Rough Ride (rear)

[ttsig]

Right, I've driven my Genesis now for nearly 12k miles, on all types of roads, across mostly the Southeast (say NC to LA), from Interstates to rural secondary roads, many of which are quite rough. Heck, I live on a dirt road in SC which regularly has the "washboard" pattern so common on roads around here.

With all of that, I've found maybe 15-20 miles of highway where the Genesis ride is completely unacceptable. "Unsettled" would be kind for those specifics roads however, "bucking bronco" would be more accurate. When I encountered it the first time, doing about 75MPH on I-20 in rural Alabama, I though I hit something or blown a tire. It's was crazy. I've now been down that short stretch 4 times, and it happens every time. Something about that stretch of pavement simply brings out the worst in the suspension. If you've never experienced it, well, your lucky.

What's amazing is that I've also driven that stretch probably 20 times in other vehicles, from a pickup truck, to a mini-van, to a Jeep Liberty. While that particular stretch is always a little rough, no other vehicle turns into the complete mess like the Genesis does.

I see this to a lesser extent on a handful of other road surfaces, not to that extent, but on other rough roads it just sometimes gets a little jumpy. It's annoying because, for probably 99% of my driving, I think the Genesis is just about perfect. Still, if I had felt these effects before my purchase, it would have made me think twice. I might have still purchased the Genesis, because I like almost everything about it, but it would have made me seriously reconsider the alternatives.

I know the people on this forum talk like the Genesis is such a super bargain, and maybe it is, but it's the most expensive car I've ever purchased and I expected it to at least perform consistently, I certainly didn't expect it to be the least consistent driving vehicle I had ever purchased.

 

[njohnson]

I really need to take a test drive of the Genesis. I currently drive in a car with coilovers lowered 2" and with a tire pressure of 42psi so I'm wondering if coming from this car it will seem downright soft.

Is it a perception problem in relation to a previously owned vehicle? I would not certainly not want Hyundai to make a very soft suspension.

 

[thomaspf]

@ttsig

Your description in spot on. This is exactly what I have been describing all along. There seems to be a resonance problem and if you hit the resonance frequency the car gets into an unsafe state.

Maybe its time for Hyundai to acknowledge that and do something about this before some safety agency steps in.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[August West]

First, I don't think the problem is "serious." If you look at the overall reviews, even from Consumer Reports, they rated it higher than any other upscale sedan, and most of the competition costs thousands more than the Genesis (except maybe for V8 Genesis).

Second, I think it can be fixed without redesigning the suspension. All they have to do is put slight different shock/spring on the car, and maybe only on the rear. In fact I would not be surprised if they just may a slight adjustment to the rear springs on newer models without even announcing that they have done it.

I also don't really fault Hyundai for not "admitting" there is a problem, at least not until they come up with a solution, The magnitude of the issue is not so great that one can call it a "defect." I think you have to drive the car yourself and determine whether it bothers you. Maybe you need to find some slightly rougher roads for your test drive. If it the ride is fine for the roads you drive on, then you don't need to worry.

Thanks for the reply Mark.

Maybe "serious" is a bit overstated (but reading ttsig's post above, maybe not). Perhaps "of great concern to a potential buyer" would describe it better. I realize the Genesis is getting very favorable reviews in most circles and I love the car and just about everything about it. That is what makes it so tough to not just walk away from it and go to something else. True, while most of the competition cost thousands if not tens of thousands more none that I know of are having these type of suspension issues.

As far as fixing the problems without a major redesign I would agree, that will probably not be necessary. A few minor tweaks would hopefully be all that is needed. But it would be a large leap of faith on my part to purchase the car knowing about these issues and hoping Hyundai will step up to the plate and cover cost when a fix is developed and I certainly would hate to pay for a fix out of my own pocket on a new $40K auto.

As for driving the car for myself and seeing if this behavior would bother me seems to be all but impossible since the road surfaces that invoke the "bucking bronco" effect seem to be pretty benign in other vehicles and seemingly are only problem in the Genesis. I don't know if any of the roads exist around here or how I would identify them if they do without extensively driving them in a Genesis (which I'm pretty sure the dealer won't agree to).

I think this quote from ttsig's post sums up where I'm at perfectly (only I haven't made the purchase yet). In fact, ttsig's whole post is spot on and highlights my concerns going into a purchase like this.

It's annoying because, for probably 99% of my driving, I think the Genesis is just about perfect. Still, if I had felt these effects before my purchase, it would have made me think twice. I might have still purchased the Genesis, because I like almost everything about it, but it would have made me seriously reconsider the alternatives.

I know the people on this forum talk like the Genesis is such a super bargain, and maybe it is, but it's the most expensive car I've ever purchased and I expected it to at least perform consistently, I certainly didn't expect it to be the least consistent driving vehicle I had ever purchased.

Maybe Hyundai should get in touch with ttsig and find out the exact location of that stretch of highway in Alabama. If the problem is repeatable as ttsig indicates it is, it should be pretty easy to duplicate and come up with a fix.

Regardless, I'm really not in a big hurry so I think I will just sit back and wait to see if/when Hyundai come up with a fix for this. If I have new car by next fall, that would be OK with me and I'd be willing to wait for the Genesis because I really do like the car and would love to have one parked in my garage.

