The competition (well, Lexus)...

YEH

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Front is an improvement (still not my style), but the rear doesn't look like it belongs on sporty RWD lux sedan.

In addition, Lexus is stating a 0-60 time of 6.0s which is slower than previously.
 

Backslack

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the rear doesn't look like it belongs on sporty RWD lux sedan.
Chris Bangle would disagree. :ROFLMAO:

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I'd like to see the JDM fanboys defend this while they wave their stick of delusional hypocrisy about Korean cars somehow being "ripoffs".
 

YEH

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^ Ha, I'm talking more about that taillight design.

Speaking of BMW, the greenhouse/C-pillar of the IS looks more like a BMW than many BMWs these days.
 

genesis4650

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Just saw the "new" IS reveal. Still uses the same V6 engine from 15 years ago, with almost no bump in power. Same platform, same interior, only thing changed was the outside. Utterly embarrassing. Lexus clearly does not care anymore, and Genesis is loving every second of this neglect.


Lexus should start taking Genesis seriously. I am sure GV80 will be a success and in the long run, it will potentially outsell the RX if Lexus doesnt do anything with it.
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MrMegadeth

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Well, Lexus will do something to fight back.....they'll make the grill even bigger. Eventually, it'll be so big it'll have its own gravity and everyone will buy one because you are orbiting the damn thing anyway. :rolleyes:
 

RCH04

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Lexus should start taking Genesis seriously. I am sure GV80 will be a success and in the long run, it will potentially outsell the RX if Lexus doesnt do anything with it.

The RX does seem to be vulnerable with all of the new CUV/SUV's on the market - Especially the GV80. On the other hand Lexus keeps selling around 100k of them per year thru their well established dealer network. They seem to do what's necessary to protect their high volume model.
 

dingyibvs

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Toyota/Lexus historically has done a good job of making cars that people want. Not what they say they want or even what they think they want, but what they actually want based on use data. A good example would be when they created/popularized crossovers in the form of the RAV4 and the RX based on data suggesting that people rarely go significantly off-road or tow heavy objects. The latest updates to the RX will keep it quite competitive as it finally caught up on tech. Few will have reason to switch to the GV80 IMO. A more powerful engine is really the main objective advantage, and few RX owners IMO will consider the existing 300+ HP in the RX to be bothersome enough to switch brands. Being RWD based will make next to no difference.

I'm speaking as an RX450h owner who's looking to buy a G80 (if I can just find one!) as a 2nd car for my family. The RX is a very comfortable, reliable, and practical vehicle with an interior that exudes quality. It's really a perfect family car.

Due to their heavy investment in hydrogen fuel cells, however, Toyota/Lexus missing the boat on EVs. I can see that as their potential eventual downfall. Hyundai/Kia have been doing an excellent job in catching up to Tesla on EVs, and I hope that eventually spreads to Genesis as well. I think it will happen for the next generation of Genesis vehicles, and I think that's when HKG can truly become a powerhouse that can dethrone Toyota/Lexus.
 

Backslack

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Toyota/Lexus historically has done a good job of making cars that people want. Not what they say they want or even what they think they want, but what they actually want based on use data. A good example would be when they created/popularized crossovers in the form of the RAV4 and the RX based on data suggesting that people rarely go significantly off-road or tow heavy objects. The latest updates to the RX will keep it quite competitive as it finally caught up on tech. Few will have reason to switch to the GV80 IMO. A more powerful engine is really the main objective advantage, and few RX owners IMO will consider the existing 300+ HP in the RX to be bothersome enough to switch brands. Being RWD based will make next to no difference.
The RX is popular because it's priced like an X3 with the interior space of an X5. Same with the Lexus ES, which is priced like a 3-Series but with more space than a 5-Series. They are essentially fancier versions of the Avalon and last-gen Highlander. In no way does the tech, luxury, materials, or driving dynamics of those vehicles come close to the GV80/G80, even the old one, nevermind the Germans. If Lexus did actually try to make something on the level of the GV80 in SUV form and priced it accordingly, it would be unsuccessful like their GS. And I say this as a GS owner.

Fact is, Lexus is moving downmarket by rebadging more cheap FWD Toyota crossovers and killing off/ignoring their aging RWD lineup. Unlike Genesis, they're scared to compete with Europe and are happy being Toyota+. But is that really the path to long-term success? If it was, they wouldn't be outsold by both BMW and Mercedes despite offering a cheaper lineup. All they are doing now is devaluing their own brand.
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OMG70

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The RX is popular because it's priced like an X3 with the interior space of an X5. Same with the Lexus ES, which is priced like a 3-Series but with more space than a 5-Series. They are essentially fancier versions of the Avalon and last-gen Highlander. In no way does the tech, luxury, materials, or driving dynamics of those vehicles come close to the GV80/G80, even the old one, nevermind the Germans. If Lexus did actually try to make something on the level of the GV80 in SUV form and priced it accordingly, it would be unsuccessful like their GS. And I say this as a GS owner.

