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Theoretical 500HP G70?

matpal

Registered Member
103
31
28
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I've never had a car that was really "mod-able" before and my head has been spinning the month I've owned this vehicle as to all the things possible to do.

It got me thinking that 500HP "should" be within range, unless I'm way over estimating the cumulative effective of upgrades.

I would think JB4, snorkels, intakes, intercooler, downpipes and exhaust would get you to that magic 500. Am I way off?

Second question is, would this be a really bad idea? I know next to nothing about modding cars (so thankful for this forum) and not sure if this would be asking for long term issues.

Probably a moot discussion anyway as everything now has to pass the wife factor. Hard to convince her that dropping another $3k or so into an already depreciating asset is a good idea.
 

joschneider

G70 Member
702
797
93
Las Vegas, NV
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I've never had a car that was really "mod-able" before and my head has been spinning the month I've owned this vehicle as to all the things possible to do.

It got me thinking that 500HP "should" be within range, unless I'm way over estimating the cumulative effective of upgrades.

I would think JB4, snorkels, intakes, intercooler, downpipes and exhaust would get you to that magic 500. Am I way off?

Second question is, would this be a really bad idea? I know next to nothing about modding cars (so thankful for this forum) and not sure if this would be asking for long term issues.

Probably a moot discussion anyway as everything now has to pass the wife factor. Hard to convince her that dropping another $3k or so into an already depreciating asset is a good idea.
if youve never modded before, really think on this. It can turn a car you love driving into a car youre afraid will break every time you turn it on. Certain mods are really low risk, like intakes and catback exhaust. But once you start getting into tuning the engine, messing with larger bolt ons, etc you run some big risks and with those risks comes the headache of worrying which can sour the taste of a new car. Modding can also turn a nice daily driver into something much less relaxing to drive. No risk, no reward but really do some thinking on it, especially since you wont be able to fix anything yourself if something goes wrong
 

Beefer

I’m faster
3,960
3,315
113
Richmond, VA
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I've never had a car that was really "mod-able" before and my head has been spinning the month I've owned this vehicle as to all the things possible to do.

It got me thinking that 500HP "should" be within range, unless I'm way over estimating the cumulative effective of upgrades.

I would think JB4, snorkels, intakes, intercooler, downpipes and exhaust would get you to that magic 500. Am I way off?

Second question is, would this be a really bad idea? I know next to nothing about modding cars (so thankful for this forum) and not sure if this would be asking for long term issues.

Probably a moot discussion anyway as everything now has to pass the wife factor. Hard to convince her that dropping another $3k or so into an already depreciating asset is a good idea.
I think it would be tough to pull off...as the JB4 has its limits being a piggyback.

If you get a real ECU tune...that would be a game changer. I have not heard of any. But you are playing with fire at this point as your warranty would go POOF !
 

maxsilver

Registered Member
207
182
43
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So I've never had a car that was really "mod-able" before and my head has been spinning the month I've owned this vehicle as to all the things possible to do.

It got me thinking that 500HP "should" be within range, unless I'm way over estimating the cumulative effective of upgrades.

I would think JB4, snorkels, intakes, intercooler, downpipes and exhaust would get you to that magic 500. Am I way off?

Second question is, would this be a really bad idea? I know next to nothing about modding cars (so thankful for this forum) and not sure if this would be asking for long term issues.

Probably a moot discussion anyway as everything now has to pass the wife factor. Hard to convince her that dropping another $3k or so into an already depreciating asset is a good idea.
Just an intake and JB4 in Map 2 alone nets about 410 wheel horsepower, which according to the following calculator is 500 HP at the crank when picking AWD and modern automatic transmission.

______________________________
 

Toddasaurus

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
2,092
2,445
113
Portland, OR
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
It's tough to be precise when it comes to estimating crank HP from wheel HP. All dynos will read somewhat differently, and the conversion, or drivetrain loss, isn't linear.

Even so, I really don't think 500hp is attainable on stock turbos. Hybrid turbos from Pure were showing about 470whp, but that was using race fuel, WMI, and bolt ons. Also, Lap3 were showing around 500+whp with their big turbo upgrade.

So far it looks like the stock engine is able to handle this power relatively well. It seems to be built very well. The stock transmission, in the other hand, doesn't seem to be up to the task. Once you start pushing a lot of HP and torque through the tranny it start having shifting problems, and it looks like the test bed for BMS with the pure turbo swap has blown their tranny. Lap3 has been totally silent about their big turbo upgrade after they posted their Dyno results, and I wouldn't be surprised if they blew their tranny as well.

