happy with the GV60 and the BEV ownership experience. It’s been a struggle in many ways, as you’ll see below, but the car itself has been phenomenally fun to drive.
A bit of background: This is my first EV, after owning 25 cars, including two hybrids, from 10 brands including Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Porsche, and Bentley. Before purchasing it, I was a little worried about range, but was willing to make the leap knowing I had a couple ICEs in the garage if needed. My standards are high (too high, my wife complains
). I value performance, comfort, luxury, quality, reliability, service, and design fairly evenly. I've taken several AMG advanced driving schools and push my cars harder than the majority of Oregonians.I cross-shopped several cars before settling on the GV60: Lexus GX460, Lexus RX500h, Audi eTron, Mercedes EQS 580 SUV, Tesla X and Y, and Hyundai Ioniq 5. The Model Y was quickly rejected after I test drove it and found it the worst car I've ever driven, but with some cool features. I loved the Model X’s power, but I wasn’t in love with the design. Two years on, boy am I glad I didn’t buy a Tesla.
My selling dealer was Genesis Santa Monica, which I chose because they had the first dealership in a Genesis-only building. I live in Oregon though. There were no Genesis dealers around at the time; the nearest was south of Seattle. A Hyundai dealership in Vancouver WA wasn't planning on supporting electric vehicles for the foreseeable future. (Even that was in question since I spoke to a Hyundai dealership in Portland who said the rumor is the Vancouver dealership is shutting down.) So I took a bit of a gamble that the car didn't need dealership service until I moved to California later that year.
The dealership is nicely done in son-nim style with Asian overtones (polished rocks, indirect lighting, lots of white space), but very small. The building has just enough room for 3 cars, a lounge, and several sales offices, plus one service bay and a tiny parts department. It was just a couple days old, so they were still setting everything up. The lot only holds about 30 cars including customer’s, requiring double parking. As comparison, the Supercharger station down the street consumes more space than the entire Genesis dealership.
The buying experience was initially good but turned bad. My sales rep knew his stuff and was accommodating while I was choosing colors. I asked for $1K off MSRP and was refused, saying they could only negotiate on add-ons. I could have gone down to the Torrance dealer and gotten $1K off, but decided not to given this beautiful new facility they just built. The dealer had already applied a ridiculously-priced $1,995 "protection package", $295 door edge guards, and $200 door handle inserts, so I negotiated a slight 15% off all that. (The most expensive detail I've had done - on a $210K car - cost less than the protection package, and required 18 hours of meticulous work.) But with the ash gray seats, I may end up needing to take advantage of their five year protection package warranty, if they don't find a way to weasel out of a claim. They forgot to detach their KEYper System fobs from my two keys. They missed taking off 16 pieces of protective plastic wrap, inside and out of the car. It took 20 days to get my deal paperwork, and the MSO took another 12 days. They initially told me that Pacific VW handles their back office, but the GM told me that was bad info. There was confusion about the wire settlement, which delayed the release to the transporter by two days, and if you know transporters, they’re an impatient bunch. I gave them an overall 4/10 rating on the corporate survey and immediately got a response from the GM who finally took care of my paperwork delay. She said the poor rating was cause to dismiss the sales rep. Neither work there today.
I wasn’t given the code to use for my free Genesis EA charging plan and got no response to email, text, or chat requests to the sales department. No one in service was available to give me my code either. I finally saw on the forums that’s it’s the “engine” number on the Maroney.
I purchased every available package and option, which is to say, none. Everything is included! I can't believe the level of completeness this car has: heads up display, ADAS, premium sound, massaging seats, etc. My daughter just ordered a Macan 4 EV and had to select 16 pricey options that Genesis include as standard. This is a win-win, because it simplifies the manufacturing process, the ordering process, the stocking process, availability, and resale.
I ordered four accessories from the parts department, but three of them were on backorder for weeks, so I canceled all four, and had to ask the GM to get me a refund for them when the parts department didn't after 13 days. I ordered wheel locks on eBay.
