Hyundai to sell 50,000 Genesis per year, Sonata hybrid coming in 2010

[bnhbutts]

Not a chance this happens now! They'd be lucky to sell 10,000. does anyone know how many they have sold this year?

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Not a chance this happens now! They'd be lucky to sell 10,000. does anyone know how many they have sold this year?

I think they've sold about 6000 so far this year.. I'm sure they'll get plenty more than 10,000 in a full 12 months. They may have figured the Coupe into that 50,000 prediction as well.. Still, nobody is selling near their expectations right now...

 

[mkaresh]

The 50,000 included the coupe. But this goal always seemed high to me. When it was announced I noted that Infiniti struggles to sell 20,000 of the award-winning M35/M45, which is about $10,000 more than the Genesis.

 

[Michael_S]

The 50,000 included the coupe. But this goal always seemed high to me. When it was announced I noted that Infiniti struggles to sell 20,000 of the award-winning M35/M45, which is about $10,000 more than the Genesis.

I think you're right, to a point. But the M35 and M45 compete against the very competent G35 (now G37), neither horsepower ratings nor fuel economy match the Genesis V6 or Genesis V8, respectively, the Genesis has notably more interior room, and $10,000 matters a lot to some people.

 

[mkaresh]

These things surely matter to some people, but apparently not enough of them.

I haven't checked the interior room specs. Subjectively they're similar. The M is roomier than other competitors.

The V6 horsepower ratings aren't much different. There's a bigger gap with the V8, but that's a smaller percentage of sales.

Then we have the brand name...

 

[gcarper]

Bring on the incentives and you can hit the goal Mr. Krafcik otherwise join the long list of former Hyundai USA CEO's. The lineup that didn't hit their sales plan were: Finbarr O'Neill, Bob Cosmai, Steve Wilhite, and Jon Eun Kim were not able to gain enough ground towards the brand's goal of selling 1 million units by 2010.

January will have to be an incentive month or they will only sell ~13,000 Sedans for 2009 - far short of their 20K goal. I would be sweating bullets if I were the sales lead... the Koreans have a habit of not tolerating commitments that are not met....

As a consumer I have explored this car ad nauseum and would buy one if it were priced more aggressively... V8 Tech only - OTD for $36K or lease for $429 a month with no cap acquisition fees on 15K per year. I would not consider the V6 due to the cheaper brakes, cheaper tranny, and advertising hype in comparision to the competition the has the V8 in fine print at the bottom... The V6 is a good car - but does not live up to the marketing hype in comparison to the list below.

Some disappointments that I have found after months of test driving this car;
No -Bi-Xenon Headlights - (hell my midtier VW Passat has Bi-Xenon headlights - for those who don't know what this means - flash your highbeams on one night and you will see what I mean)
Suspension is interesting - I can't say I dislike it -it just will take some getting used to.
Make the KOREAN GENESIS Logo the norm - not some cheesy mod that the owner needs to make.
Make the 10year 100,000 warranty cover the Tech package too - 3 year 36,000 does not compete with your competition
Add the passenger side cooled seat
Add power fold in mirrors for those of us that part in garages alot.
Add Shift paddles on the V8
Add dealers that have the ability to really negotiate.
Add a new market incentive manager that understands that the market is only getting worse and take what you can get now and get the car on the market.
Add aggressive incentives that will make the product manager's of BMW, MB, INF, LEX, AUDI, and Acura want to work for you!

This risk Hyundai is taking right now is a "pro-american" tariff happy new administration that is coming on line. Once 2 MIL former american suppliers lose thier jobs - you can bet that thier Senators are going to begin banging their Lobby arms on the hill to protect thier economic base - this could have a negative impact on Hyundai - even if they have a plant in Alabama.... the GENESIS isn't made in ALABAMA - but in Ulsan Korea....


