Steering pulls to right

genesis333

Hasn't posted much yet...
9
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Hi all,

I have the 2015 5.0 with around 3000 miles, and my car is pulling to the right. I've found similar issues in the with gen 1 Genesis or the coupe forum, but could not find similar issues in the gen 2 forum.

I have rotated the staggered tires side to side, and also brought it to the dealer. The dealer acknowledged the issue with the initial alignment, and readjusted to the "factory spec", but the car still veers to the right (even considering the road crown). The dealer blames it on the tires, but I don't think the tires are the issue. I wanted to ask if others faced similar issues.. Thanks!
 

genesis333

Hasn't posted much yet...
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3
Not sure why the post is dated 2013.. (It was posted last week)
I've also read from Genesis Coupe forum that dealer alignment may not be as accurate as others that use the "Hunter" rack. Not sure if I need to bring the car to an independent shop..
 

XPO439

Registered Member
251
2
18
California
My car pulls to the right a little bit. BUT that's because I'm lowered and on 20s. I had it aligned at a reputable shop and they got it as close to factory as possible. Still veering a little bit to the right. I don't know if it can be fixed in my case. It's not that big of an issue to revert back to stock. And my treadwear is still looking good.

Hyundai dealerships will blame anything on mods. Those idiots told me the engine would blow up if you put aftermarket wheels on your car. Go to a reputable independent shop for your alignment problem.
 

cane2025

Registered Member
My car pull right too. I had it realigned at the dealer and was told that these vehicles tend to pull to the right. My vehicle does it very slightly and my wife's car does it too so I sort of beleive that that may be something with most Genesis.
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Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
On my 1G, right after I got my first set of new tires at about 20K miles, I took my car to a suspension shop to get an alignment. The shop was recommended by the tire installer (Costco).

First they aligned to factor specs, than did three test drives, and they adjusted the suspension after each time until it drove straight. It's been good even since then.
 

trespinosranch

Registered Member
159
0
16
Gilroy, CA
Years ago I had a car that pulled to the right and was told it was because many roads slope from the center of the roadway to the edge to make sure the rain runs off.

I haven't noticed my Genesis pulling though.
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Seejay

Registered Member
439
6
18
Houston
Years ago I had a car that pulled to the right and was told it was because many roads slope from the center of the roadway to the edge to make sure the rain runs off.

I haven't noticed my Genesis pulling though.
My car doesn't pull left or right, but it's a tad off when tracking through long curves. A good alignment would make it more fun to drive. The difference is amazing. On a perfectly circular curve, you can hold the wheel steady and not move it one centimeter. You have to find a good shop with a good tech who knows how to use the alignment machine he has.

Yes, if you do a track alignment where the caster is the same left and right, a left hand drive car (driving on the right side of the highway) will pull slightly to the right, the severity depending on how crowned the road is. Factory specs usually include more caster on the right front wheel to offset this effect (it would be the left front wheel on a car in the UK or Japan). This affects turn-in on a sharp right turn.

It's always been my experience that after a good alignment, any pulling was related to bad tires.
 

stumpie

Getting familiar with the group...
SUPPORTING MEMBER
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Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I've always heard that a negligible pull to the right is safest in case driver becomes unconscious or unresponsive - it is an effort to keep the car from veering into oncoming traffic (in US, of course this works best).

In every car I've driven it seems, if there was any noticeable pull it was always slightly to the right. I'd say if you're not having trouble controlling the vehicle or noting faster than normal tire wear, just deal with it.
I think that applies more to Front Wheel Drive cars, since only one of the wheels is the main drive wheel (unless there is traction problem). A RWD car should not have any problem driving straight.

I don't buy the reason that you heard (it being safer). Sounds like something a car salesman or service manager would say to weasel out of fixing the problem.

Since I got my Genesis to drive straight (mentioned in post above), it is much safer. There aren't that many streets that I drive on above 35 MPH that only have one lane each way, so veering to right is not necessarily safer unless one is in the right lane.
 

MikeyTG

Registered Member
390
4
18
Joisey
If it is caused by road crown then it should tend to track to the left in the left lane on a multi-lane highway. Mine tracks straight as an arrow.
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Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
On the 1G, especially 2009-2011, they attempted to make the steering/handling more responsive by manipulating the alignment specs (and they also made the suspension quite firm). This caused the tracking to be too sensitive to crowns in the road (there are no crowns at their California test track).

