C.A.I. Horsepower Gains

[BlueGenny12]

I have a '12 3.8 sedan and I was looking to purchase a cold air intake soon. Anyone have any figures on HP gains?

 

[Philth]

Minimal. You also add a filter with worse filtration, assuming it is a cotton gauze filter.

 

[Rey]

The Genesis intake is very restrictive in my opinion. Genesis wants to completely eliminate intake noise; and this requires baffles and other restrictive elements. I have worked/created CAI on three Genesis and noted power/mileage gains with each application. Some intake noise on wide open throttle, but otherwise as quiet as OEM.

Do check with the Genesis coupe crowd who have V6s. There are some CAI out there for the coupe that may fit your sedan, but an important part of a kit may not fit - that is the air dam that isolates the air filter.

Over the years I have looked at a number of before/after dyno test sheets; and typically I saw 8-10 rear wheel hp. increase with a well-designed CAI. Gas mileage will increase also, but not so much as to pay for the cost of the CAI.

Do keep all OEM take-off equipment as you will want to restore to OEM someday when you sell the car.

If you proceed, please let us know how it works for you.

 

[osprey]

Total waste of money and will not filter as well, the hp in the 2012 3.8 is very high compared to most 6 cylinders out there.
Most modern engines with higher hp have very good filters, lots of engineering gone into them. Been discussed in every forum I have been on.

 

[BlueGenny12]

Won't filter as well? We're talking about a product where all they do is make filters and intakes and you don't think it will be as good? There is a lot of engineering in designing cars, but they're also de-tuned for longevity.

 

[zielritter]

Won't filter as well? We're talking about a product where all they do is make filters and intakes and you don't think it will be as good? There is a lot of engineering in designing cars, but they're also de-tuned for longevity.

Yes, they don't filter as well. This is proven.

Go read the studies out there (Bob the oil guy has one) that compare OEM filters to the K&N cotton gauze filters. The high-flow filters don't filter nearly as well. So yes, you're getting better flow but at the expense of worse filtration.

I knew this when I got mine and didn't care because the jury is still out as the whether the worse filtration of a high-flow filter actually decreases engine longevity.

 

[jaboyd]

My experience with CIA hp gains is that they're all on the top end of the RPM range. I doubt most Genesis owners are drfiving in the 5k+ rpm range and therefore will never experience the hp gain. 8-10 hp is negligable and you'll probably never even notice. It will sound faster but my money says virtually no one will really feel it....I'd save my $$$s.

 

[ImInPA]

Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to them. The fact is, most modern engines are super-tuned fromthe factory for efficiency and fuel economy numbers. Just slapping a different intake is not going to do a whole lot without modifying the backend as well. To do a CAI without opening up the exaust side does not yield much, if any, noticable improvement. It will sound different, but real performance will likely not be felt or measurable, even though a dyno may show a slight bump in hp.

 

[jnc2000]

I've said this before and I'll say this again... tune for AFR first... then proceed with MODs...

 

[Rey]

My own experience with perhaps 1,000,000 miles using K&N filters, ever since K&N's inception, has been very positive. Most of my vehicles have been driven over 100K miles before resale; and I have never had an oil consumption/motor wear problem. I realize that this is not a definitive test, just an endorsement. A definitive test would be to run in a lab two identical vehicles, etc.

I suggest those who are looking for performance mods, to look at what racers are doing. They all have CAI of some sort; and all that I have seen are using K&N or K&N type air filters. The downside of a CAI is a bit more intake noise on full throttle; and the intake is more exposed to road dust.

As for tuning first for the best air/fuel ratio, there is very little you can do. Keep in mind that most of your driving is in a closed loop mode with the fuel ratio set for best economy/emissions at 14.7:1. The closed loop constantly adjusts to maintain this fuel ratio. The addition of any intake/exhaust mod will be compensated to maintain this ratio. I say "any" with the caveat that the Hyundai system has, like all others, adjustment limitations, but the modifications now available do not in any way challenge the limitations of the Hyundai system. I know this because I actually tested before/after fuel ratios on my '11 4.6 with intake/exhaust mods. It remained steady at 14.7. In open loop cruise intake/exhaust mods allow the motor to "breath" easier, which means reduced pumping loss and a slight increase in gas mileage. There is really no reason to try to change this ratio. Practically, the system is proprietary and no one offers a method to change it. Also, about all one would do for cruise conditions is to try to lean the system a bit further to say about 15.2:1. This might increase gas mileage a bit.

Where intake/exhaust mods are most felt is on full throttle conditions where the fuel system reverts to "open loop." In open loop the air fuel ratio is not monitored. The fuel system runs far richer than 14.7, more like 10:1. This is a pig rich mixture for full power. About 12.8-13 is optimum for power (not emissions). Adding intake/exhaust mods actually had the effect of "tuning" an Air fuel ratio by leaning it. My personal experience had the mods leaning my mixture about 0.75, which was still richer than optimum for power.