The shipping experience was terrible, but that's not Genesis’s fault. I used Nexus Auto Transport at the recommendation of my dealer. As soon as I filled out the "get an estimate" query on their website, I was inundated with phone calls, text messages, and emails, 8-10 times a day for a few days, usually by different people from Illinois. Often they had the details I entered (the kind of car, when to pick it up, where it was being delivered, my name, etc) wrong. Even after I signed up for the shipment a few days later, the same company continued to bombard me with queries about booking the shipment. And then the actual mover (Like most “shipping” companies, Nexus is just a broker; they don't actually transport cars) wanted to pick up the car before it was ready; that took about 7 phone calls to sort out. Then they called me and said my shipment would be $100 more. I asked why, and they said because I wanted to expedite. I said, no, whenever is fine, and they said "never mind” and hung up. Well, they billed me for the extra $100 anyway, so it took five phone calls and them going back to the voice recording of that interaction twice before they agreed to refund me the extra $100. When the driver arrived with my car, we had arranged Zelle to send the balance due, so after he got the car off the transporter, I had him enter his Zelle email address on my phone so I knew the payment would be sent to the right place; well, he had the email address wrong, so it went to another shipper with a similar name. We finally got that resolved but it could have caused me to lose a lot of money.
Really, my only substantial operating costs are going to be depreciation, tires, and brakes, unless something breaks of course. After 24 months and 24K miles, the tires are in good shape and likely have another 12K or more left on them. (The press says EVs eat up tires faster, but I’m happy to get more than the 12K miles my AMGs get!) I computed the depreciation today using KBB with Very Good condition, and the private party value with 24475 miles is $35,224. My purchase price was $70K, so my cost to date has been $34,476, or $1,436/mo. 50% depreciation over two years is very steep, but with gas and maintenance savings of around $24,000 (compared to the GLS63 it replaced), it’s comes down to $416/mo.
Here’s a list of the pros and cons of the car after driving it most every day both in town and on several multi-state road trips.
Pros:
Performance & Driving Experience
- Excellent driving dynamics: Quick, quiet, refined, responsive, and efficient. No transmission jerkiness, instant torque, immediate reverse/drive switching. After a few miles in an EV, going back to internal combustion feels like returning to whale-oil lamps. Boost mood is almost scary fast, even for a guy who frequently drives at the physical/legal/moral limit, but there is a tad of torque steer. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don’t use it much. I haven’t yet tried drift mode. I’m surprised but happy they include it.
- The Michelin tires are excellent overall, and from my favorite tire brand.
- There’s no denying the physics of stopping so much mass, and while I would like stronger brakes, these are good.
- No waiting for engine warm-up; you can floor it on a cold morning.
- The flexible regen system is fun to play with, depending on my mood. I tend to use levels 1 and 2 most, as I don’t like the constant pressure against my foot when I’m coasting.
Technology & Features
- Comprehensive standard features: No add-on packages, includes HUD, premium sound system, ADAS, and more.
- There are four ways to unlock the car: fob, key card, digital key via iPhone, and face recognition. The fob itself is a work of art: 8 function buttons, slim, preternaturally light, elegant, and delightful to hold. Multiple unlocking options: Fob, key card, iPhone digital key, and face recognition.
- Thriving owner community: GenesisOwners.com and several (too many) Facebook groups.
- Customizable buttons: Limited options, but useful.
- Alerts for open windows, backseat items, or phone left in the charger.
- Excellent owner’s site and app: Real-time vehicle status, manuals, etc. A list of voice commands is available here: Using Voice Recognition System.
EV Benefits
- Massive maintenance cost savings: No camshaft, crankshaft, valves, connecting rods, engine block, valve covers, oil pan, starter, alternator, belts, pulleys and tensioners, spark plugs, fuel injectors, radiator, water pump, coolant hoses, transmission and fluid, transfer case, differential case and fluid, driveshafts, axles, U-joints, CV boots, fuel pump, timing belt, torque converter, engine air filter, exhaust components (manifold, pipes, EGR, muffler, catalytic converter), power steering fluid, gas tank, fuel lines and filter, gas EVAP system, gas cap, or oil changes. Greatly reduced brake pad and rotor wear. I’ve spent many tens of thousands of dollars on all these things for my ICE cars.