After I got my alignment done at an independent suspension shop, where they start with factory specs, but then adjust it as need to make the car go straight (based on multiple test drives), then I had no problems. But as most know, you can't good results with an alignment unless it is done right after new tires are installed, because if done later than the tires will usually have even wear on them (assuming car is not tracking straight).
 

Seejay

Registered Member
439
6
18
Houston
If it is caused by road crown then it should tend to track to the left in the left lane on a multi-lane highway. Mine tracks straight as an arrow.
Many multi-lane highways are slanted all the way across to reduce water accumulation in the median during heavy rain.

FWD cars cannot have much caster on the front wheels because they tend to torque steer if they do and caster is not adjustable on most of them (neither is camber for that matter). You can generally tell how much caster a front end has by how promptly the steering wheel returns to center after a corner.

@Mark_888: That's an interesting story about the 1G Genesis. Most luxury RWD cars have a good bit of caster because the average owner does not want to futz with the steering wheel which is the opposite of a track setup.
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Many multi-lane highways are slanted all the way across to reduce water accumulation in the median during heavy rain.

FWD cars cannot have much caster on the front wheels because they tend to torque steer if they do and caster is not adjustable on most of them (neither is camber for that matter). You can generally tell how much caster a front end has by how promptly the steering wheel returns to center after a corner.

@Mark_888: That's an interesting story about the 1G Genesis. Most luxury RWD cars have a good bit of caster because the average owner does not want to futz with the steering wheel which is the opposite of a track setup.
In addition to slopes on the road for drainage, there are often indentations in the road just from wear and tear that tires make in the asphalt, especially from trucks. It really just depends on how often the roads are resurfaced.

For the 2009 Genesis released in 2008 to US market, the former CEO of HMA (Hyundai Motor America), John Krafcik was part of the Genesis design team right before he became CEO, especially relating to the suspension setup for the USA model, which was done differently than for the Korean model (the KDM version of the suspension was judged to be too soft for American tastes). Krafcik said (you can still find the video on YouTube) in an interview with Car and Driver, that they were aiming for the 2009 Genesis to drive like an Infinity M, and specially NOT like a Lexus (this was before Lexus stiffened up their suspensions recently).

All of the suspension design work for the USA Genesis model was done in California. The early 2009 suspension was way too stiff, and the springs were overpowering the shocks. It drove perfect on a perfect road, but the slightest bumps caused problems. Driving at slow speed on even a slightly bumpy road would cause the car to porpoise up and down, especially in the rear. People were carrying sand bags in the trunk to help alleviate the problem.

Hyundai improved it moderately over the years from 2010-2011, and made a big change in 2012. I ended up changing all the shocks, struts, and rear stabilizer bar on my early 2009 with the 2010 versions, and that made a big difference (still firm, but not gyrating up and down and loosing control on the rear end), along with replacing the very stiff OEM Dunlop tires.

A few early Genesis owners traded-in or sold their car within weeks of driving it off the lot, and taking big depreciation hits. When we did test drives on perfectly flat streets the problems were not evident. Krafcik ended up getting fired, IMO partly because his vision of the Genesis was as a sports sedan, and they Korean's wanted a luxury sedan.
 

inmanlanier

Getting familiar with the group...
78
10
8
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
Pulling is either due to faulty tires, or caster settings. Yes, crowned roads tend to make the car fall to the right (at least in North America!), however alignment can be adjusted to account for this.

In the day - toe, caster and camber were all adjustable for vehicles. Then, to save a nickel, the manufacturer's relied on their 'precision' manufacturing tolerances as preventing the need to adjust caster and camber. WRONG. We ran into this problem in my 2011 Genesis since it pulled a bit to the right. The work-around is to shim the appropriate bolts behind the control arm mounting bracket. 99% of the alignment folks out there would have no clue how to do this, because 99% of the alignment goons just know how to set toe, let alone have any comprehension what the other two settings do.

