Would you buy a used V8 Ultimate out of warranty?

[ThoughtfulOne]

I'm thinking about whether I should pull the trigger at this point. I've narrowed my choices at this point to 2 used cars.

A 2015 Toyota Avalon Limited
- About 65,000 km (40,000 miles)
- Extended warranty to 2022, and I believe 200,000 km (about 120,000 miles), which I think is bumper to bumper

A 2015 Genesis V8 HTRAC Ultimate (this is Canada so the V8 is HTRAC)
- About 93,500 km, and the dealer claims mostly highway mileage
- Works out to about 6,500 km (4,000 miles) of factory warranty left
- Extended warranty is available, but only third party - I'm iffy about that because often third party warranties don't cover everything, despite the "bumper to bumper" claims. I'm not sure I can get a Hyundai extended warranty. I have heard of plenty of people with negative third party warranty experiences (they often use low cost parts and in some cases, people have been thrown under the bus. There are plenty of websites saying only to get manufacturer's extended warranties now (an example: https://www.consumerreports.org/shopping/dont-buy-extended-warranties/)

Pricing is within 15% of each other. I would pay for cash regardless and not be in debt. The Avalon tends to hold its value, which is why they are close, despite the difference in selling price. Neither car has been in an accident. The Genesis is a lease return and according to the dealer, the person returned the 2015 Genesis and got a G80. The Toyota Avalon was turned in according to the dealer because the original owner had bad back problems.

My big concern with the V8 Genesis Ultimate is if something (worse case scenario the radio or powertrain) die in the future. The powertrain seem to be fairly reliable on these cars, so I guess the biggest concern seems to be the electronics. TrueDelta says that the Genesis is about average in reliability:
https://www.truedelta.com/Hyundai-Genesis/reliability-777

The Avalon of course tends to be among the best cars:
https://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Avalon/reliability-263

Interestingly enough, Mike Karesh himself states: https://www.truedelta.com/Hyundai-Genesis/pros-and-cons-M200

A few dozen members have now had a 2015 Genesis for a year or more, and the great majority of their cars didn't require a single repair last year. This is very good for a luxury sedan in its first model year. Granted, Audis tend to be about equally reliable during their first few years, then worsen. It's still too early to say how reliable the new Genesis will be when four-plus years old. But even if it has more problems when older, repairs are likely to be simpler and much less expensive than they tend to be for an Audi. So I'm comfortable listing reliability among the reasons to buy a Genesis.

I want to keep this car to around 2025 (and maybe pass onto family in the early 2020s, who will keep it to the mid 2020s) and put quite a few highway miles on it during that time.

Among the cars, it looks like the Avalon tends to be the most likely to last 200,000 miles (320,000 km): https://jalopnik.com/these-are-the-cars-that-are-most-likely-to-go-over-200-1793819071



The others are all SUVs and trucks. I do have the disposable income to afford the cost of repairs, but I am not 100% sure I'd want to spend high mileage German-car like prices for them. That's my big worry with the Genesis.

The one nagging issue is that the Genesis is a far better car than the Avalon. Statistically, do you think it is worth the risk or is there too much on the V8 Genesis Ultimate that could go wrong (especially the electronics)?

 

[jarred52]

I had a new 2014 Avalon. The seats were so hard and uncomfortable that I traded it in on a '15 Genesis 3.8. If you are seriously considering the Avalon, be sure to give the seats a good try before you buy. I knew that they were hard but thought I would get used to them; wrong; I hated them more every day. Otherwise, I liked the car.

 

[jimmy buoy]

No problems with my 15 AWD 5.0, but it only has about 40,000 KM. I really don't think highway miles will create much worry for you. You are right about the cost of repairs not covered by warranty though. If something goes wrong with either car it's going to be expensive. Just the nature of todays more advanced cars. My buddy got a great deal on a 2009 V6 Genesis which now has an issue - when he puts on the turn signal at night the main headlights go off. The dealer says a short in the signal wiring means the module has to be replaced @$500 + labor. OUCH.

I don't know where you drive, but the combination of the V8 + AWD is always surefooted. I'd prefer it over any FWD vehicle.

 

[ThoughtfulOne]

I had a new 2014 Avalon. The seats were so hard and uncomfortable that I traded it in on a '15 Genesis 3.8. If you are seriously considering the Avalon, be sure to give the seats a good try before you buy. I knew that they were hard but thought I would get used to them; wrong; I hated them more every day. Otherwise, I liked the car.

Yeah I test drove them one after another on the same day.

The Genesis largely puts the Avalon to shame on pretty much everything. Comfort, acceleration, isolation, handling, etc. The only thing the Avalon has going for it is reliability and fuel consumption.

No problems with my 15 AWD 5.0, but it only has about 40,000 KM. I really don't think highway miles will create much worry for you. You are right about the cost of repairs not covered by warranty though. If something goes wrong with either car it's going to be expensive. Just the nature of todays more advanced cars. My buddy got a great deal on a 2009 V6 Genesis which now has an issue - when he puts on the turn signal at night the main headlights go off. The dealer says a short in the signal wiring means the module has to be replaced @$500 + labor. OUCH.

I don't know where you drive, but the combination of the V8 + AWD is always surefooted. I'd prefer it over any FWD vehicle.

I live in Waterloo, ON.

Will be driving in Southern and Eastern Ontario (Ottawa - will do lots of Highway 401 / 416 time - the Ontario 400s are roughly our equal to a US interstate for Americans). Most of the mileage will likely be highway (401 likely to Toronto, Ottawa, London, and possibly on TransCanada in Northern Ontario along with maybe the northern US), with some in city of Waterloo. There will be some rural driving in Ontario and visiting places like Stratford, ON.



I just had a colleague at work who had to do expensive repairs on their Toyota Sienna. Will ask him at work when I get the chance (he's had a busy few days so I haven't seen him much at work on the other side of the building we work at). It's not that repairs on the Toyota are impossible - it's that they have a solid reputation so you are less likely to have issues. Not to mention, the extended warranty helps.

 

[dougmcp]

I really like my Genesis but with the parameters you have stated, hands down on the Avalon.

 

[lobsenza]

I would not consider a FWD vehicle in Canada, only AWD. I have a 2015 Genesis V8 and have only had a few minor problems. I only have 24,000 miles. I would definitely pick the Genesis over the Avalon. My parnets have an Avalon and it is an OK car. But it does not compare to the Genesis in my opinion and AWD is a significant factor in Canada.

 

[ThoughtfulOne]

I really like my Genesis but with the parameters you have stated, hands down on the Avalon.

Is that due to the electronics?

I would not consider a FWD vehicle in Canada, only AWD. I have a 2015 Genesis V8 and have only had a few minor problems. I only have 24,000 miles. I would definitely pick the Genesis over the Avalon. My parnets have an Avalon and it is an OK car. But it does not compare to the Genesis in my opinion and AWD is a significant factor in Canada.

All Genesis in Canada after 2015 are AWD.



Note the 5.0 HTRAC at the back.

 

[lobsenza]

My mistake, I misread the post.