The competition (well, Lexus)...

YEH

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Lexus is developing a TTV8 via help of their racing program.

Likely slated for the LC 500 and probably the LS 500 as well; both of which have been slow sellers, so don't see how Toyota is going to get much, if any, ROI.

As much as have wanted Genesis to develop a smaller displacement TTV8, think they made the right choice in not going ahead w/ it.

Can get more power/performance by electric assist to the 3.5TT; tho down the road, think it would be good if Genesis switched to an I6 (that is, if ICE is still viable).

Despite previous indication, seems that an all-new IS won't be happening anytime soon and that instead, will (like the LS 460), get a 2nd more extensive refresh (w/ a new 2.4T engine).

An all-new IS likely won't happen until Mazda develops its RWD platform and I6 engine (of which Lexus would borrow).

Well, this certainly saves on development costs.
 
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YEH

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Today, the Lexus LS is still very much around and, for this month, it's on sale with thousands of dollars off its MSRP. Lexus right now is officially advertising the 2019 LS and LS Hybrid with up to $8,500 in savings.

Here's how it works: Both the 2019 Lexus LS and LS Hybrid have a $6,000 cashback offer.


This is good for the LS 500, LS 500 F Sport, LS 500 AWD, and LS 500 AWD F Sport. The LS Hybrid and LS Hybrid AWD are also included. The remaining $2,500 in discounts come by way of loyalty cash.

This additional $2,500 can be applied to all of the aforementioned LS trims as long as the customer, or another member of their household, currently owns or leases a Lexus. Add it all up and a 2019 Lexus LS can now be purchased for $66,950 instead of $75,450. An LS 500 AWD F Sport normally begins at $84,670. Do the math and it now drops to $76,170.



Not surprising considering how LS 500 sales have fallen (once dealer discounts taken into account, talking more than $8.5k off MSRP).

But still, this puts pricing pressure on the G90 (even the F/L) as Genesis still has to offer a certain value quotient.
 

Backslack

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If Lexus cancels the IS and GS, they will be dead to me as a company. And at the rate the LS is selling, I wouldn't expect them to prioritize that vehicle in the future either. At this point the only reason they're selling is due to their FWD crossovers and the ES, all of which are based on FWD Toyota products.

The LC is nice, but like the Acura NSX it's not at all representative of the rest of the company's ambitions.
 

Mr. Incredible

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Lexus vehicles are over priced for what they are, they are no longer the high resale upscale models they once were, and they are boring as hell, nothing more than over priced Toyota's many of them sharing the came components and chassis as their Toyota counter parts.

The LS is a nice vehicle but IMO $15K too much for what is offered on it.

The LC is a niche car like the Corvette, not meant for high sales numbers, only appeals to a niche crowd.

The RC is another niche car and is redundant IMO since it and the LC share the same Drivetrain.

The IS and GS are both long in the tooth and need a serious refresh.
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Mr. Incredible

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The RC's platform is a combination of the IS and GS, and equally dated as both. It's a weird half-assed frankenstein of a vehicle that doesn't do anything particularly better than the GS-F and is actually worse in some ways.

100% agree. having owed one... nice car, but even new it felt dated.
 

Backslack

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Speaking of the RC, this exists and I have no idea why. At 96k+ USD, it's cannibalizing the already meager LC sales. Lexus is running around like a chicken with its head cut off with its priorities all over the map.

 

OMG70

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Lexus vehicles are over priced for what they are, they are no longer the high resale upscale models they once were, and they are boring as hell, nothing more than over priced Toyota's many of them sharing the came components and chassis as their Toyota counter parts.

The LS is a nice vehicle but IMO $15K too much for what is offered on it.

The LC is a niche car like the Corvette, not meant for high sales numbers, only appeals to a niche crowd.

The RC is another niche car and is redundant IMO since it and the LC share the same Drivetrain.

The IS and GS are both long in the tooth and need a serious refresh.

I wouldn't put the LC in the same category as the Vette. The LC is so underwhelming for a car in that price. Autocrossed one and the whole time I was just thinking "I could do this faster in my G70."

That said, the argument could be made that Genesis vehicles share a lot of the same parts bins as Hyundai (and partially Kia too). Not to the same extent as Toyota/Lexus though
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RCH04

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We'll have to wait a while to see if the Genesis division will have anything close to the same 30 year success rate that Lexus has.