- Less guilt over emissions: No more toxins spewing into the air. Yes, I realize that making the car requires lots of emissions and mining of several rare elements.
- Free Electrify America charging for 3 years: I’ve saved around $21,000 in gas compared to my older GLS63. I do 99.7% of my charging at EA, even though I have a level two charger at home. Over the past 21,760 miles, I have averaged 2.8 mi/kWh. EA charges $0.56/kWh. My utility charges me $0.17/kWh at home plus taxes and fees. The Genesis benefit of three years of free EA will have saved me approximately $7,500. It has been a lucrative arrangement for me, and about 12 times better than what Genesis are offering for purchases today (a free home charger or a $600 Genesis Pay charging credit).
- No exhaust noise. I'm somewhat misophonic, though I love the rumble from my AMGs. But silence is really nice too, and I can fill it with music. Not a fan of the cheesy artificial sounds that Genesis supply.
- Flexible charging: High-speed DC, Level 2, and, in a pinch, Level 1. V2L and interior AC outlets available to power all sorts of things.
Design & Comfort
- Stylish inside and out: It's such a tiny car outside when sitting next to my hulking GLS63, but there is plenty of interior room and I'm 6'3". It's a beautiful organic shape inside and out. You can tell that Luc Donckerwolke, the former head of design for Bentley, is now doing Genesis's work, especially when I park my GV60 next to my Bentayga.
- Son-nim design aesthetic: Clean, modern, and premium. The IC has all the info I need and displays it beautifully, but the infotainment display is too grayscale, and the map is all but useless given that it labels almost NO streets.
- Quality switchgear, great mix of physical buttons and touchscreen.
The warranty is comprehensive and covers the electric system including the batteries for 10 years/100K miles, which is great.
Cons:
Dealership & Service Experience
- Absolutely terrible service experiences: Genesis dealerships are among the worst I’ve experienced. More details below.
- More recalls and service campaigns than I have experienced with other cars: ICCU fuse 021G, regen brake lights 908G (OTA), INTEGRATED ELECTRONIC BRAKE (IEB) AUTO VARIANT CODING 909G, Charging Logic 910G, VCU regen 082G, seat belt 077G, ICCU update 015G/069G, Driveshafts 014G/053G. I’ve been fortunate to not have experienced any of the issues that others have: frunk water ingress, headlight condensation, ICCU, 12V battery, infotainment unit failure, etc.
- Inconsistent maintenance notifications: Email from selling dealer says it’s due now, but the IC popup says 83 days or 873 miles, and the infotainment screen Connected Services > Maintenance menu says 2,284 mi or 281 days left. The monthly vehicle health report that Genesis emails me said no maintenance is required even though I am 15 days overdue for service, and has numerous ICE-specific mentions. App says no maintenance needed for 9766 miles but that the recommended service interval is 5K miles, and I actually need it in 300 miles. The MyGenesis website (owners.genesis.com) says it’s due in 15K miles(!). Incessant days-to-service countdown in the IC that beeps every time I start the car can’t be cancelled (so I’ll have to endure about 360 beeps). The dealer's Xtime Automobile Status Report multi-point inspection form has lots of entries for an ICE car (fuel cap, oil, muffler, etc); there should really be a simpler form for BEVs.
Software & Tech Issues
- Apple CarPlay sometimes starts up correctly and the music resumes, but about half the time, the IC shows the menu tiles, and some of the time the “at rest” (mostly blank) screen. It fires up every time in the Bentley, so it’s not my phone.
- Despite it being an involved process, setting up the digital key in my iPhone's Apple Wallet worked, but twice now, after a few weeks it stopped working, making me hesitant to use it without carrying the fob. I couldn’t get the digital key working on my Apple Watch.
- I have had the blind spot monitor fail to register a car beside me (just once). Yes, it was in the spot that is needed for activation for a good 20 seconds. I also have had the active cruise fail to register a car in front of me, until I reset it twice.
- When turning on cross traffic assist, I get an error message “Vehicle System Connection is unstable”.
