Sign up to remove ads. We'd love to have you amongst our ranks! Just click the Register button below!

genesis motors forum   genesis motors forums

Direct Links: Genesis Motors Brand | Genesis G70 | Genesis G80 | Genesis G90 | Genesis Sedan | Genesis Coupe | Equus
Genesis Forum: Oil Change 2017 G80
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11
    Mark_888 is offline Registered Member What I drive: 1G Genesis 3.8 V6 Sedan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,568
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Members don't see this ad
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackthelad View Post
    Results from the Mobil 1 product selector, BTW: "Based on what you've told us, your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 5W-30 viscosity and oil that meets ACEA A5/B5. We currently do not offer any motor oils in the United States that meet these specifications"
    LOL !

    That is a computer program talking. It's called a "design bust," and all software has some kind of bug or design flaw.

    I am telling you flat out (which anyone who can read can see for themselves) that A1/B1 and A5/B5 have the exact same specifications (viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s) if the oil is 5W-30. It's only a problem if the oil is 5W-20 or below. So Mobil 1 5W-30 is fine, and actually exceed manufacturer specs by a wide margin.


  2. #12
    Jackthelad is offline Hasn't posted much yet... What I drive: Genesis G80
    I live in West Virginia
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    It's certainly a bit odd that they would have (per the owner's handbook) a Euro spec (ACEA) requirement for the V6, but an SAE spec requirement for the V8. From reading the ACEA specs in detail, my take is as long as it hits A1/B1 you are OK - the A5/B5 spec adds support for the typical small diesels found extensively in Europe - or here in VW's once upon a time .......

    But to meet the A1/B1 spec, it seems like it has to be a synthetic, but not all synthetics meet this spec. As an example, only certain viscosities of Mobil 1 meet the spec. I use M1 as an example, as that's the syn I have most experience with. I even run my full size pick up truck on it, and had covered 90k +/- using it in a fairly hard driven turbo Subaru with no issues at all. Spent a lot of money on oil at Walmart and Costco tho', as you do not want to push the change interval on a turbo, which really beats on the engine oil.

    BTW, a bit of digging shows Amsoil's synthetic is also A5/B5 rated. That's two I have found.

  3. #13
    Mark_888 is offline Registered Member What I drive: 1G Genesis 3.8 V6 Sedan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,568
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackthelad View Post
    It's certainly a bit odd that they would have (per the owner's handbook) a Euro spec (ACEA) requirement for the V6, but an SAE spec requirement for the V8. From reading the ACEA specs in detail, my take is as long as it hits A1/B1 you are OK - the A5/B5 spec adds support for the typical small diesels found extensively in Europe - or here in VW's once upon a time .......
    The A5/B5 is not required for the V8, because they specify 5W-20 (although I would use 5W-30 if I had a Genesis V8).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackthelad View Post
    But to meet the A1/B1 spec, it seems like it has to be a synthetic, but not all synthetics meet this spec. As an example, only certain viscosities of Mobil 1 meet the spec. I use M1 as an example, as that's the syn I have most experience with. I even run my full size pick up truck on it, and had covered 90k +/- using it in a fairly hard driven turbo Subaru with no issues at all. Spent a lot of money on on oil at Walmart and Costco tho', as you do not want to push the change interval on a turbo, which really beats on the engine oil.

    BTW, a bit of digging shows Amsoil's synthetic is also A5/B5 rated. That's two I have found.
    Which Amsoil oil are you talking about? They make 3 different types, with widely varying quality and prices. The most expensive one, with the better synthetic base stocks, is not API certified and does not meet all Hyundai or Genesis specs, and Hyundai or Genesis has the right to question that if there is an oil related engine failure.