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[zielritter]

My own experience with perhaps 1,000,000 miles using K&N filters, ever since K&N's inception, has been very positive. Most of my vehicles have been driven over 100K miles before resale; and I have never had an oil consumption/motor wear problem. I realize that this is not a definitive test, just an endorsement. A definitive test would be to run in a lab two identical vehicles, etc.

I suggest those who are looking for performance mods, to look at what racers are doing. They all have CAI of some sort; and all that I have seen are using K&N or K&N type air filters. The downside of a CAI is a bit more intake noise on full throttle; and the intake is more exposed to road dust.

As for tuning first for the best air/fuel ratio, there is very little you can do. Keep in mind that most of your driving is in a closed loop mode with the fuel ratio set for best economy/emissions at 14.7:1. The closed loop constantly adjusts to maintain this fuel ratio. The addition of any intake/exhaust mod will be compensated to maintain this ratio. I say "any" with the caveat that the Hyundai system has, like all others, adjustment limitations, but the modifications now available do not in any way challenge the limitations of the Hyundai system. I know this because I actually tested before/after fuel ratios on my '11 4.6 with intake/exhaust mods. It remained steady at 14.7. In open loop cruise intake/exhaust mods allow the motor to "breath" easier, which means reduced pumping loss and a slight increase in gas mileage. There is really no reason to try to change this ratio. Practically, the system is proprietary and no one offers a method to change it. Also, about all one would do for cruise conditions is to try to lean the system a bit further to say about 15.2:1. This might increase gas mileage a bit.

Where intake/exhaust mods are most felt is on full throttle conditions where the fuel system reverts to "open loop." In open loop the air fuel ratio is not monitored. The fuel system runs far richer than 14.7, more like 10:1. This is a pig rich mixture for full power. About 12.8-13 is optimum for power (not emissions). Adding intake/exhaust mods actually had the effect of "tuning" an Air fuel ratio by leaning it. My personal experience had the mods leaning my mixture about 0.75, which was still richer than optimum for power.

QFT. This is spot on. I actually installed an AEM wide-band and a Apexi SAFCII on my Elantra I used to have. When cruising you could see the stock narrow-band O2 sensor at work constantly trying to keep the AFR at an average of 14.7:1. It would bounce above and below that value (narrow band is not as precise as wide band) consistently.

However, when I mashed the pedal it would immediately peg at a very rich AFR (before tuning). Stock open loop values were around 10.75-11, my mods made it around 11-11.25, and then I used the SAFC to tune to around 12.9.

There was no use in tuning partial throttle because the ECU would make adjustments based on the O2 sensor and bring me right back to the optimal 14.7.

That said, the SAFCII didn't produce mind boggling gains over and beyond what the CAI, Header, full exhaust, pulley, etc provided in pump efficiency. In fact there was not a noticeable affect on my 0-60 or quarter mile times.

They ECU is proprietary, but there are a couple companies out there that do know how to re-flash it for power on certain models. The Beta and Delta on the older Tiburon have re-flashes I believe along with the Genesis coupe (Poweraxel). Nothing for our sedans though.

 

[zielritter]

Just in case the OP or anyone else is interested in a CAI for the 2012+ Genesis Sedan 3.8, I've been doing some research and discovered a few things about the GDI V6:

1) The 2012+ sedan V6 does not use a MAF, however, there is an IAT/BPS (Barometric pressure) built into the stock airbox that must be considered when installing or building an intake.

2) Knowing number 1), you can deduce that AEM is full of crap on their website when they say their CAI will fit the 2012 sedan. It will fit the 2012 coupe that still used MPI, but will not fit the newer GDI V6 on the sedan or coupe as clearly illustrated in the AEM installation pic that shows a connected MAF. Notice they have no intakes listed for the 2013 Genesis V6 sedan, which uses the same engine/layout as the 2012.

3) The only intake I've been able to find that fits the 3.8 GDI is made by Injen, however, it is only compatible with the 2013+ coupe, who's intake tract enters mid engine as opposed to near the firewall as on the sedan. It would absolutely not fit the sedan, but it does incorporate a spot to connect the IAT/BPS mentioned in 1).

4) This leaves us with no choice but to fabricate something custom, which I may attempt at some point.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[osprey]

These filters are fine for racing but have been shown to have almost no impact on modern cars, many hours of engineering have gone into air intakes, seen this discussed on every forum. There is no free lunch here, more air is less filtering, more dirt inside and if you are lucky you may get a few hp, you will never feel it, louder yes.
Do you think factory engineers are stupid and left some easy hp out there. we have 330 hp on the 3.8 and that is at the top end of non boosted engines.
So a garage engineer can do better than factory, I think not. Not to mention, be sure to make it water proof so if you drive in a large puddle you do not get water in the intake and destroy the engine.
Aftermarket filters are mostly junk, do the research, don't think because it is out there that you can improve over stock, show me some dyno numbers, even then I do not want the dirt in the engine, you MAY see 3-4 hp gain.
Louder yes, but on a Genesis sedan, why louder in this car, do you think it is a sports sedan at 4000 pounds.