In recent years though, too much of Lexus' volume is coming from the (relatively) lower priced FWD based models like the ES and RX and as mentioned here their upper tier models seem to be languishing. Makes me wonder what their long term plan is - I assume they have one.
 

Backslack

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The LC is so underwhelming for a car in that price. Autocrossed one and the whole time I was just thinking "I could do this faster in my G70."
LC is a GT car, not a track machine. It sits on the same platform as the massive LS sedan. Granted, it would get smoked by most other GT cars like the S-Class coupe too, but it does stand out from the crowd.
 
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OMG70

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LC is a GT car, not a track machine. It sits on the same platform as the massive LS sedan. Granted, it would get smoked by most other GT cars like the S-Class coupe too, but it does stand out from the crowd.

Tell that to Lexus. The autocross was part of their promotional event where they were showing off only their vehicles. Clearly they decided the best way to showcase the LC was to let us attempt to tip the thing over and shred the tires off it.
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Mr. Incredible

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I wouldn't put the LC in the same category as the Vette. The LC is so underwhelming for a car in that price. Autocrossed one and the whole time I was just thinking "I could do this faster in my G70."

That said, the argument could be made that Genesis vehicles share a lot of the same parts bins as Hyundai (and partially Kia too). Not to the same extent as Toyota/Lexus though


I'm not putting it in the same performance category, but it is in the same category insofar as it is a niche car aimed at a specific buyer/enthusiast. vs. the everyday commuter that would look past the LC at the ES, IS, or GS.

comparatively Porsches and Corvettes are also both niche vehicles but they appeal to two entirely different crowds.
 

Backslack

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Tell that to Lexus. The autocross was part of their promotional event where they were showing off only their vehicles. Clearly they decided the best way to showcase the LC was to let us attempt to tip the thing over and shred the tires off it.
Ultimately, that's just marketing. It's like the silly attempts by every mainstream manufacturer nowadays to add in some kind of mild "off-road" course for whatever new CUV they have, even though few of them are really capable of actual off-roading.

I think Lexus would have sold a lot more LC's had they offered it in AWD. It's one of the few GT cars that's only available in RWD. Heck even the Jagur F-Type offers AWD.
 
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YEH

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In recent years though, too much of Lexus' volume is coming from the (relatively) lower priced FWD based models like the ES and RX and as mentioned here their upper tier models seem to be languishing. Makes me wonder what their long term plan is - I assume they have one.

It,'s been that way for some years now, and has only gotten worse w/ the UX.

Last year, Lexus only sold 33,233 of their RWD sedans, and that's fallen off even further for this year.

The GS is just about as good as gone and seems like Lexus isn't keen on investing too much into the IS (hence, a 2nd refresh planned) until Mazda's new RWD platform and I6 are ready (won't be until around 2023).

Can see the next LS converging w/ the Toyota Crown (sharing more components).
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ikonn

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The LC needed AWD, more power and a more contemporary interior. Maybe slightly more rear legroom. Other than those minor things...it’s a sweet ride!

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YEH

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There's a diff. report saying that Lexus is indeed going ahead w/ an in-house developed next gen IS (same report says that the GS is a goner),; guess we'll see soon enough which report is accurate.
 

dingyibvs

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Lexus' main issue is its woefully outdated and cumbersome infotainment system. Most buyers, particularly Lexus buyers, care more about the infotainment system than performance. That's very different from the enthusiast market who form a tiny proportion of car buyers but a majority of online content from reviews to comments on the reviews and message boards. They're fine with the performance tradeoffs if they get the Lexus reliability. The terrible infotainment system is inexcusable however, and it's something people would notice right away.

Both my family and my wife's family have been all Japanese cars, predominantly Toyota products. Her side has had a Camry, an Avalon, a 4Runner, and a CRV. My side with a Camry, an Accord, a 4Runner, a Sentra, a Mazda 626, and a Corolla. Our first car purchase as a couple was a 2014 Lexus RX as a replacement for her Camry. Now it's time to replace my Camry, and we're not looking at Toyota/Lexus anymore because of the infotainment system. I can live with the less performance, but I can't live with a beautiful LCD screen that I never use, or a solid rattle-free interior that's ruined by my phone-holder's rattle.
 

Backslack

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Just saw the "new" IS reveal. Still uses the same V6 engine from 15 years ago, with almost no bump in power. Same platform, same interior, only thing changed was the outside. Utterly embarrassing. Lexus clearly does not care anymore, and Genesis is loving every second of this neglect.

 
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