What tyre pressures do you use?

[nickpike]

Hi, I've found over the last few years, especially running my Sonata for the last nine years with no problems whatsoever, that if I use the recommended tyre pressures, the edges of the tyre tread scuff away while there is still 4mm of tread remaining across the flat face. Lately, I've been running about 3psi higher and get a much more even wear across the tread and the tread edges.
I'm wondering if this may be a good idea on the Genesis set-up?

On my Sonata, being front wheel drive, the front tyres wore away after about 2 years, whilst the rear tyres still had 6mm of tread when I decided to replace them at about 7 years. Being a proper car with rear wheel drive , how do the Genesis tyres wear? Is it more or less even across all 4 tyres, so they tend to all need changing at the same time?

 

[kn5owa]

On my Sonata, being front wheel drive, the front tyres wore away after about 2 years, whilst the rear tyres still had 6mm of tread when I decided to replace them at about 7 years.

How often did you rotate them?

 

[Midnightsun]

The same tire will be inflated to different values depending on the application. If you want the best for your car in terms of wear and tear and optimum handling, follow what is written on the door jamb. In my case on the 5.0 it is 35psi all around and this is what I use.

FYI, with staggered directional tires like on the 5.0 you cannot rotate tires even if you wanted to unless you unmount, re-mount, rebalance but this would only work from right to left at the dimensions are different front to back.

 

[Rloyola0426]

Does the door jamb recommended psi still apply if you are on aftermarket wheels with a different size tire? I always wondered what I should be inflating my tires too. I've been using the values on the door jamb but they are for a different size tire.

 

[Mark_888]

Like most RWD cars, the Genesis tires wear fairly evenly (front to rear), but it is very important to rotate them about every 7500 miles so that the tread on each tire wears evenly. Adding about 2 psi over the recommended pressure on the sticker in the drivers door jam is certainly OK, and probably a good idea for most people.

 

[kn5owa]

Like most RWD cars, the Genesis tires wear fairly evenly (front to rear), but it is very important to rotate them about every 7500 miles so that the tread on each tire wears evenly. Adding about 2 psi over the recommended pressure on the sticker in the drivers door jam is certainly OK, and probably a good idea for most people.

One small problem being that the 2G V8 has different sizes front and rear.

 

[Mark_888]

One small problem being that the 2G V8 has different sizes front and rear.

Rotate them right and left. I don't think they are directional tires.

 

[kn5owa]

Rotate them right and left. I don't think they are directional tires.

But why?

 

[Mark_888]

But why?

To ensure even tread wear on each tire. This was a very big problem on the early 1G Genesis, but I think it is a good idea for any car. Of course, I don't have to pay for rotations since I bought my tires at Costco.

 

[kn5owa]

To ensure even tread wear on each tire. This was a very big problem on the early 1G Genesis, but I think it is a good idea for any car. Of course, I don't have to pay for rotations since I bought my tires at Costco.

Left/Right wear was a very big problem?

If I ever experienced that problem - which I have never had in 60+ yrs of driving - I would want to know what was wrong with the car first, before I even considered doing a left-right rotation.

*** Costco - lost big on a lawsuit ($4M) a few years ago after they did a tire rotation and some fool went out and crashed his car - Now, they are very prissy about honoring their aftermarket service "warranty", including tire rotations.

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[Mark_888]

Left/Right wear was a very big problem?

If I ever experienced that problem - which I have never had in 60+ yrs of driving - I would want to know what was wrong with the car first, before I even considered doing a left-right rotation.

*** Costco - lost big on a lawsuit ($4M) a few years ago after they did a tire rotation and some fool went out and crashed his car - Now, they are very prissy about honoring their aftermarket service "warranty", including tire rotations.

I mean that on the early Genesis model years, the tires did not wear evenly, and the outside of the tire may wear faster than the inside. I believe that most people had that problem with the OEM Dunlap tires.

My suspicion is that Hyundai had too much toe-in to make the steering more responsive during test drives, but pretty much ruined the tires in short order. Along with the tire wear problem, there were many complaints about pulling to the left or right. All of those threads are still on this forum.

After I got new tires at about 20K miles, I had an alignment done by a suspension shop recommended by Costco. They start with the factory specs, but then do multiple test drives and adjustments until the car steers straight. Since then, I have not had a problems, but I do get a tire rotation every 7500 miles.

I think that the legal problem you mentioned that Costco and other retailers have had, is when they rotate tires, and as a result the tires in the rear have less tread than then front. This happens more on FWD. Experts claim that the rear tires should always have more tread than the front tires (if they are unequal) to maintain proper handling. When someone loses control of their car and gets into an accident, that has been the basis of a lot of lawsuits having to do with rotations, and also when customers only purchase 2 new tires. Probably 99% of those lawsuits are bogus and had nothing to do with the tire rotations, but you know how lawsuits go.

