Roadtrip Discussion: Ethanol-Free or Top-Tier E10?

[Top Gear]

So, I've patiently run a Top-Tier premium ethanol-free version long enough now to at least imagine that I've gotten all the corn gunk out of my fuel system. The car runs like a top, and overall mileage is noticeably higher than before

But, say you're like me and want to avoid ethanol. You're out on a roadtrip, maybe in another region, and can't easily find a top ethanol-free - either because what's available is some mini-mart 87 for boaters, or the station you found on pure-gas.org has changed over to all E10. Would you run an easily found Top-Tier E10 instead just to get where you're going, or run some no-name 87 ethanol-free as you can find it? Which is better?? If you get the E10, will that ethanol residue clear out upon running it close to empty and returning to ethanol-free ASAP, or will it stay in the system long after and need many subsequent tanks to clear out?? Would a low-level brand of ethanol-free without Top-Tier additives create more deposits issues than running an E10 blend, particularly a Top-Tier brand??

Yes, I know this is nitpicking and there are much bigger problems in the world, but hey, you're clicking off the miles on a trip and have a choice to make...so...what would you do??

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Well, since Ethanol is NOTHING but a detergent for your engine (doesn't burn all too well in our normal cars) using an e-10 gas will not harm anything.

If you run e-10 and then re-fill with no e, it would just dilute the e10 into the e0. IMHO, find e0 or find premium e10. You already know that e0 is great for performance, economy and emissions. But e10 is more widely available. Avoid that e15 shit though!

OFG

 

[Southern Boy]

Gas is Gas.

The only difference is the additives to the gas.

Bayway (Exxon) refinery in New Jersey like all the other refineries in that area send all their refined gasoline to a huge tank farm via pipe lines. The gasoline is stored in huge tanks according to octane grade.

At the truck loading terminal you can see brand name tankers being loaded as well as generic tankers with the different octane rated fuels. The only difference is the additives injected into the fuel going into the tankers.

I make it a practice to only purchase fuel at stations that pump high volumes of fuel and receive tankers on a daily basics. This way you know you are getting fuel that is fresh, not fuel that has been laying around in an underground take for a couple of weeks. Fuel cannot be stored any longer than 90 days without a stabilizer being added; otherwise it loses a lot of its volatilely.

 

[Top Gear]

Yes, I agree with you both. Let me put it this way. For the purposes of argument, given a choice only between:

• Bottom-Tier "Regular" Ethanol-Free (no advanced additives, no corn gunk)
• Top-Tier "Premium" E10 Blend (highly advanced additives, 10% corn gunk)

WHICH is better, and WHY??

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Here's my subjective opinion based on driving 25-40k miles per year for many years. A high quality (top tier) E-10 is better than a low-quality corn-free fuel.

First, I have never had a fuel system failure with a top-tier, big brand fuel which 99% of the time in the last 10 years has been E10. On the other hand, I can remember getting bad fuel from no-name stations at least four times, where I suspected low turnover of inventory and poor equipment maintenance tainted the fuel. This was both before and after E10 was mainstreamed.

Second, it's very difficult to find 100% gasoline in most parts of the United States of EPA. The benefits of pure gas do not begin to outweigh the stress and cost of finding it on an extended road trip.

Yes, pure gas is better for your car, its efficiency and performance, the air and other natural resources and the economy. But E10, E15 or E40+ is better for lobbyists, politicians and big media. As much as I hate to point this out, hundreds of millions of miles have been driven on E10 with little proven problems to cars. However E15 will be a genuine disaster for cars, I believe, because they were not designed to use it.

The one constant is, EPA folks will continue to lie about the effect of E15 on cars, the economy and the environment, just like they have lied about the science. Enjoy your road trip!

 

[BrazGenesis]

From the Brazilian experience with ethanol: Premium E10 is by far the way to go.
High quality additives are important and, in general, we should avoid mixing them.
Cars have to be produced to live with ethanol. Nowadays it is quite common have 100% ethanol fuel in Brazil. But this took a time to be reflected in the materials used in the fuel system. In fact you can find flex fuel cars in Brazil: they work with either gas, ethanol or any mix of them.
Jorge

PS: Despite the evidence I prefer Premium E0. (not available there). But always premium. (that I am using as a synonym of top tier)

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Isn't Brazilian fuel made from bio refining sugar??

 

[brfatal]

Isn't Brazilian fuel made from bio refining sugar??

Yes. Sugar versus corn. Sugar is a much more efficient source of fuel though. The only reason we limit ourselves to corn is because of lobbying to the govt by corn farmers pressing for greater subsidies.

 

[Top Gear]

Here's my subjective opinion based on driving 25-40k miles per year for many years. A high quality (top tier) E-10 is better than a low-quality corn-free fuel.

I'm inclined to agree based on my similar experience, as well as the sheer frustration of finding ethanol-free, particularly a Top-Tier Premium. Purism is fine in theory, but when you need gas on some interstate exit, it's kinda hard to ignore the Top-Tier stations sitting right there, such as Shell, Chevron/Texaco, and Exxon/Mobil common in the Southeast. Maybe if I just stay with only the very best brands regardless of ethanol content then the problem will be moot. Fortunately, I can get a premium ethanol-free near-enough to home for regular use.

Still, I'm curious about other opinions and technical reasons, if anyone has other suggestions??

 

[Top Gear]

Well, I've had a chance to compare somewhat, on two recent trips 100 miles away to/from the same cities on the same highway under somewhat similar weather and driving conditions. Using the car's computer (which is accurate), one trip was all on the Shell V-Power E-free and I barely got above 23MPG at 75-80 or slower in a slight headwind and no wind coming back. On the trip yesterday, it went as high as 24MPG, occassionally pushing to 25 in not much wind. Half-way into yesterday's trip on empty, I got some Shell V-Power "Up to 10%" E10 (after being ethanol-free for a few months now) on an exit stop. Got right back on the interstate, and after adjusting, the computer settled into 26 and then 27MPG! Around town it did better than on E-free. Coming back last night, I got more V-Power E10 from another station entirely, and driving a bit slower at 70 it moved up to 28MPG, again with 26-27MPG at 75-80.

So...I have to say I'm eating some of my words in these gas threads Maybe the local station where I get the E-free has poor tank storage, or perhaps the additive mix in Shell's V-Power E10 is just better than the additive mix in V-Power E-free?? Maybe both? I guess I'll just run the widely available (Shell is everywhere in my area) and cheaper V-Power E10, just doing some E-free every once in a while...

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[Top Gear]

Another update, friends. I went on a trip this past weekend and finally had a chance to try some Chevron Techron Premium E10. The difference was very noticeable, in that the mileage went way up, 28-31MPG (and more) in slower highway driving, and the performance went a bit down, punching it through gears in town, as it felt sluggish (but still quick, mind you).

I then went back to Shell V-Power E10 and the performance came back up and mileage went back down to regular expectations, around 24-28. Back home again after the trip, and I've tried Exxon Premium E10 for comparison and the performance seems about the same as Shell but the mileage is down to 21-23. So, to those who think all gas is the same, the swings from 21-31MPG under far too similar conditions is a pretty wide swing, and with the performance changes, shows the computer aggressively retunes the engine significantly to match what's in the tank. So, I guess the difference is in the computer more than the gas??

I'm going back to Shell for consistent performance E0/E10 and pretty good mileage, expecting 22-25MPG (Ethanol Free) for around town peppy and throaty performance, and 24-28MPG (E10) for turning miles down the highway, or Chevron Techron where available (not where I live) for incredible mileage. Just wanted to share