- Car unlocked notifications are sent after I park securely in my garage, and then at random intervals. So annoying as there's no way to turn off just those alerts without logging out of the app and missing more crucial notifications.
- Excellent Owner's (MyGenesis) website with manuals, real-time view of the car's status, maintenance info, etc. There's a 10 min timeout, which is way too short. If at 5 min when it asks you if you want to extend the session and you click no, it logs you out anyway. When looking for charging stations, it says "We are unable to find results for your search term."
- Some Genesis emails come from "Notification", some from "Genesis", some from "Genesis Connected Services", and some from "Genesis Motor America”. Emails that come from genesisconciergecenter@genesis-concierge.com don't display correctly on iPad due to font color issues. Notification emails have a bunch of image placeholders because the HTML can't be loaded from their website.
- The app requires a privacy policy ack every time it updates. The app says “Vehicle charging will complete based on your settings.”, where it used to have the # of minutes included as in “Vehicle charging will complete in 10 minutes based on your settings.”
- Doesn't do feathering of the brakes when using ACC, leading to jerky stops.
- The ultrasonic sensors keep beeping five times after an obstruction has passed.
- LKA gives frequent false positives especially on highway off-ramps.
Fortunately, over time software can be improved, while the hardware itself is already mostly sorted.
Design & Usability Quirks
- The cruise control button delay while holding the button to advance by 5MPH is SO slow compared to all other controls I’ve used, most of which use dual detents to expedite speed settings. I have to divert my eyes from the road for 5-10 seconds waiting for it to increment, which is really dangerous. I wish it was as fast as the temp up/down toggle is. It’s telling that this is the most irksome feature of the car.
- Drive Mode long press reverts from Custom to Snow Mode randomly.
- The DC charge cover cord is not long enough and gets in the way of inserting the charger.
- This has been discussed ad nauseam in the forums: I don't get why there’s the dash top light that glows orange to tell you when it's charging the 12V battery. That sends most owners to the manuals to see what's wrong with their car, I imagine. There’s no way to control the light, and no one cares that it’s charging the battery (unless they stare at it continuously for 24 hours and notice it never comes on, which MIGHT indicate a problem with the 12V battery that some have had issues with).
- Turn signal on rear is red, not amber: Less safe.
- The glossy black trim holding the rear view mirrors constantly flickers sunlight which distracts me.
- I love that the car auto-unlocks when I approach (although I wish it unlocked the doors before unfolding the mirrors, as I’m left waiting about a whole second for the door handle to pop out), so why can’t it auto-lock when I walk away?
- No rear wiper: Must rely on Rain-X.
- I'm hoping they'll soon support Euro-style matrix lighting in the US. I have it (via a firmware hack) on my GLS63 and it’s amazing.
- A 1 pound iPad sets off the passenger seat belt weight sensor, but 5 pounds of clothes does not.
- Phone charger overheats quickly and doesn’t have MagSafe/Qi2 magnets, and is therefore useless.
- The luggage net is almost worthless because unless they're tall, things just slide around underneath it. I haven’t bought the blocks you can adjust around objects.
- The manual has grammatical errors on many pages, including gems like this: "You can use AVN control if the search mode in the cluster widget of the cluster is not.", with no explanation of what AVN stands for either. The entire manual set consists of seven manuals. A binder contains the voluminous Owner’s Manual, Handbook Supplement (why it’s called a Handbook Supplement and not a Manual Supplement I’m not sure), and the Warranty Information, all in English. Those manuals all have white covers. But the car’s QRG (Quick Reference Guide) has a black cover and is not included in the binder, which is odd. Also not in the binder is the “ccIC” Connected Car Integrated Cockpit Owner’ Manual, QRG, and Connected Services User’s Manual, all with black covers, and not in a binder. The first two of those three are in four languages.
- No soft-close doors, although this isn’t needed often.
- The sunroof is set so far back as to not be useful for front seat folks.
- Despite all the plastic protection, the body trim has some extensive rub marks indicating either poor shipment packaging or harsh dealer prep.
(Please see Part 2)