 

[ShadowScoobySTi]

Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to them. The fact is, most modern engines are super-tuned fromthe factory for efficiency and fuel economy numbers. Just slapping a different intake is not going to do a whole lot without modifying the backend as well. To do a CAI without opening up the exaust side does not yield much, if any, noticable improvement. It will sound different, but real performance will likely not be felt or measurable, even though a dyno may show a slight bump in hp.

I agree with most of your statement, however, I wouldnt go as far as saying manufacturers "super tune" their cars. My car runs pig rich, as evident by the black soot on my bumper and the black smoke that comes out at WOT. Its not a billowing plume of smoke, but its noticable. None the less, my car runs super rich.

Most stock cars come under tuned (rich) for efficiency. Any BPU mod is worthless on these cars without a pro tune map. And since our cars are not tunable, then its a waste of money. Just my opinion.

 

[brfatal]

I have worked/created CAI on three Genesis and noted power/mileage gains with each application.

Sure you have. No intake for any car in the world frees up enough power to be felt by a butt-dyno. Any power "gains" are purely placebo due to increased engine noise and hope for a good investment. I can't name any cars that made any repeated gains from any intake either that would account for anything more than just the normal gas mileage variance between tanks.

OP: If you're still following this, for a lot of cars changing the intake without making ECU changes to compensate can be bad. I can't speak for the Genesis specifically. Just don't go in with any expectations of potential gains from an intake other than increased noise and you won't be disappointed.

 

[jnc2000]

More then anything we need a tune. The Lambada guys have a tuning solution... we need one for our TAU motors. Until we can control fuel, ignition, timing etc we're stuck with the stock parameters.

 

[zielritter]

Sure you have. No intake for any car in the world frees up enough power to be felt by a butt-dyno. Any power "gains" are purely placebo due to increased engine noise and hope for a good investment. I can't name any cars that made any repeated gains from any intake either that would account for anything more than just the normal gas mileage variance between tanks.

OP: If you're still following this, for a lot of cars changing the intake without making ECU changes to compensate can be bad. I can't speak for the Genesis specifically. Just don't go in with any expectations of potential gains from an intake other than increased noise and you won't be disappointed.

Even without a tune you can still pick up 5-10 hp with a good intake and 10-15 with a CAI. You're right, this can't be felt, but there are gains any time you reduce restriction and increase pump efficiency or bring in air that is more dense in the case of a CAI.

Since the ECU compensates for any lean condition an intake may create, however, a tune will definitely maximize your gains. However, even if the stock AFR ratios are maintained, the CAI does theoretically bring in more oxygen dense (cooler) air, which is typically why you see these intakes outperform an SRI.

 

[Mark63021]

My $.02…. I think this whole topic really boils down to the fact that some guys just wanna tinker with their cars and make changes that allow them to say "I did that, and the end result was....." I totally get and support that. And I have to believe that in the case of this particular mod, that some horsepower is actually gained along with way cooler sounds from under the hood. But what the quantifiable versus empirical improvements actually are seem to be the reason this is more of a religious debate than not. While dyno testing may actually reveal some HP increase, I have to "believe" that it's at the cost of something else that the factory engineers did not believe to be worth the trade (engine longevity, wet-weather drivability, excess noise, etc). Regardless, I say carry on mod’ers; keep the faith and the dream alive!

 

[zielritter]

My $.02…. I think this whole topic really boils down to the fact that some guys just wanna tinker with their cars and make changes that allow them to say "I did that, and the end result was....." I totally get and support that. And I have to believe that in the case of this particular mod, that some horsepower is actually gained along with way cooler sounds from under the hood. But what the quantifiable versus empirical improvements actually are seem to be the reason this is more of a religious debate than not. While dyno testing may actually reveal some HP increase, I have to "believe" that it's at the cost of something else that the factory engineers did not believe to be worth the trade (engine longevity, wet-weather drivability, excess noise, etc). Regardless, I say carry on mod’ers; keep the faith and the dream alive!

The rule of thumb (at least from what people smarter than me say) is that any gain under 10% will not be felt by the driver. This is a gain of 33hp on the V6 and 42.5hp on the 5.0 and you're not getting there with just an intake.

I can tell you in based on my results that Hyundai's engineers did not believe a less restrictive intake and exhaust was worth the increase in cabin volume during acceleration.

 

[jnc2000]

With AFR's reading in the low 11's and 10's on WOT - there are many gains to be had with the proper tune, headers, intake (intake mani) etc...