GENESIS Sales YTD:

June: 30 Units
July: 619 Units
August: 1177 units
September: 1029 units – median monthly – will not achieve sales goal of 20,000 Sedans…..
October 1121 units
November : 1,151 units
Total YTD Sales 5,127 units (74% off target of 20,000 Sedan sales for 2009)

Also note the downward trend for BMW, MB, INF, LEX, AUDI, and Acura…. The numbers in bold are YTD and the Aug, Sept, Oct and Nov unit results… The Genesis is starting to hurt the Lexus GS sales…….. hence their $7000 incentive you can get with aggressive negotiation and their recent $599 Lease (AWD, NAV, GS350, 10K per year)


BMW 5-Series (14,595): 5,287 | 2,423 | 3,958 | 2,927
Mercedes E-Class (10,011): 2,681 | 2,968 | 2,098 | 2,264
Infiniti M (4,667): 1,211 | 1,077 | 1,193 | 1,186
Hyundai Genesis (4,478): 1,177 | 1,029 | 1,121 | 1,151
Lexus GS (4,203): 1,686 | 977 | 819 | 721
Audi A6/S6 (4,085): 1,520 | 1,090 | 758 | 717
Acura RL (1,081): 316 | 259 | 272 | 234

 

[musher51]

GENESIS Sales YTD:

June: 30 Units
July: 619 Units
August: 1177 units
September: 1029 units – median monthly – will not achieve sales goal of 20,000 Sedans…..
October 1121 units
November : 1,151 units
Total YTD Sales 5,127 units (74% off target of 20,000 Sedan sales for 2009)

A reasonable review/analysis, and I agree with several of the upgrades you recommend (e.g. bi-xenon). HOWEVER, I don't believe HMA was aiming to sell 20,000 sedans in calendar '08 given the mid-year release. You even cite 2009 as the target year in your monthly summary above. The '09 clock doesn't start ticking for ten more days.

The sales numbers over the last few months suggest that selling 20K sedans throughout CY09 is very do-able. And while I concede that assessing "value" is inherently subjective, I personally think Genesis pricing is damned reasonable as-is, so I don't agree that HMA is doomed without "incentive pricing". While new car sales will be depressed for ALL makes/models in '09 given the dismal economy, Genesis has already demonstrated that it'll hold it's own, even at current prices.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I still haven't seen a single dealership "showcasing" the Genesis on their lot...

 

[Wordman]

I still haven't seen a single dealership "showcasing" the Genesis on their lot...

Well, to be fair, when I got my Genesis from Douglas Hyundai Isuzu in Santa Ana, CA, in October, the cars immediately in front of the showroom building were all Genesis. Not exactly 'showcasing' but I'll give them a B for effort...

 

[mkaresh]

I don't think the Genesis is hurting the Lexus GS. Lexus GS sales have always been weak. Rather, August appears to have been an unusually good month for the car. Maybe that's when they ramped up the incentive on it?

I've always said that the Genesis would probably sell about as well as the Infiniti M. I hadn't realized how close sales of the two models have actually been. Almost identical.

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[ultra63]

The M45 has only 325 HP and is at least $14000 more than a V8 Gen. The M45 has a few more options such as AWD option and a nicer dealership experience than the Gen. I think the V8 Gen should still outsell the M45.

 

[DanTheMan]

Bring on the incentives and you can hit the goal Mr. Krafcik otherwise join the long list of former Hyundai USA CEO's. The lineup that didn't hit their sales plan were: Finbarr O'Neill, Bob Cosmai, Steve Wilhite, and Jon Eun Kim were not able to gain enough ground towards the brand's goal of selling 1 million units by 2010.

January will have to be an incentive month or they will only sell ~13,000 Sedans for 2009 - far short of their 20K goal. I would be sweating bullets if I were the sales lead... the Koreans have a habit of not tolerating commitments that are not met....

As a consumer I have explored this car ad nauseum and would buy one if it were priced more aggressively... V8 Tech only - OTD for $36K or lease for $429 a month with no cap acquisition fees on 15K per year. I would not consider the V6 due to the cheaper brakes, cheaper tranny, and advertising hype in comparision to the competition the has the V8 in fine print at the bottom... The V6 is a good car - but does not live up to the marketing hype in comparison to the list below.

Some disappointments that I have found after months of test driving this car;
No -Bi-Xenon Headlights - (hell my midtier VW Passat has Bi-Xenon headlights - for those who don't know what this means - flash your highbeams on one night and you will see what I mean)
Suspension is interesting - I can't say I dislike it -it just will take some getting used to.
Make the KOREAN GENESIS Logo the norm - not some cheesy mod that the owner needs to make.
Make the 10year 100,000 warranty cover the Tech package too - 3 year 36,000 does not compete with your competition
Add the passenger side cooled seat
Add power fold in mirrors for those of us that part in garages alot.
Add Shift paddles on the V8
Add dealers that have the ability to really negotiate.
Add a new market incentive manager that understands that the market is only getting worse and take what you can get now and get the car on the market.
Add aggressive incentives that will make the product manager's of BMW, MB, INF, LEX, AUDI, and Acura want to work for you!