  4. #14
    dougmcp's Avatar
    dougmcp is offline Been here awhile... What I drive: 1G Genesis Sedan
    I live in Plumas Lake, CALIFORNIA
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    327
    Rep Power
    1

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Oil these days is so confusing but I guess with fuel economy and the environment it's only going to get worse.
    As of Dec 2016 ACEA has removed A1/B1 from it's classifications.
    Whether Mobil will pursue A5/B5 classification is anyone's guess but currently they do not have approvals and ACEA tells A1/B1 searchers to refer to their owners manual for correct oil.
    Here is a chart published by Mobil
    https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf
    Here is the ACEA spec for 2016:
    http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_docu...ences_2016.pdf

  5. #15
    Jackthelad is offline Hasn't posted much yet... What I drive: Genesis G80
    I live in West Virginia
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    For a discussion of the differences between A1/B1 and A5/B5, this is an interesting site.

    http://www.lubrizol.com/en/Lubricant...s/ACEA-A5B5-10

    Amsoil: use their product selector for a 2017 G80 and you arrive at Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil.

    Now, what on earth were Hyundai/Genesis thinking specifying a high end diesel focused Euro spec for the 3.8? First, it looks like the 3.8 is the only engine Genesis offers on the G80 in Europe, where that spec is in common use. Apart from that it's nuts. All they had to do was what Chevy did with the LS series engines - require a full synthetic, with the clear understanding that if you choose to use dino oil and fry your engine, they will deny any warranty claim.

    My issue with Genesis is that if they applied the same strategy, and denied any engine claims where, on analysis, the oil did not meet their specs, where their specs call for lubes that I bet their dealers do not have, we are all toast.

    Me? I think they are nuts. They should just specify full synthetic and be done.

    BTW, Mobil 1 used to be A5/B5 compliant - I have a NOS gallon jug of 5-30 with A5/B5 written on it, whereas the new stuff only has A1/B1 on the containers. I can only assume with all the fiddling with the additive packages that has been going on of late to help the manufacturers with CAFE, it no longer complies.
    Last edited by Jackthelad; 05-19-2017 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #16
    Mark_888 is offline Registered Member What I drive: 1G Genesis 3.8 V6 Sedan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,568
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackthelad View Post
    Now, what on earth were Hyundai/Genesis thinking specifying a high end diesel focused Euro spec for the 3.8? First, it looks like the 3.8 is the only engine Genesis offers on the G80 in Europe, where that spec is in common use. Apart from that it's nuts. All they had to do was what Chevy did with the LS series engines - require a full synthetic, with the clear understanding that if you choose to use dino oil and fry your engine, they will deny any warranty claim.

    My issue with Genesis is that if they applied the same strategy, and denied any engine claims where, on analysis, the oil did not meet their specs, where their specs call for lubes that I bet their dealers do not have, we are all toast.

    Me? I think they are nuts. They should just specify full synthetic and be done.

    BTW, Mobil 1 used to be A5/B5 compliant - I have a NOS gallon jug of 5-30 with A5/B5 written on it, whereas the new stuff only has A1/B1 on the containers. I can only assume with all the fiddling with the additive packages that has been going on of late to help the manufacturers with CAFE, it no longer complies.
    I think some are making a lot of assumptions about Hyundai/Genesis Motors, and Exxon Mobil as to what their motives are for their specifications. In some cases it may be just incompetence, and in others it may be not wanting to bother with the cost of European Certification when that oil is not sold in Europe (Mobil 1 European Formula motor oils are different formulations due to their governments not allowing a Group III base stock to be called synthetic and because they have different amounts of anti-friction additives due to European environmental laws.

    The idea that Hyundai or Genesis Motors would deny a warranty claim for a customer using a 5W-30 or 0W-30 Mobil 1 product in the 3.8L V6 is so ridiculously absurd that it boggles the mind (although I would not use the Mobil 1 or any other High Mileage version since it can cause problems to engine seals if you ever stop using it).

  7. #17
    Mark_888 is offline Registered Member What I drive: 1G Genesis 3.8 V6 Sedan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,568
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackthelad View Post
    For a discussion of the differences between A1/B1 and A5/B5, this is an interesting site.

    http://www.lubrizol.com/en/Lubricant...s/ACEA-A5B5-10
    As already discussed, ACEA is a European Specification for motor oil.

