Car won't stop; Internal ABS Brake Module Fault $2,230

[GenesisCaptain]

I am curious if the ABS supplier is Bosch and Bosch has a reliability problem. I had not heard of a common ABS module failure outside of my former car, but if the Genesis has one, and Bosch makes ours too, then there could be trouble in paradise.

The other thing I am very curious about is why a total brake failure is happening. That is supposed to be nearly impossible. But, if it happens more than once, then there may be something fundamentally wrong with Hyundai's brake system design in our cars.

 

[homeofstone]

Did anyone notice that the OP put the shifter in Park while exiting the freeway? That is a no no. So, I wonder what internal damage was done to the transmission.

 

[jmo51]

I would like to give my friends here a word of advice.

If a complete brake failure happens to any of you while under warranty, do your best to photo document the failure ie photo of the brake pedal on the floor, have the vehicle towed to to the dealer, provide your evidence and refuse to take your vehicle back until the issue resolved.

The safety of each of you and your families should never be jeopardized by a stubborn vehicle manufacturer.

John M

 

[jmo51]

Did anyone notice that the OP put the shifter in Park while exiting the freeway? That is a no no. So, I wonder what internal damage was done to the transmission.

Shifting into park while the vehicle is moving quickly should not cause internal damage. Most automatic transmissions are design with a fail safe for this exact thing.

 

[jasonsw]

Did anyone notice that the OP put the shifter in Park while exiting the freeway? That is a no no. So, I wonder what internal damage was done to the transmission.

NO NO NO! I managed to stop barely. There's freeway exit and entrance merging in (collector road / lanes) so thankfully there were enough room and it's little uphill.

Remember when you are on a bicycle when you were young? When your bicycle brake don't work completely, you come to a stop after awhile because it only works little bit? Or, when you have no brakes, you put down your shoes to drag it to stop?

When I finally stopped. I engaged PARKING and shifted back to DRIVE to move out of the lanes. Only then, the brakes regained its power.

 

[homeofstone]

page 5-13 of my Genesis owner's manual "CAUTION
The transmission may be damaged
if you shift into P (Park) while the
vehicle is in motion"

 

[minus200]

You will soon make some lawyers VERY happy. Might be class action at that

 

[lncaylor]

If after all efforts to get Hyundai to do the right thing fails, I would look to go to small claims court. It is not too difficult to do in most states.

 

[Mark_888]

If after all efforts to get Hyundai to do the right thing fails, I would look to go to small claims court. It is not too difficult to do in most states.

Depends on whether the buyer agreed to arbitration when the car was purchased. In that case, arbitration proceedings would have to be started.

 

[WowCool]

Depends on whether the buyer agreed to arbitration when the car was purchased. In that case, arbitration proceedings would have to be started.

I'm not sure I agree with you (Mark_888) .. Anyone can start proceedings,
complete the documentation against Who? Hyundai or The Dealership? you pay your fee, a date is set... Then the fun starts:-
because you have to prove your case, it might even be sent to the courts arbitration section.. I doubt Hyundai would just sit back. And then of course the bad blood really begins.. As the great Winston Churchill said "Jaw Jaw Jaw" is better than "war war war"

With a serious issue like we are discussing. at the outset, however wound up I am, I always take a couple of boxes of fresh donuts for the technicians and have a chat over a coffee with the service manager......

As for your statement regarding "Not buying another Hyundai" Yes the brake failures are more than worrying. Yes Hyundai as do other manufacturers refuse to cover warranty claims out of the warranty period and or when they cannot replicate to issue. Unless you have a camera looking at your feet on the pedals and another monitoring the dashboard the brake failure cannot be
photographed. After the event unless vehicle damage occurred and or injury to any persons a pic of a pedal will not suffice.. If a Police Office saw the incident he would assume your driving is suspect, nothing you could say would change his mind.. As with the Toyota acceleration issue, although it was accepted the glitch did happen, no one could replicate. It's all down to the driver.. (Pilot Error) .. My answer/reply to any service writers & Service Managers, if you think this car is OK/Safe, let me take your wife and family out for a 150 drive every day for a month.. (including freeways etc..) Or, maybe better, let your wife drive this car for a month! ---
I'm sure (Mark_888) your response will be both very informative & most definitely entertaining..