Fact is, Lexus is moving downmarket by rebadging more cheap FWD Toyota crossovers and killing off/ignoring their aging RWD lineup. Unlike Genesis, they're scared to compete with Europe and are happy being Toyota+. But is that really the path to long-term success? If it was, they wouldn't be outsold by both BMW and Mercedes despite offering a cheaper lineup. All they are doing now is devaluing their own brand.

It seems that all the Japanese "luxury" brands are basically just + models of their parents. I wouldn't say that's a bad thing but rather something to acknowledge. They aren't building these vehicles to target the exact same market segment as Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. They're targeting the middle section of "feigned luxury" car buyers. The people who are actually counting their dollars, no brand loyalty, but want something where the badge has a little more respect. I envision this group as people who buy base model bottom tier German cars (C300/A250, A4, 330i). It's a decent business model when you consider how much less they spend (I'm making a big assumption here) on parts/materials/R&D

That's not to say Genesis isn't in a similar boat. I just think Genesis does it better and IS actually targeting the German competition directly. The issue is that there is still that + model aspect to it (shared parts bins and very similar design language at times in the Hyundai brand). It's a new brand though. They're finding their identity and I think they'll make it strides to improve as they gain footing in the market
 

YEH

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Lexus should start taking Genesis seriously. I am sure GV80 will be a success and in the long run, it will potentially outsell the RX if Lexus doesnt do anything with it.

Highly doubt that as the GV80 is pricier and Genesis doesn't have the production capacity for the GV80 like what Lexus has for the RX and RX-L.


The RX does seem to be vulnerable with all of the new CUV/SUV's on the market - Especially the GV80. On the other hand Lexus keeps selling around 100k of them per year thru their well established dealer network. They seem to do what's necessary to protect their high volume model.

FWD-based lux CUVs are more vulnerable to the top spec trims of mainstream CUVs like the Telluride and Palisade, esp. with the Palisade getting the even higher Calligraphy trim (the Telluride will be getting a new high end trim as well).


That's not to say Genesis isn't in a similar boat. I just think Genesis does it better and IS actually targeting the German competition directly. The issue is that there is still that + model aspect to it (shared parts bins and very similar design language at times in the Hyundai brand). It's a new brand though. They're finding their identity and I think they'll make it strides to improve as they gain footing in the market

Sticking to RWD will differentiate Genesis from the Japanese.

Genesis already has an ATP on par with Lexus and Infiniti and about $10k higher than Acura (with a current lineup entirely made up of sedans.

Once the CUVs and t he new G80 are added to the lineup, Genesis will pass Lexus when it comes to ATP.

The last Genesis model where it is evident that it shares some stuff with Hyundai models is the G70.

The next G70 will get the full Genesis treatment (with a full Genesis lineup, there is now economies of scale).
 
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Aquineas

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Backslack

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According to the latest Consumer Reports update, the LS500 is a reliability disaster. 13/100 on their reliability score, suffering serious issues with its engine, fuel injectors, brakes, body rigidity, electronics, etc. It was so bad it single-handedly dragged the brand down two spots in the rankings. Was this car really developed by Lexus?

It's painful seeing the brand literally crash and burn like this. If they want to survive a V8-less future, at the very least they should get their turbo V6 working.

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Mr. Incredible

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According to the latest Consumer Reports update, the LS500 is a reliability disaster. 13/100 on their reliability score, suffering serious issues with its engine, fuel injectors, brakes, body rigidity, electronics, etc. It was so bad it single-handedly dragged the brand down two spots in the rankings. Was this car really developed by Lexus?

It's painful seeing the brand literally crash and burn like this. If they want to survive a V8-less future, at the very least they should get their turbo V6 working.

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Not really surprised, once Toyota unseated the “big 3” as the top selling vehicle in the US, their quality started going to $hit. My wife is a Toyota-Fan-Girl, and has had 5 since 1997, we can truly see a downgrade in the overall build and mechanical quality over the years.

Her 1997 through 2007 never saw a dealership for warranty work EVER, The 2014 and 2017 have managed to spend a significant amount of time getting stupid (IMO) things fixed under warranty.

Squeaky sunroof
loose driver seat
non-working driver seat (Power module failed)
blend door failure in HVAC unit
head unit failure (radio/GPS would not turn on)
door lock actuator failure
power window failure.
Hybrid battery failure at 42,000 miles. Required complete replacement of battery.

That was the 2014 Camry, the 2017 hasn’t been “as bad” but has had LED failures in the head and tail lights, blend door issues, and Now has some rattle that comes about when the HVAC motor is on medium to high,


My 2015 Lexes RCF also had a number of little issues that became annoying.
 
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