This risk Hyundai is taking right now is a "pro-american" tariff happy new administration that is coming on line. Once 2 MIL former american suppliers lose thier jobs - you can bet that thier Senators are going to begin banging their Lobby arms on the hill to protect thier economic base - this could have a negative impact on Hyundai - even if they have a plant in Alabama.... the GENESIS isn't made in ALABAMA - but in Ulsan Korea....


GENESIS Sales YTD:

June: 30 Units
July: 619 Units
August: 1177 units
September: 1029 units – median monthly – will not achieve sales goal of 20,000 Sedans…..
October 1121 units
November : 1,151 units
Total YTD Sales 5,127 units (74% off target of 20,000 Sedan sales for 2009)

Also note the downward trend for BMW, MB, INF, LEX, AUDI, and Acura…. The numbers in bold are YTD and the Aug, Sept, Oct and Nov unit results… The Genesis is starting to hurt the Lexus GS sales…….. hence their $7000 incentive you can get with aggressive negotiation and their recent $599 Lease (AWD, NAV, GS350, 10K per year)


BMW 5-Series (14,595): 5,287 | 2,423 | 3,958 | 2,927
Mercedes E-Class (10,011): 2,681 | 2,968 | 2,098 | 2,264
Infiniti M (4,667): 1,211 | 1,077 | 1,193 | 1,186
Hyundai Genesis (4,478): 1,177 | 1,029 | 1,121 | 1,151
Lexus GS (4,203): 1,686 | 977 | 819 | 721
Audi A6/S6 (4,085): 1,520 | 1,090 | 758 | 717
Acura RL (1,081): 316 | 259 | 272 | 234

I can agree w/a couple of your points, but your general assumption that the Gen needs to be priced "more aggressively' is a little silly. Several other threads on this site address the value comparison between the Gen and various other vehicles. For some of the features you say are "missing"--well, they aren't a part of the '09 MY, but I understand for about $10K-$20K more you can buy the comparison vehicle. So much for the aggressive pricing.

"As a consumer..." you say you have explored this car ad nauseum. Can you be more specific? As a consumer, for example, I, like so many others on this site, bought one, and have driven it for a good while (purchase date Aug. 2 in my case...nearly 7K miles ago). I don't miss the options you say are missing, and my bank account didn't miss the $20K difference between the Gen and the Lexus! As for the dealer experience, I really couldn't care less. All that stuff adds overhead, which adds to the purchase price of my car. I don't plan on spending any significant time at the dealer w/my car, so if the dealer isn't happy w/their home, I guess they'll rectify that in their own time.

Regardless, I love owning and driving my V6 premium-plus Genesis. The 30.9 highway MPG I got the other day is downright impressive, and the overall 22-24 mpg isn't bad, either, considering 290 hp along with the comfort and space. I was and am impressed with the value.

I hope they sell millions!

Merry Christmas to all!

Dan

 

[gcarper]

All valid points - I think HMA has an opportunity to really smoke the competition - however I don't think the current market is cooperating and I seriously doubt that current pricing will hold. Every dealership I have been to in the National Capital region has a least ten of these cars on the the lot and usually 2 V8's.

ad nauseum defined: Reading this forum for the past 4 months and driving the V8 at the following locations:Towson MD, Fairfax VA, Manassas VA, Leesburg VA, Alexandria VA. Contacted USAA buying service in order to determine best value ($204 under invoice on V8 with Tech).

Wasted 4 hours negiotating with a sales team in Towson MD - I was the only customer in the building for FOUR hours... tried to lowball me on the trade - I walked - next day the manager calls and agrees to my trade-in value - (after driving 60 miles back to VA).

I really like the car but the dealership and massive depreciation are scaring me away... I suspect I will buy a V8 off lease in two years for the .56 residual value ($23,000) ... if it ends up holding up... or what until the second generation when they correct some of the minor stuff like the seat, mirrors, bi-xenons, etc...

Don't get me wrong this is a great car -- just not 40 Large great when the market is tanking....

BTW cars on the road today are the 2009 production run.

 

[njohnson]

I still haven't seen a single dealership "showcasing" the Genesis on their lot...

Same here. I have yet to see the genesis in any ad or dealership commercial, only in Hyundai commercials about the Genesis.

