Volt: GM's 230 MPG Rating Is Unrealistic

[TJPark01]

Will wonders never cease in cleantech communication?
GM announced today that the EPA has given the GM Volt a MPG rating on the city cycle of 230 miles. Sounds great, right?
The problem is that anytime you try to get to "miles per gallon" using vehicles that don't necessary use "gallons" you end up in a very strange debate with very strange outcomes.
Rational people can argue that to determine the MPG equivalent of an electric vehicle you simply take the energy equivalent of a gallon of gas (33.7 kWh) and determine how far the electric vehicle would go on that energy. A fairer way to measure this is to count energy coming out of the source, since there are losses in the charging process (forget for a minute losses during transmission and the whole issue of how electricity is generated)

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[Pwrplay]

LMAO!! The EPA are just a bunch of tree hugging morons in my opinion. How can something that uses NO Gallons of anything have an MPG rating of something.

I get the comparison equivalent between the energy in a gallon of gas etc.. but instead of trying to compare Apples to Underwear, why don't they just start using a measurement that can be compared between ALL electric propulsion systems. That way the consumer can see real numbers instead of fictitious ones.

Maybe something like MBC (Miles Between Charge)

 

[TJPark01]

LMAO!! The EPA are just a bunch of tree hugging morons in my opinion. How can something that uses NO Gallons of anything have an MPG rating of something.

I get the comparison equivalent between the energy in a gallon of gas etc.. but instead of trying to compare Apples to Underwear, why don't they just start using a measurement that can be compared between ALL electric propulsion systems. That way the consumer can see real numbers instead of fictitious ones.

Maybe something like MBC (Miles Between Charge)

It's a joke. Do they really think the public is that stupid?

 

[ctrcbob]

LMAO!! The EPA are just a bunch of tree hugging morons in my opinion. How can something that uses NO Gallons of anything have an MPG rating of something.

I get the comparison equivalent between the energy in a gallon of gas etc.. but instead of trying to compare Apples to Underwear, why don't they just start using a measurement that can be compared between ALL electric propulsion systems. That way the consumer can see real numbers instead of fictitious ones.

Maybe something like MBC (Miles Between Charge)

It does NOT use "no gallons". It has a gasoline engine that is used only to charge the battery when on the road. I.E., the engine does NOT drive the car, like a Prius. the car only moves from battery power, and once you go over that 40 miles of charge, and the battery gets low, the engine comes on only to charge the battery.

 

[dataguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Volt

 

[wallymn]

big deal, The genesis gets 430 miles to the gallon,
(As long as you start with a full tank and only count fuel you have to add).

 

[wallymn]

It's a joke. Do they really think the public is that stupid?

Why not cost per mile? Set a rate for gas and electricity and then present the cost per mile.

 

[dataguy]

"Even if the Volt's fuel savings could possibly be as dramatic as today's numbers suggest, the expected purchase price will be much higher than that of existing hybrids, and it will take years to pay off its price premium," notes Edmunds.com senior analyst Jessica Caldwell.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/11/autos/volt_mpg/?postversion=2009081108

 

[TJPark01]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/11/autos/volt_mpg/?postversion=2009081108

I hope I'm wrong, I would like to see Detroit get back to the glory days, but this car is F-ing stupid. It's 40k, ok, but let me guess the one you want is actually about 50k. Who the hell can pay that much for a car, not most people, which will make it a low production, showcase car. One of the main reasons the Prius is such a success is that it is ACCESSIBLE to the general public. Change the "Volt" to a "Dolt".

 

[SterlingDave]

It's a joke. Do they really think the public is that stupid?

TJ, no, they don't think that.....they KNOW the public is that stupid!

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[MattG]

I hope I'm wrong, I would like to see Detroit get back to the glory days, but this car is F-ing stupid. It's 40k, ok, but let me guess the one you want is actually about 50k. Who the hell can pay that much for a car, not most people, which will make it a low production, showcase car. One of the main reasons the Prius is such a success is that it is ACCESSIBLE to the general public. Change the "Volt" to a "Dolt".

You pretty much nailed it. I think that Tesla has the right idea (although I might quibble with them about the exact numbers) in the sense that they start with cars that are never intended for the mass market, and work their way down.

20K to 30K is the magic range for family sedans (of course options will always exist to make any car more expensive).

"Green" is currently a big deal marketing-wise, and I do think that there is a worthwhile conversation to be had about sustainability in the general sense, but to bust out some pseudo economist speak, people have limited elasticity to price when it comes to big ticket items. There are regional differences to be sure (I live near Berkeley, and every other car is a Pious, er, Prius) but in general people are probably willing to pay somewhere between 15% and 25% more for a vehicle that is perceived as being much more green (like a hybrid), and that's about it.

External factors (cost of gas for instance) will impact consumer choices, of course, but there again, the Volt is a loser. People who would have bought a large full size sedan, for instance, might opt for a Camry Hybrid, or even a Prius - sacrificing size for efficiency while keeping the price at a similar level (or even reducing it). These factors are unlikely, however, to make the person buy a more expensive car than they would have bought initially.

