Hyundai to sell 50,000 Genesis per year, Sonata hybrid coming in 2010

[DieselHybrid]

The "Detroit 3" cooked their own goose over a period of at least 30 years- and now they want the US taxpayer to bail them out. When the most expensive component on a "Detroit 3" vehicle has nothing to do with the car itself, but with healthcare and Union benefits, then something is dreadfull wrong. Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai US plant workers earn a fair day's wages. Please explain to me what makes the UAW so special that they must earn ~double? Unfortunately, the UAW has refused to back down because they are confident that they have the present Congress and our future admistration firmly in their pocket (both strongly pro-Union).

As Americans we should be outraged at any and all "bail-outs." Let bloodletting and the free market run its own course. The last time we had governement intervention on this scale was during the Great Depression. FDR's many well-meaning yet short-sighted programs only accomplished to further extend our economic woes. Ask your grandparents- the only thing that got us out of that grand mess was WWII.

Will our Government's printing of money (w/o legally-mandated backing) to fund our present "bail-outs" land us in another Great Depression? Only God knows. If it does, the least of our worries will be what car to drive.
But I digress...

Personally, I don't agree with plunking down a large sum of $$$ on a "depreciable asset" (if ever there was an oxymoron...) like a luxury car.
Yet, as a result of our faltering economy, the incentives are pouring in from all car manufacturers (luxury or otherwise) in an attempt to move inventory.

Here's a list of manufacturers' incentives that Hyundai's Genesis has to compete against:
Audi: 0.9% financing, lease deals
BMW: 0.9% financing, lease deals
Cadillac: Red Tag pricing, lease deals
Lexus: aggressive deals (none posted on website)
MB: 3.9% financing (more to come), lease deals
Infiniti: 0% financing, lease deals
Volvo: $750 gift card, 3yr complimentary maintenance, lease deals

(Remarkable that Hyundai can now count itself among this illustrious list- isn't it?)

New model or not, Hyundai has no choice but to join the incentives foray if they want to meet their lofty sales goals for the Genesis. I have to agree with the Korean media's criticism that Hyundai chose a poor time to introduce a luxury car. But who knew?

Fortune favors the patient. If the dealers won't deal- then I'll wait for an off-lease Genesis.

btw- where are you guys getting the residual value of the Genesis from?

Peace.

 

[DanTheMan]

Here's a list of manufacturers' incentives that Hyundai's Genesis has to compete against:
Audi: 0.9% financing, lease deals
BMW: 0.9% financing, lease deals
Cadillac: Red Tag pricing, lease deals
Lexus: aggressive deals (none posted on website)
MB: 3.9% financing (more to come), lease deals
Infiniti: 0% financing, lease deals
Volvo: $750 gift card, 3yr complimentary maintenance, lease deals

(Remarkable that Hyundai can now count itself among this illustrious list- isn't it?)

I saw a commercial on TV today (Sat., 12/27) that they are offering 0%/36 mos. or 1.5%-1.9%/48 mos. on everything '08 and similar special deals on most '09 products except the Genesis...depending on your market area. They are still offering specials in Tennessee where I live. Go to their website and plug in your zip code to see what the special is in your area.

One other oddity I noticed on that same site...there is a page called "Vehicle Lineup" where they show pics of each car in their line...except Genesis. Wonder how that helps to move the product line?? Maybe getting rid of their design engineer wasn't the move to make...but dumping the staff/mgmt that handles their advertising promotion and web site design. I also took time to watch the show "Leverage" (TNT/TBS) that is sponsored by the Genesis. Other than two ads (clocks, and the one where the car is rear-ended by a heavy weight in a crash test simulation), there was no other Genesis sightings...not even in the show itself, which I thought was a little lame. Maybe it was just that particular episode...

Dan :>)

 

[gcarper]

Lease factor data for 2009 V8:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1b2fe3


Hi skylab. Hyundai Finance's current 27 month buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 2009 Genesis V8 with 12,000 miles per year are .00027 and 56%, respectively.

Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

 

[gcarper]

Manassas VA location now has 13 Genny's on the lot verse 10 last week. Fairfax VA moved several to their secondary lot... because the primary lot is crowded with Genny's... I smell Incentives for January for the National Capital Region.