On a Genesis (and most RWD cars) the tires usually wear evenly front and rear, so they have never said anything to me about the tire rotations that I have done every 7500 miles (I have had about 5 rotatons done for free so far on my Michelin Primacy tires that I purchased at Costco). But if a rotation would result in less tread on the rear tires, I assume they would not do it, and maybe only rotate left and right.

 

[kn5owa]

Mark: Two points

1. Absent any obvious left/right wear problem, I will simply replace all four tires on my 2G/V8 rather than undertake any left/right rotation. I don't put that much mileage on the car anyway, and I have always been conservative about replacing tires, anyway.

2. The litigation thing is a little more complicated. What happened is that Costco, Walmart, and Michelin all got hit about the same time with multi-million dollar lawsuits after doing tire service. The facts are that the drivers all got in serious wrecks afterwards, and then sued those companies, and got huge dollar verdicts from sympathetic juries. You don't hear about these things much because of gag orders,etc.

I first found out about this when I took my Sonata to Costco for a tire rotation. They simply handed me a computer print-out and said they wouldn't do the job. Facts are: the front tires were slightly more worn - but no big deal. So, I took the car to a local garage which also does the state inspections. Same opinion there, they saw nothing wrong with the tires and rotated them for a small fee.

I recently bought new tires from Costco, and the current bill of sale that they use actually has the mileage printed on it when you HAVE to come back for rotation.

So: Bottom Line - isn't life under lawyers wonderful?

 

[Mark_888]

Mark: Two points

1. Absent any obvious left/right wear problem, I will simply replace all four tires on my 2G/V8 rather than undertake any left/right rotation. I don't put that much mileage on the car anyway, and I have always been conservative about replacing tires, anyway.

2. The litigation thing is a little more complicated. What happened is that Costco, Walmart, and Michelin all got hit about the same time with multi-million dollar lawsuits after doing tire service. The facts are that the drivers all got in serious wrecks afterwards, and then sued those companies, and got huge dollar verdicts from sympathetic juries. You don't hear about these things much because of gag orders,etc.

I first found out about this when I took my Sonata to Costco for a tire rotation. They simply handed me a computer print-out and said they wouldn't do the job. Facts are: the front tires were slightly more worn - but no big deal. So, I took the car to a local garage which also does the state inspections. Same opinion there, they saw nothing wrong with the tires and rotated them for a small fee.

I recently bought new tires from Costco, and the current bill of sale that they use actually has the mileage printed on it when you HAVE to come back for rotation.

So: Bottom Line - isn't life under lawyers wonderful?

I am not sure why you say the litigation "is a little more complicated." My understanding is that it has to with making sure that after a rotation, or after buying 2 new tires, the rear tread depth is at least the same as (or greater than) the front tread depth, as I explained before.

I agree that people who lose control of their car and get in an accident are suing the tire installation companies, even when the tires or tread depth difference between front and rear had nothing to do with the accidents. Every personal injury lawyer in the USA knows about this issue (have less tread depth on the rear), and knows who the "expert witnesses" are to get an easy judgment in their favor.

One of the main "principles" of personal injury law (ambulance chasers) is to sue anyone with deep pockets, even if they may only be tangentially related to the case, not necessarily only those who are really responsible for the injury. So if a plane crashes due to pilot error, they will sue the airline and the plane manufacturer. They will likely not bother with suing a small independent shop, because a judgment would like not result in much money actually changing hands, as it would likely result in bankruptcy of the business.

Civil cases in most state courts do not require a unanimous verdict. Sometimes only a simple majority is required for judgment, sometimes it is 2/3 majority, and sometimes it depends on the size of the judgment. So it is much easier to get a verdict in a civil case compared to a criminal case.

 

[Midnightsun]

The more important rotation on our Genesis is from left to right as the front to rear weight ratio is rather close at 48/52. Fortunately this is not an issue on the V8 as the Hankooks and even the replacement Continentals are bi-directional. In my neck of the woods, nobody rotates at oil changes or certain milages. This is always done when installing summer/winter tires (which is mandatory for all wheels by the way) so basically it happens once a year regardless of milage however the summers are only used for 6-7 months of the year.

I must say the Hankooks are wearing extremely well and have plenty of tread life left. In comparison, both my gen 1's were really bad on tires. The original Dunlops were just plain crap but I did have Michelins and Bridgestone Serenitys on them at a later date and they wore at a much greater rate than normal.

 

[kn5owa]

I am not sure why you say the litigation "is a little more complicated." My understanding is that it has to with making sure that after a rotation, or after buying 2 new tires, the rear tread depth is at least the same as (or greater than) the front tread depth, as I explained before.

In the cases that I referenced - including Costco - the wrecks that ensued after servicing were a bloody mess - including people who lost limbs etc. The verdicts that resulted had nothing to do with technical details like tread depth. The juries simply put two and two together and soaked the big companies.

Lawsuits like this are rarely publicized - but they ultimately filter down to the treatment that Joe Customer gets - and this is particularly true at Costco.