Instead of trying to leapfrog everybody, and building a car that is twice as expensive as it should be, they should take the Malibu Hybrid, give it a better transmission, and create a plug in version of it with better (and more) batteries so that it can go 30+ miles before it needs to turn on the engine. That car would be a winner, and would be at a price that would be (more or less) broadly accessible.

Just my .02.

 

[Poopsicle]

LMAO!! The EPA are just a bunch of tree hugging morons in my opinion. How can something that uses NO Gallons of anything have an MPG rating of something.

I get the comparison equivalent between the energy in a gallon of gas etc.. but instead of trying to compare Apples to Underwear, why don't they just start using a measurement that can be compared between ALL electric propulsion systems. That way the consumer can see real numbers instead of fictitious ones.

Maybe something like MBC (Miles Between Charge)

I like tree-huggin "morons". I like to breath fresh air once in a while.....Just look at the air in Beijing, China.. they don't really have an EPA.

 

[TJPark01]

I like tree-huggin "morons". I like to breath fresh air once in a while.....Just look at the air in Beijing, China.. they don't really have an EPA.

EPA Applauds GM Effort, but Says It Cannot Confirm Volt's Claimed 230 MPG

In response to a request from Green Car Advisor seeking clarification and confirmation of General Motors' claim that the Chevrolet Volt extended-range hybrid achieves 230 miles per gallon in city driving using tentative EPA test technology, the agency issued the following statement:
Read more...

 

[JOwest]

I hope for the sake of GM the 230mpg figure is accurate and realistic. If the production model don't come any close to that figure GM will be in big s--- again.

 

[TJPark01]

I hope for the sake of GM the 230mpg figure is accurate and realistic. If the production model don't come any close to that figure GM will be in big s--- again.

This thing is gonna go one of two ways. Either it will be a revolution of an existing idea (Iphone)....Or a turd sandwich (Zune).

 

[JOwest]

Maybe GM opened its mouth too soon? Nissan annouce today its own electric car the "Leaf" will get 367mpg! Unlike the Volt's estimated price of $40,000, Nissan said the Leaf will be affordable at about $25,000.

 

[dataguy]

Maybe GM opened its mouth too soon? Nissan annouce today its own electric car the "Leaf" will get 367mpg! Unlike the Volt's estimated price of $40,000, Nissan said the Leaf will be affordable at about $25,000.

In case anyone hasn't seen the Leaf:
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/

 

[TJPark01]

Audi president labels Chevrolet Volt as a car for “idiots”
The upcoming Chevrolet Volt may promise a 230 mpg city rating, but not everyone in the automotive community is convinced the buying public is ready for a $40,000 electric car. Not surprisingly, Audi president Johan de Nysschen – an avid diesel supporter – is dubious of the Volt, even going as far as to call it a “car for idiots”.
de Nysschen’s biggest gripe with the Volt is its estimated $40,000 price tag. Although that price competes with mid-size luxury sedans, de Nysschen points out that the car itself is more in line with $25,000 competition. As such, the Volt might struggle to find buyers.
“No one is going to pay a $15,000 premium for a car that competes with a (Toyota) Corolla,” de Nysschen told MSN. “So there are not enough idiots who will buy it.”
de Nysschen admits plug-in hybrids have an advantage over diesel in stop-and-go driving, but feels the majority of hybrid buyers are still trying to make a statement. “They’re for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are,” he added.
Although Audi has some hybrid vehicles on the way, the German automaker will rely heavily on its diesel technology to increase fuel economy and reduce overall emissions. Compared to standard gas engines, Audi’s diesel consume 25 percent less fuel and emit up to 35 percent fewer Co2 emissions – all while saving costs over a typical hybrid system.
In the end, de Nysschen predicts the Volt will be a sales flop, with the government intervening – once again – to keep the program afloat.

 

[GripperDon]

I traded in my 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid on the Genesis. As an actual owner of a Hybrid I feel confident in making these comments about this car.

1. In the city (Scottsdale AZ) my mileage for the two years was 23.5 mpg
2. I drive conservatively.
3. The weather is hot here and the Air Conditioner kills about 25 to 20% on the mileage.
4. Car ran like a champ.
5. Good Sound system but, nowhere near the excellence of the Lexicon.
6. The car was the most spacious of the car hybrids.
7. Rode and drove better than the Camry or the Genesis.
8. Good Nav system
9. Bluetooth worked well.
10 Cost me $36K all costs for an all possible options car, got $16K on trade in.
11. Nice paint.
12. Bland interior (leather seats)
13. Acceptable in rear seating but not plentiful
14. Very small trunk.
15. Too much trouble to get the mileage I got. which I thought was poor.
16. Mpg rating must have been tested on the Moon. Other I know didn't do any better in same circumstances, but everyone wanted to fudge higher numbers.

 

[TJPark01]

I traded in my 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid on the Genesis. As an actual owner of a Hybrid I feel confident in making these comments about this car.

Top Gear tested an M3 vs. a Prius, in a spirited drive around their track 10 times. Guess which got better gas mileage around a track...

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