 

[mkaresh]

Residual values are just estimates, especially with a new model like the Genesis. And sometimes they are subsidized by the manufacturer--this is clearly the case for the Eos.

 

[Michael_S]

As far as the rant for domestic automakers - I have no sympathy - competition is good for the consumer. If GM would bring on the V6 Diesels that they sell in europe (which are built here in the good ole USA) - I would probably own one...Unfortunatley my only option is the MBUSA Lineup for Diesel Powered Cars & SUV's....

Note that Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, and Hyundai all offer diesel engines overseas but not in the US. The Big Three aren't the only ones that have a tough time making a diesel that meets US emissions regulations.

The "Detroit 3" cooked their own goose over a period of at least 30 years- and now they want the US taxpayer to bail them out. When the most expensive component on a "Detroit 3" vehicle has nothing to do with the car itself, but with healthcare and Union benefits, then something is dreadfull wrong. Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai US plant workers earn a fair day's wages. Please explain to me what makes the UAW so special that they must earn ~double? Unfortunately, the UAW has refused to back down because they are confident that they have the present Congress and our future admistration firmly in their pocket (both strongly pro-Union).

Right now, the total cost between benefits, wages, and employer contribution to Social Security and Medicare taxes for foreign automakers in the US is $45 per hour and for UAW members is $55 per hour. And that $10 difference per hour will be gone in 2012. The $73 per hour figure often quoted in the news arises when you take the costs of UAW retirees and spread it out as an average added cost for active employees.

Those UAW retiree pension plans were negotiated in good faith, and the employees paid into them a portion of their wages. No, it's not fair to demand that the US taxpayer cover retiree costs that a smarter, better managed company should be able to produce out of its own revenue. But it's even less fair to tell over half a million retirees that the pensions and health insurance they worked for 30 years and paid into for 30 years are totally gone. It will cost the government far more than $17 billion (let alone $17 billion in just loans) to take care of those people once their previous source of income and health insurance goes away.

Between the automakers themselves, suppliers, dealership employees, and pensions there are over 3 million incomes at stake if the Big Three collapse. I absolutely support a $17 billion or even, should it come to that, a $170 billion loan to protect that many jobs over the greater than $500 billion already spent for the financial sector (AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the already spent portion of the TARP funds) with no easy way to measure any positive results.

5 years ago, I would have been among those supporting the death of the Big Three. Outside of their pickup trucks, you could count on one hand the number of products worth buying. At that point, no bailout made sense because we would be propping up trash. But I can't think of anything Ford and GM introduced for model year 2008 and 2009 that are duds, and the previews for 2010 are very exciting. As long as they continue to demonstrate that they are competing again, I think they deserve support.

Oh, and one more thing. Building a modern car is not like designing a new toaster, or writing a Facebook application, or writing an iPhone application, or coming out with a new line of designer jeans. A company that wants to get into the car business today needs billions of dollars to develop a product, pass all of the emissions and safety regulations, and bring it to market. Tesla is the first new US automaker in decades, their first model uses a complete body from Lotus, and they're struggling to stay afloat. Compare that to 80 years ago, when there were dozens of startup car companies in each state! In other words, if we let our domestic auto industry die, it will probably never come back.

 

[DieselHybrid]

Off topic, yet...
The only viable solution to making the "Detroit 3" competitive again is bankruptcy- not Chapter 11, but full Chapter 7. The former would not change the UAW's stranglehold on this industry, while the latter would break the UAW up- which is exactly what the "Detroit 3" need to survive and possibly thrive.

The Unions have played a large part in destroying our country's steel, ship building, airline, and auto industries, as well as our public educational system. They're trying hard to do the same thing at Boeing, our country's single biggest exporter.

We're in a global economy, folks, if you keep biting the hand that feeds you and refuse to remain competitive at home (making yourself indespensible) your job will be outsourced. Plain and simple. If you can't remain competitive, then India and China (among others) will gladly overtake you. Read "The World is Flat" by T. Friedman for an explanation.

As a patriotic service member, I would prefer to buy American, yet I refuse to: 1. support UAW labor that further weakens our country, 2. prop-up inferior products with my hard-earned cash. As a result, my family buys American-manufactured , non-Union Toyotas and Hondas.