 

[Mark_888]

In the cases that I referenced - including Costco - the wrecks that ensued after servicing were a bloody mess - including people who lost limbs etc. The verdicts that resulted had nothing to do with technical details like tread depth. The juries simply put two and two together and soaked the big companies.

Lawsuits like this are rarely publicized - but they ultimately filter down to the treatment that Joe Customer gets - and this is particularly true at Costco.

I am not sure which exact lawsuits you are talking about, but all the ones I am aware of are when either:

• a rotation takes place, or
• only 2 new tires are put on

and the result is that the rear has less tread depth than the front. That does not mean that any of the tires are close to being worn out, in fact the tires can be almost new so long as there is a difference between front and rear tread depth (the rears must have the deeper tread remaining to be safe according experts).

If the verdicts are not based on tread depth (different front and rear), then what are they based on?

 

[kn5owa]

If the verdicts are not based on tread depth (different front and rear), then what are they based on?

I thought I made it clear: There was lots of gore involved - people killed or seriously injured for life - And their own fault - as I recall. I researched the issue some time ago after Costco wouldn't rotate my tires and would only explain their action with a computer print-out with some boiler-plate on it.

What were the verdicts based on?

Jury verdicts don't have to be based on anything or explained in any manner whatsoever. In fact, jurors are frequently chastised for doing so, although they can discuss verdicts under the 1st. amendt. if they wish. They were based simply on the knowledge that the defendant companies could pay and they wanted to compensate the parties involved in the "accidents".

This is precisely the sort of discussion that occurred in a personal injury jury trial that I served on. And, there was extensive discussion of insurance although this is supposed to be strictly verboten.

 

[Mark_888]

I thought I made it clear: There was lots of gore involved - people killed or seriously injured for life - And their own fault - as I recall. I researched the issue some time ago after Costco wouldn't rotate my tires and would only explain their action with a computer print-out with some boiler-plate on it.

What were the verdicts based on?

Jury verdicts don't have to be based on anything or explained in any manner whatsoever. In fact, jurors are frequently chastised for doing so, although they can discuss verdicts under the 1st. amendt. if they wish. They were based simply on the knowledge that the defendant companies could pay and they wanted to compensate the parties involved in the "accidents".

This is precisely the sort of discussion that occurred in a personal injury jury trial that I served on. And, there was extensive discussion of insurance although this is supposed to be strictly verboten.

Any case that goes to trail and has a verdict is public record as to the plaintiff's case against the defendant. You seem to be saying that simply because people died in a car wreck, it is OK to sue the tire installer? There has to be some basis for suing the tire installer in the complaint (although I am not saying that the basis is necessarily valid).

But I am not speculating what the jury verdict was based on, only what the complaint was based on. Juries sometimes do whatever they want.

My understanding is that these complaints are based on the situation I described above, after a tire rotation, of having more tread on the front, than the rear. Experts say this is bad, hence the lawsuits if there is an accident with such as car (and there is a lot of blood and gore, etc).

If Costco showed you a computer print out as to why they could not rotate your tires, it was probably that on your car the rotation would put more tread on the front than the rear. I have never had a problem getting a tire rotation from Costco, even quite recently.

 

[kn5owa]

Any case that goes to trail and has a verdict is public record as to the plaintiff's case against the defendant. You seem to be saying that simply because people died in a car wreck, it is OK to sue the tire installer? There has to be some basis for suing the tire installer in the complaint (although I am not saying that the basis is necessarily valid).

But I am not speculating what the jury verdict was based on, only what the complaint was based on. Juries sometimes do whatever they want.

My understanding is that these complaints are based on the situation I described above, after a tire rotation, of having more tread on the front, than the rear. Experts say this is bad, hence the lawsuits if there is an accident with such as car (and there is a lot of blood and gore, etc).

If Costco showed you a computer print out as to why they could not rotate your tires, it was probably that on your car the rotation would put more tread on the front than the rear. I have never had a problem getting a tire rotation from Costco, even quite recently.

I certainly did not say it was OK to sue anybody anytime for any reason. But, it certainly happens.

Of course, the complaint has to state a prima facie case - otherwise, it can be dismissed.

Back to juries again: Juries don't do "sometimes" what they wish to do. They do it anytime and all the time - and most definitely in injury cases.

And back to Costco: Of course, there would be more tread on the front after rotation - that's precisely why I wanted the work done. Costco's current procedure is to stipulate on the bill of sale the exact odometer mileage when you have to bring the car in for rotation. And, this will probably change again.

An interesting footnote on juries: They can and do decide patent cases of an unbelievably complex nature when a party asks for a jury trial. Apple does this all the time. And there is no pretense that the jury will understand the subject matter. Apple simply expects a verdict because we all know and love Apple. Right? It shows just just how wacky jury trials can get.

Been there, got the T-shirt, etc.

 

[lobsenza]

Left/right rotation on the V8 helps promote even tire wear. I rotated mine at 5k and will rotate them again at 10k.