Unfortunately I just checked the alignment on my recently acquired 2015 5.0. It has significant negative camber both front and rear. There are signs of inner tire wear as a result. In addition, like many of these cars, it pulls to the right. The rear is fully adjustable, no issues. We didn't have time to do the adjustments since it will be tedious so we'll be setting the alignment tomorrow. I understand to change caster (we'll likely bias is 1 to 2 degrees less on the left front to counter the pull) - we simply need to either use the Mercedes eccentric control arm through bolts, OR slot the holes. Not sure how we'll adjust camber yet.

It's disappointing since on the first Gen cars, MANY of them pulled rights (as noted above). I did have better luck with the Bridgestones, however we had to shim the control arm brackets to get where we wanted to be. See this for more detail: How to adjust caster and camber 2011 4.6 I would have hoped that Genesis would have remedied the problem with this version, but no so lucky - only toe is currently adjustable. We may have to again cleverly tweak/shim things to move the control arm pickups.

I'll try and be there to work with my buds guy (still Marcello) and I'll update you with what we note.
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Scottish Guy

Hasn't posted much yet...
77
12
8
Crieff, Scotland, UK
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
I agree re tyres being an important cause of drifting, after only 10k miles I had to replace the factory fitted front tyres due to pothole damage and since fitment there has been a definite drift to the left [ RHD Model ].
While not top of the range tyres they are a decent make, I tried swapping the wheels round but no difference was evident.
 

inmanlanier

Getting familiar with the group...
78
10
8
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
One thing a lot of people don't consider is the effect of a driver in the car on alignement. When an alignment is done, the static readings are set with the car 'empty'. When weight is added in the car, the suspension moves to accommodate - and the movement may not be slight from an alignment perspective. When we aligned our road race cars, we always did it with a driver in the car. Normally, if not inconvenient, I do the same with my street autos. The other day, we noted ~.3 degree caster change and 0.4 degree camber change - unfortunately both in the wrong direction when I got in the car. I weight approximately 220 lbs.

Regarding tires - the shop I use (also a racing bud of mine) experienced quite a bit of change in pull over time for the first Gen Genesis cars like mine. The local Hyundai dealer often used his shop to try and correct pull since they were clueless. He and I both noted that initially you could put brand new tires on (no noted pull), but after time the pull would become more pronounced on the first Gens. I noted that behaviour with my first pair of Continental replacements. The change with the Bridgestone tires was much less (hardly noticeable). He said for other vehicles exhibiting this symptom, this was typical of defective tires that had belt issues going (ultimately found to be defective). It was odd on the first Gen Genesis to exhibit this behavior with much more prevalence, because the tires on the Genesis never showed any other symptoms of issues (i.e. the belts were fine).
 

Scottish Guy

Hasn't posted much yet...
77
12
8
Crieff, Scotland, UK
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
I wonder if wheel diameter has an effect , if the tyres are different makes say, the left wheel diameter is 4 mm less than the right wheel would that make the car drift to one side ?

It's annoyance of mine, in a 10 year old car it's to be expected, but the last 4 new cars I've had straight line
stability has been compromised after only a few thousand miles, yet manufacturers persist in
not making front suspension camber and caster adjustable.
I think maybe my old Crown Vic was the last car I had that all steering angles were able to be tweaked.
 

inmanlanier

Getting familiar with the group...
78
10
8
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
Yes, to some degree diameter and tire width have effects, all in varying amounts.

OK - quick summary (I'm off to a long drive tomorrow in the car and don't have time) - the long and the short of it is that we were successful. Preliminary driving appears the pull is gone. We ended up slotting 4 locations (same two each side): the two lower control arm frame pivot points (primarily for camber), and the two upper angular member frame holes (primarily for caster). Since the latter two holes will also slightly impact camber, it was an iterative adjustment. I'll post pictures and numbers later. Now the front suspension is completely adjustable as it should have been from Genesis. I'll likely give them feedback (less than positive) about me spending a couple of hundred dollars for their $5 savings on the assembly line; it's not what should happen.

The disappointing part was the rear - I don't know why they have alignment specs with 1 1/2 degrees negative these days but that's it. It's way too much - we're not racing and that only wears out the inner edges. I was only able to adjust the rear down to 1.2 degrees negative.

Likely Monday I'll post details and photos.
 
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