Hyundai has spent a bundle in their manufacturing plant in Alabama. They are creating jobs in a historically economically-depressed area of the US. Because of this and the fact that the Genesis clearly has no peer at this pricepoint, I am willing to purchase from them. Even though the Genesis is foreign-built- I have spent enough time in industrial S. Korea to have a deep respect for their culture, industry, and incomparable work-ethic. Watch-out Japan, S. Korea is on the move!

The trouble is our country's current (and future) crop of elected officials are willing to dish their constituents "hand-outs" left and right! This is alarming! The USA is in NO position to continue this self-destructive practice. "Bail-outs" are clearly not the answer.

As I understand it, the $700 billion financial "bail-out" was passed on the premise that this would free-up the credit markets and help our economy get back on the move. If this is true, then why can't the "Detroit 3" (and every other American for that matter) get a low interest loan? Why is everyone lining-up for a "bail-out" as well? Because no one (companies, city & state governments, individuals) can secure inexpensive loans.

As an alarming example, do you know what Bank of America did with their slice of the mega-billion financial "bail-out?" They bought a bank in China! Check into this if you don't believe me. Where is the accountability? Why aren't the banks doing what they were supposed to do and free-up credit? Because Paulson handed-out the "bail-out" money with no strings attached. It's a travesty that the American taxpayer has been so duped!

Let the free-market correct itself. Otherwise mark my words: history (1929-1939 specifically) will repeat itself when all our well-meaning "bail-outs" and tinkering make matters worse.

Peace.

 

[Michael_S]

There's plenty of economic damage to this country that had absolutely zero to do with unions. See, for example, Enron, Arthur Anderson, MCI, and the real estate bubble.

Also consider what the country was like before unions existed. "I sold my soul to the company store" was not hyperbole.

Those industries you named all had unions for a reason. Workers would get abused, overworked, and underpaid. Airline pilot unions accepted a pay cut, and then the airline executives turned around and took one third of the money to give themselves massive bonuses. In public schools that don't have a teacher's union, like North Carolina, the principal can fire teachers he doesn't like because of their religious views, their skin color, or no reason at all.

There are some very solid arguments and evidence that Toyota and Honda in the US only pay their line workers competitive rates because they don't want a UAW presence. If the UAW dies, they know they can cut wages and benefits without fearing that their workers will join.

Unions are an imperfect solution to a very real problem. Unions have certainly caused problems and in many cases should be reformed, but ditched? Never.

The Unions have played a large part in destroying our country's steel, ship building, airline, and auto industries, as well as our public educational system. They're trying hard to do the same thing at Boeing, our country's single biggest exporter.

We're in a global economy, folks, if you keep biting the hand that feeds you and refuse to remain competitive at home (making yourself indespensible) your job will be outsourced. Plain and simple. If you can't remain competitive, then India and China (among others) will gladly overtake you. Read "The World is Flat" by T. Friedman for an explanation.

It's awfully difficult to compete against countries like China, where there are no pollution controls to stop you from killing the people living nearby instead of cleaning up your industrial waste, there are no labor laws preventing you from treating your employees like expendable resources (and there are documented cases of tens of thousands of forced laborers, people made to work or else they get executed), and in many cases the government is giving billions of dollars in direct funding to jump-start domestic industry.

We shouldn't be paying a janitor $20 an hour. We arguably shouldn't be paying him $10 per hour, either. But neither should we be paying him $2 per hour, and firing him if he calls in sick - and that's the only way we're going to come close to matching China on labor costs.

 

[DieselHybrid]

@ Michael S

Clearly Unions served a vaild purpose- but they have long outlived their usefulness and are anachronisms of a by-gone era.

Don't place words in my posts or twist what I say- please re-read what I wrote. I never mentioned that Unions are the SOLE source of EVERY economic problem our country now faces- but merely that:
"The Unions have played a large part in destroying our country's steel, ship building, airline, and auto industries, as well as our public educational system."

I'll let the sorry state of the aforementioned industries speak for themselves (results of both Union & management ineptitude). Meanwhile, the USA's educational system is the laughing stock of the industrialized world. Need I say more?