On top of this, at least two Stinger owners have said that they're having transmission problems after playing around with the brake cut mod by building too much boost during launch control.

With this in mind, I think going for 500 hp, wether it's WHP or crank HP, is pointless because it's power you can't utilize. The G70 is built well, but the transmission seems to be a weak link.
 

Torqued

New member
8
8
3
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I also suspected the tranny as the most likely weak link. Is there any indication there will be options to beef up the tranny? I have an AWD, so i am curious if this helps/hurts? Do we have anyone pushing 450+ on AWD yet?
 

Toddasaurus

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
2,092
2,445
113
Portland, OR
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I think you guys are right. Just installed my JB4 again, using my own map 6, and it feels like a little rocket already. I'm hoping that after I get my intake, mid pipes and cat-back exhaust, and intercooler installed that it will be sufficient. But if it doesn't knock my socks off, I'll try Water injection or the full water/meth combo and see how it goes.
 

FastEddie

“Did you check the safety manual?” -Yogi Bear
359
397
63
Gilbert, AZ
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I think you guys are right. Just installed my JB4 again, using my own map 6, and it feels like a little rocket already. I'm hoping that after I get my intake, mid pipes and cat-back exhaust, and intercooler installed that it will be sufficient. But if it doesn't knock my socks off, I'll try Water injection or the full water/meth combo and see how it goes.
Todd watch this about Water Meth. I just watch it this morning.

 

Toddasaurus

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
2,092
2,445
113
Portland, OR
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Todd watch this about Water Meth. I just watch it this morning.

I really like engine masters, they do cool comparisons.

The problem with that video though, in terms of the JB4 and G70, is they aren't altering the timing and boost to take advantage of the increased octane provided by the water/meth mixture. JB4 increases boost with WMI, so WMI for our cars is just another way to increase octane, and subsequently add boost, as opposed to using high octane gasoline.

If I were to add WMI on my current setup without changing boost or timing, or fueling, then I'm sure I'd have the same results as them.

If I had control of boost and timing directly from the ECU, then I'd have better results by just using an adequate intercooler. Unfortunately right now we're stuck with the magic and trickery of piggybacks. Skewing those boost and timing tables requires us to resort to insane octane levels just for small gains in power. :/
______________________________
 
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FastEddie

“Did you check the safety manual?” -Yogi Bear
359
397
63
Gilbert, AZ
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
The were also talking about the manifold being designed as a dry air only manifold and not getting even distribution.
 

Toddasaurus

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
2,092
2,445
113
Portland, OR
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
The were also talking about the manifold being designed as a dry air only manifold and not getting even distribution.
This is true. But, I think that concept is primarily speculation in their part, at least in terms of them not seeing any gains. Even so, such an argument carries more validity on an NA engine design, vs a factory boosted design like ours. There isn't much emphasis on acoustics when it comes to IM design for a factory turbo'd vehicle, which usually translates to more direct intake tracts with shorter runners. EVEN SO, it is a good point to consider. Is there a risk that not all 6 cylinders are receiving an even amount of well atomized water/meth vapor? It's something we can't visualize directly, BUT we can see evidence of it with ignition timing values for each cylinder - and lucky for us the JB4 allows us to view those values. That said, if we see one or two cylinders dropping timing while the rest are staying consistent, then we know that those are running hotter than the rest, and it would make sense that maybe those cylinders aren't receiving the same benefits from WMI as the others.

We can also check the plugs to see evidence of this.

I've yet to see any fully detailed logs of people using WMI on the JB4, but many have been using it for a while without any problems so I think it may be worth trying. But, if/when I do, you bet I'll be analyzing my logs in great detail along with pulling my plugs to verify.
 

joschneider

G70 Member
702
797
93
Las Vegas, NV
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I saw this a few weeks ago....

lap3 and JB4 are well known in the stinger/genesis communities. The consensus is that they have about all the same features, with JB4 being half the cost of the lap3 protuner. But yea, 500 crank horsepower is doable on either piggyback (with some bolt ons) but reliability is still not completely vetted yet
______________________________
 

CannonBall

Registered Member
42
10
8
DC area
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
yeah, I have no clue about either lap3 or jb4. I was just commenting on theoretical 500 hp. 450 to the wheels would be pretty nice (not that I would ever be able to use that power in the DC area).
 
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