    As most people know, Hyundai (and Genesis Motors) recommends Quaker State Motor oil in the US (QS and Pennzoil are owned by Shell Oil Products USA, and not generally marketed in Europe, where they sell Shell branded products instead). Hyundai Motors has a worldwide marketing agreement with Royal Dutch Shell regarding lubricants (although dealers are independent business). I checked the Quaker State website, and every one of the 5W-30 motor oils I saw (conventional, synthetic blend, and synthetic) has "N/A" next to the ACEA certification level in their spec sheets.

    I checked the Mobil 1 website against the individual specs for ACEA A5/B5, and their 5W-30 motor oils meet all of them, except for Evaporative Loss (Noack), but only because Mobil 1 does not report that number. From reading about tests and comparisons of various synthetic motor oils, I have never seen any complaints about Evaporative Loss using Mobil 1.

    What I find amusing, is that some, who believe that a conventional motor oil (ie, not synthetic) is fine and a synthetic is a waste of money, may be speculating about whether people who use Mobil 1 5W-30 (a full synthetic) will have their warranty denied due to lack of ACEA A5/B5 certification, when conventional oil is so much inferior to any synthetic that it is not even funny.

    Also, please don't ask you dealer service advisor about this. They are not motor oil chemists or engineers, and are just regular people who are trying get all the repairs done that day without their customers biting their heads off, and they will think you are psycho if you start asking questions about ACEA certification (but they will try and be polite about it).
    Last edited by Mark_888; 05-20-2017 at 03:13 PM.

  8. #18
    kn5owa is offline Supporting Member What I drive: 2G Genesis 5.0 V8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,166
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_888 View Post

    The idea that Hyundai or Genesis Motors would deny a warranty claim for a customer using a 5W-30 or 0W-30 Mobil 1 product in the 3.8L V6 is so ridiculously absurd that it boggles the mind (although I would not use the Mobil 1 or any other High Mileage version since it can cause problems to engine seals if you ever stop using it).
    I started using Mobil 1 as soon as it became available in the Mid - 70's - there were all sorts of vague warnings back then that using Mobil 1 - or any synthetic - would destroy your "seals" plus your warranty. None were true, to my knowledge.

    It looks like you are resurrecting the old seal story on a new Mobil product - except kinda, in reverse.
    Drives '06 Sonata LX V6
    2015 Genesis 5.0 V8
    Montecito Blue

  9. #19
    Mark_888 is offline Registered Member What I drive: 1G Genesis 3.8 V6 Sedan
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,568
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Oil Change 2017 G80

    Members don't see this ad
    Quote Originally Posted by kn5owa View Post
    I started using Mobil 1 as soon as it became available in the Mid - 70's - there were all sorts of vague warnings back then that using Mobil 1 - or any synthetic - would destroy your "seals" plus your warranty. None were true, to my knowledge.

    It looks like you are resurrecting the old seal story on a new Mobil product - except kinda, in reverse.
    A very long time ago, there were some issues with some engine seals and synthetic motor oil. They have changed the additives in all synthetics, and changed seals also, so that is no longer a problem (and has not been a problem for many years now).

    As to the current situation, I was only talking about High Mileage oil (from any manufacturer, and not just synthetics). High Mileage oil should only be used on an engine that is using oil (or using too much oil), since it contains chemicals to swell the seals to prevent oil leaks. Do not ever switch to High Mileage oil just because your engine has 75K miles (as often indicated on the label). If High Mileage oil swells the seals to prevent leakage, and then you switch back to non-High Mileage oil, then one "may" encounter problems. Again, this has nothing to do with synthetics, and affects all High Mileage oil.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
MADISON ROSS MEDIA GROUP MARKETPLACE
Need products for your Hyundai Genesis? Check out these options below:


 

Check out what the competition is up to. The Kia Stinger is a large sport-oriented hatchback in the mold of the Audi A7.