Welcome to the 21st century where labor is a commodity. Intransigent Unions pave the way to outsourcing. Wherever outsourcing is hindered, socialism takes root- which (good or bad) appears to be the direction the US pendulum is swinging today.

btw- What was the original topic of this post again?
Peace.

 

[BigElm]

Let's focus on the thread topic guys.... thanks!

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[Flex59]

Has anyone seen the prototype photos of the 2010 Hyundai Equus (VI) showned on the Autospies.com? My GOD is that freaking GORGEOUS!!!! It looks like a S-550 with an attitude problem!

Please GOD let Hyundai bring it to the States! AGHHH it is gorgeous. Please try and get better photos when available!

Flex59

 

[gcarper]

Hyundai Motor America Reports December and Full-Year 2008 Sales
FOUNTAIN VALLEY, Calif., Jan. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Hyundai Motor America today announced sales of 401,742 for 2008, a decline of 14 percent over 2007.


"While 2008 was a tough year, we are encouraged that Hyundai was once again able to outperform the general market and increase our market share in the midst of unprecedented market conditions," said Dave Zuchowski, Hyundai Motor America's vice president of national sales.


"We are looking forward to 2009," added Zuchowski. "In fact, to help us build on the tenth anniversary of Hyundai's industry-leading 10-year/100,000-mile warranty, the 'Hyundai Assurance Program' has just been announced. The Hyundai Assurance Program provides new car buyers and lessees who lose their income protection against negative equity and credit rating concerns. With these two great tools in place and the strongest product lineup in our history, we are cautiously optimistic going into the New Year." For details about the Hyundai Assurance Program please visit www.hyundaiusa.com.


Sales for December were 24,037, up 25 percent over November.


All Hyundai vehicles sold in the U.S. are covered by The Hyundai Advantage, America's Best Warranty. Hyundai buyers are protected by a 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty, a 5-year/60,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, a 7-year/unlimited-mile anti-perforation warranty and 5-year/unlimited-mile roadside assistance protection.


Hyundai Motor America, headquartered in Fountain Valley, Calif., is a subsidiary of Hyundai Motor Co. of Korea. Hyundai vehicles are distributed throughout the United States by Hyundai Motor America and are sold and serviced by more than 790 dealerships nationwide.




CARLINE DEC/2007 DEC/2008 CY/2007 CY/2008
------- -------- -------- ------- -------
ACCENT 1,945 1,833 36,055 50,431
SONATA 24,872 6,593 145,568 117,357
ELANTRA 3,757 2,635 85,724 94,720
TIBURON 601 412 14,073 9,111
SANTA FE 9,102 6,289 92,421 70,994
AZERA 1,597 347 21,948 14,461
TUCSON 2,962 874 41,476 19,027
ENTOURAGE 429 3,065 17,155 8,470
VERACRUZ 1,222 949 12,589 11,004
GENESIS 0 1,040 0 6,167
TOTAL 46,487 24,037 467,009 401,742






SOURCE Hyundai Motor America

 

[goaliedad30]

Interesting ... down 16% YoY, when the market overall is down 25-30%. Sounds like Hyundai actually gained market share. I know we bought two (an Accent for my 16 year old son, and my Genesis) ...

 

[pm1234]

Interesting ... down 16% YoY, when the market overall is down 25-30%. Sounds like Hyundai actually gained market share. I know we bought two (an Accent for my 16 year old son, and my Genesis) ...

Nissan/Infiniti was down 10 %.

Combined sales for Nissan and Infiniti of 62,102 units, compared with last December’s sales of 89,555 units, marked a decrease of 30.7 percent.
For the 2008 calendar year, combined sales of Nissan and Infiniti totaled 951,350 units, a 10.9 percent decrease from 2007.

http://nissannews.com
BMW was down only 4 %
Munich. In view of the global financial and economic crisis the BMW Group was, as expected, unable to match the previous year’s record earnings in its sales figures for 2008 as a whole. Nevertheless, the company reported only a moderate decrease of 4.3% from 2007’s high level.
http://bmwgroup.com

EDIT: Fixed the Links I think.

 

[DanTheMan]

http://http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/nav/index.html?http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/corporate_news/news/2008/Vertriebsmeldung_Maerz_2008.html

Again...try revising the links (both of them)...they don't work!