I drive by a couple Hyundai dealerships and never see them outside, only one tan model in the Meriden Hyundai sitting inside their dirty, cramped showroom that has been the same design since it was a used car dealership in the 1980s. Perhaps it could be that this isn't the wealthiest part of CT so they are only showcasing their cheaper vehicles. Not really sure.

 

[mkaresh]

The M45 has only 325 HP and is at least $14000 more than a V8 Gen. The M45 has a few more options such as AWD option and a nicer dealership experience than the Gen. I think the V8 Gen should still outsell the M45.

The price difference is a bit wider with the V8s. But it'll be well under $14,000 out the door.

It's also possible that the V8 Genesis outsells the M45--all I have are total figures, not by engine. But it doesn't really matter how well you or I think it should sell--the market has spoken.

Price really isn't the issue. There are simply only a certain number of people looking for this class of car. Lowering the price probably wouldn't persuade too many more people who are truly interested in the Genesis.

 

[gcarper]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/12/123_36683.html

There still is a ``them and us’’ mentality in America regarding the old, established Big-3 US automakers and the ``new breed’’ of relatively new auto manufacturers that are subsidiaries of offshore companies.

However, American consumers and business leaders ― and even American politicians ― are coming to understand that these new car companies are very substantial contributors to the American economy and an integral part of the US automotive industry.

 

[Michael_S]

Speaking as a supporter of the domestic automakers:

- I am glad the import automakers are present. I think even fans of the Detroit Automakers must admit that the Detroit Automakers stopped trying their best to be competitive some time in the 1970s, and only started trying very hard again in the last few years.

- On the other hand, Hyundai's business, research, and manufacturing presence in the US is comparatively tiny compared to the Detroit automakers. It's good that Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are here, but I don't think you can state that the US won't suffer tremendously if Detroit's automakers go away. (I'm not saying you made that statement, gcarper, just that some fans of the import automakers make it.)

- Most of the foreign automakers that assemble their products in the United States still use a higher percentage of foreign parts. So they may be putting the vehicle together here, and that's good, but the pieces are more likely to be made overseas.

- Alabama gave Hyundai on the order of $250 million in tax breaks to build their manufacturing facility in Alabama. That's a competitive advantage the domestic automakers don't have that has nothing to do with the Big Three's past mistakes.

 

[DanTheMan]

I really like the car but the dealership and massive depreciation are scaring me away...

BTW cars on the road today are the 2009 production run.

I can't speak to the quality (or apparent lack) of the dealership, but "massive depreciation"? If you're really concerned about that, you shouldn't be looking at ANY new car. I researched several years ago and found that ALL major manufacturers lose between 40%-60% of their value in the first two years--a large chunk of it that comes when you drive the new car off the lot for the first time! It's yours--and you're now upside down on the loan if you financed the purchase! You should be looking at a car that's at least 2 years old and been taken care of by the previous owners. I've done that for years. The Gen is the first new car I've bought in years--and I'm very glad that I did.

Maybe you could clarify, but I missed the point as to why you noted the Gens are 2009 models. As an owner, I knew that--especially when I gave the info to my insurance agent. I suspect that everyone who has one also knew that. Any help??

Thanks--

Dan

 

[mkaresh]

It's not clear yet how "massive" depreciation will be.

I've also usually bought cars that are a year or two old to let someone else take the hit. I didn't with a Mazda Protege5 because incentives were so large that the new car was actually cheaper than used ones. But very rarely is a new car a good way to go if you're concerned about total cost of ownership.

 

[gcarper]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that the 2009 model year hadn't started yet for the GENESIS -- which is why I mentioned that the current production GENESIS is a 2009 Model year car. I am glad you bought the GENESIS - take good care of it - I might be the second owner!

As far as depreciation - it's pretty bad on the Genny. Hell even VW does better - on a car that costs essentially the same. ($36,700 without the NAVI and V6) with over $38,000.

.56 Residual Value in two years on a V8 Genesis is ok - but my .73 residual value on my three year old VW EOS is outstanding on a similiar priced car. Fortunately the V6 Genesis does alittle better.

As far as the rant for domestic automakers - I have no sympathy - competition is good for the consumer. If GM would bring on the V6 Diesels that they sell in europe (which are built here in the good ole USA) - I would probably own one...Unfortunatley my only option is the MBUSA Lineup for Diesel Powered Cars & SUV's....