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[Mark_888]

I'm not sure I agree with you (Mark_888) .. Anyone can start proceedings,
complete the documentation against Who? Hyundai or The Dealership? you pay your fee, a date is set... Then the fun starts:-
because you have to prove your case, it might even be sent to the courts arbitration section.. I doubt Hyundai would just sit back. And then of course the bad blood really begins.. As the great Winston Churchill said "Jaw Jaw Jaw" is better than "war war war"

Many (but not all) car dealerships in the USA ask that customers sign papers at closing (with the Finance guy) agreeing that the customer will not sue the dealer in court, and instead resolve any disagreements via a private mandatory arbitration process (supposedly with an independent arbitrator). Laws regarding this vary by state, and it depends on whether the customer agreed to mandatory arbitration in lieu of using the courts when they purchased their vehicle. Some dealers will not sell you a car unless you agree to mandatory arbitration, and others just ask you (but do not require) that you agree up front to mandatory arbitration if a dispute happens later on. That is why I said it "Depends on whether the buyer agreed to mandatory arbitration when the car was purchased."

I am talking about the USA, and I have no idea how it works in the UK, but that is probably not relevant for OP.

 

[Mark_888]

As for your statement regarding "Not buying another Hyundai" Yes the brake failures are more than worrying. Yes Hyundai as do other manufacturers refuse to cover warranty claims out of the warranty period and or when they cannot replicate to issue.

In the USA, an auto manufacturer can be forced to do a recall and fix things even out of warranty if they represent a serious safety hazard. I personally think this (complete brake failure, even if it happens intermittently) qualifies. Probably the only thing saving Hyundai from a mandatory recall is the relatively low sales volume of Genesis sedans compared to some other models, which reduces the visibility of the problem, given that a certain percentage of vehicles have the problem. It seems to me from reading this forum, that an alarming number of 2009 Genesis owners are now having this problem and that it could eventually affect a large number of 2009 owners (and maybe other model years also). But if there are enough hungry class action lawyers out there, who knows what will happen?

In the case of Toyota, my understanding is that the problem you are referencing did not have a clear cut solution. There were strong "suspicions" that it had something to do with floor mats and the gas pedal design, IIRC. And as I am sure you know, a certain number of people do hit the wrong pedal when attempting to brake, and if there are millions of units out there (ie, Toyota/Lexus), then there will be more incidents of driver error happening. The Genesis brake problem seem to clearly be defective a ABS control unit (or one that fails prematurely) and not a driver error, and in every case I have read on this forum, replacing the ABS Control Unit fixed the problem.

It is still not clear what the brake fluid upgrade to DOT-4 has to do with this problem (if anything). I would not take anyone's word on this (from HMA or a dealer) even if they claim to know. I am sure that Hyundai lawyers have instructed HMA and dealers what to say when asked about it (which may or may not be the whole truth).

 

[WowCool]

Hi Mark_888,
I completely agree, whatever the cause, it's obvious there is a spate of "Bad" ABS modules out there..internal air bubbles, faulty design, bad QC or whatever. Overall I think "H" should replace these and or other faulty units on ANY of their vehicles without even a quibble......
I've had a few brake failures over the years, mostly the Master Cylinder, sometimes the Servo and on one occasion a brake cylinder just went pop..

 

[jmo51]

page 5-13 of my Genesis owner's manual "CAUTION
The transmission may be damaged
if you shift into P (Park) while the
vehicle is in motion"

I understand that. Once a vehicle is traveling beyond a few miles an hour it will not go into park. Pushing the shifter in to the Park position will make a grinding/buzzing noise. Damage is likely to occur if shifted into Park while rolling. I've had experience with this.

 

[Mark_888]

I understand that. Once a vehicle is traveling beyond a few miles an hour it will not go into park. Pushing the shifter in to the Park position will make a grinding/buzzing noise. Damage is likely to occur if shifted into Park while rolling. I've had experience with this.

It would not surprise me if some modern transmissions simply did not allow one to go into park when moving, without causing any damage. I have not tested that, and don't intend to (unless my brakes fail). It is also possible that not all transmissions are the same in this regard. Just for the Genesis sedan, there are three different transmissions used so far:

• 2009-2011 V6 - Aisin 6-speed
• 2009-2001 V8 - ZF 6-speed
• 2012+ - Hyundai 8-speed

 

[Aquineas]

Well thankfully, the feds have gotten wind:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/feds-probe-2009-hyundai-genesis-after-brake-complaints.html

 

[Fast55]

That's gonna leave a mark....................

 

[Aquineas]

That's gonna leave a mark....................

I sure hope so. Hyundai has waited far too long to address this issue, and for them to deny the warranty claim of the OP when he'd clearly brought the car in previously for the same problem is just egregious. Shame on you Hyundai!

 

[Mark_888]

The NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has opened an investigation into this problem.
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=12291

Anyone who has had this problem and not filed a complaint with the NHTSA, should do so now:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

 

[Jean]

Finally, this morning an announcement was made on a local TV station in Baltimore, Maryland that there is a recall on 2009 Genesis regarding this issue! I had this issue with my car and after many complaints to HMA and USDOT, (The station said there weer 27,500 complaints) hopefully something is being done..