 

[Tufast]

Speaking as a supporter of the domestic automakers:

- I am glad the import automakers are present. I think even fans of the Detroit Automakers must admit that the Detroit Automakers stopped trying their best to be competitive some time in the 1970s, and only started trying very hard again in the last few years.

- On the other hand, Hyundai's business, research, and manufacturing presence in the US is comparatively tiny compared to the Detroit automakers. It's good that Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are here, but I don't think you can state that the US won't suffer tremendously if Detroit's automakers go away. (I'm not saying you made that statement, gcarper, just that some fans of the import automakers make it.)

- Most of the foreign automakers that assemble their products in the United States still use a higher percentage of foreign parts. So they may be putting the vehicle together here, and that's good, but the pieces are more likely to be made overseas.

- Alabama gave Hyundai on the order of $250 million in tax breaks to build their manufacturing facility in Alabama. That's a competitive advantage the domestic automakers don't have that has nothing to do with the Big Three's past mistakes.

3/4s of Hyundai's parts are made right here in the good ole U.S.A. That's how we are able to have such a high parts fill rate in our parts depts. I don't know about other manufacturers since I don't work for them, nor have I taken the time to research them.

 

[bnhbutts]

Like I said before, if they reach 10,000 in a year, then they will do well. 50,000 is not going to happen, ever.

I'm in agreement that they need provide some agressive incentives. I'm also curious as to who they want to buy this car. It seems like they are marketing it to current luxury car owners, as opposed to someone like me, who is in the market for a car and is a lifelong Honda Accord owner, but can't quite justify any luxury car price, let alone this one. I'd like to move up in the market, but this pricing is still rather steep

 

[DanTheMan]

Like I said before, if they reach 10,000 in a year, then they will do well. 50,000 is not going to happen, ever.

I'm in agreement that they need provide some agressive incentives. I'm also curious as to who they want to buy this car. It seems like they are marketing it to current luxury car owners, as opposed to someone like me, who is in the market for a car and is a lifelong Honda Accord owner, but can't quite justify any luxury car price, let alone this one. I'd like to move up in the market, but this pricing is still rather steep

Interesting analysis from someone who doesn't have access to their statistical reviews and analysis! I think the answer to the question as to target customer is they anticipated people moving up from a somewhat lesser vehicle (of nearly any make), but are finding that many are moving over to the Gens from MB, BMW, etc. The pricing is good based on what you get for the money, although your personal economic circumstance may dictate otherwise for you. I think that the Car of the Year award will add to the general 'awareness' of the marketplace overall as to the existence of the car and what it really is.

Dan :>)

 

[Sonata2009]

Dan,
I totally agree. I sure don't think Hyundai is stupid in any sense, and I think it's clear by the LACK of any meaningful incentives, that Genesis sales are right where they want them to be, at least given the current economic situation.

Any significant incentives must be offset by an equal or greater boost in number of units sold, and I guess they just don't see that happening.

It could also be that first year margins are slim to begin with, so there isn't a great deal of "room" in the pricing. If that is the case, this is the year to buy!

 

[Tufast]

I think they can do 50,000 units/yr considering that they've tracked pretty well so far:

Hyundai was shooting for 8,000 units (Genesis sedans) for 2008. Since the coupe has not been released in the states yet, we can't count it & it was only a partial year, they ended up with 6,167. Considering the economy at the end of 2008, that's not bad.

They are aiming for 50,000 units per year there after, although the coupe will still not be released until the 2nd quarter. Of that 50,000 unit goal, 20,000 are to be sedans. So, if you take the 20,000 sedans/yr & divide by 12, they will need to sell 1,667 sedans/month. That's not that lofty of a goal considering they did nearly that many in the last few monts of the year for 2008 & since then word has gotten out about how wonderful a vehicle this is. Hell, it got North American car of the year & with this economy, I would expect people to be more frugal with their spending, esp on big purchases like cars. With that said, I would expect the sale of the Genesis to go up per month during the 2009 calender year & reach their goal of 1,667 sedans/month.

As for the Coupe, it has a HUGE following & it hasn't even been released yet. They will sell a ridiculous amount of these cars at their price point, mark my words. I know for a fact that 2 are already sold to me & my brother. IMO 30,000 units will be no problem to obtain, but in the end we just have to wait & see.