Cheers

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe Hyundai should get in touch with ttsig and find out the exact location of that stretch of highway in Alabama. If the problem is repeatable as ttsig indicates it is, it should be pretty easy to duplicate and come up with a fix.

If you recall from the Car and Driver video I posted above, the track where they test their "10 Best Cars" is where the Genesis exhibited the same problems with the suspension that everyone is talking about. Hyundai heard the criticism (one of their top people was in the car when Car and Driver editor discussed the problem with him) and he knows exactly where the track is.

 

[Mark_888]

I really need to take a test drive of the Genesis. I currently drive in a car with coilovers lowered 2" and with a tire pressure of 42psi so I'm wondering if coming from this car it will seem downright soft.

Is it a perception problem in relation to a previously owned vehicle? I would not certainly not want Hyundai to make a very soft suspension.

Did you view the Car and Driver video posted above? Don't confuse soft/firm and control/out of control. The Car and Driver editor pointed out a BMW handled their test track much better than the Genesis, even though no one would describe a BMW as soft. He also pointed out that the Car and Driver selection as the best sports sedan (Infiniti M) is firmer than the Genesis, but does not loose control on the rough portion of the track.

 

[scottdk]

i had to look up what "troll" meant. i'm no troll. i just strongly believe that of all models, the Genesis should be flawless considering they spent 5 yrs and $500 million on developing the entire car. besides, they tout the suspension as being very sophisticated and very expensive, so users shouldn't have harsh ride issues. just my opinion. again. i love hyundai, but they need to try harder for their customers.

I carpool to work and drove last week with 3 passengers and not one of them complained about the ride (and they would tell me) matter of fact, they said they were the most comfortable seats they ever sat in and stated it was a great ride for a back seat.

Rough ride? Yes or No, just depends on how you look at it. I just paid how much less compared to others in its class? $10,000 or even $20,000 compared too Merc and BMW.

SOLD!

 

[Mark_888]

I carpool to work and drove last week with 3 passengers and not one of them complained about the ride (and they would tell me) matter of fact, they said they were the most comfortable seats they ever sat in and stated it was a great ride for a back seat.

Rough ride? Yes or No, just depends on how you look at it. I just paid how much less compared to others in its class? $10,000 or even $20,000 compared too Merc and BMW.SOLD!

Obviously the Genesis has a very comfortable back seat, and it is so large that I am thinking of sub-letting mine out.

But that has nothing to do with the suspension issues. And there is a difference between the overall ride and the lack of control on less than smooth roads. IMO the Genesis is jittery on less than smooth roads. But even with that issue, one can tell that it has a fairly sophisticated suspension and has a nice ride on a smooth road.

I would never tell a friend of mine that his brand-new $35-$40K car had any problems, unless it was very serious, and even then I am not sure I would.

I think some sort of objective test is called for. A previous poster said that one cannot read a book in the back seat (or probably the front). Have someone hold a glass of water in the back seat that is 75% full and video tape it in the Genesis and another car on the same route. I think the results should be interesting.

BTW, my last car was a 98 Camry with original struts (but only 80K miles).

 

[ttsig]

Rough ride? Yes or No, just depends on how you look at it. I just paid how much less compared to others in its class? $10,000 or even $20,000 compared too Merc and BMW.
SOLD!

I don't agree with this statement at all. If it doesn't handle consistently, like the others in the class it claims to be in, then guess what, it's not in their class, it only attempts to be there. My friends BMW has a much stiffer ride than my Genesis, but it's handling holds up on the same rough conditions that make my Genesis go wacky.

Fortunately I can live with it because the handling is a non-issue about 99% of the time, however, if I knew this before hand that 1% would have been enough to make me think twice.

See, I wasn't in the market for a MB or BMW so the $10-20K less arguments don't work for me. I was looking at other cars with very similar price points, like a well equipped Maxima or similar. I would have been perfectly happy with such a car, but the Genesis selling point was that it offers me the ability to "step up" in class for the same basic price. If I'm really to be sold that I'm "stepping up" in class, the vehicle needs to reflect this and, while it does succeed in many ways, the inconsistent handling (not it's stiffness) simply damages that perception. Does it damage it to the point that it falls back to the same class as the "near-Luxury" models, I think it might, and if I were buying again, I would certainly have to consider it as a negative.

 

[CanukV6]

I am fairly new to this forum, but relieved to find that I am not the only one who has an issue with the ride. Lets be clear, I am certainly not bashing the Genesis, I think it is a fantastic car at any price and I have been fortunate in the past to have driven a variety of BMW's, Mercedes and Lexus vehicles over a number of years. ttsig's description was spot on.

The overall handling and ride is great, but particularly over transverse ridges or tar strips in the road (where both wheels impact at the same time) the ride is so jarring it is unbelieveable compared to the smooth ride over most surfaces. I have over 11,500km (7,200 miles) on the car now and this is the only notable issue that I have with the vehicle. While I agree that ride quality is subjective, I can only assume that owners that claim to have no ride issues have not yet experienced this particular combination of road surface conditions.

I don't think this is a matter of the suspension being too firm, it is a problem with the valving of the shocks and their ability to absorb short sharp ridge surfaces. It is almost as though the shocks have been replaced by fixed metal bars with no damping ability at all under these specific conditions. On related threads, some people have tried lowering the tire pressures and maybe putting some weight in the trunk but I hate the idea of dropping tire pressures as this will undoubtedly affect the handling and fuel economy.

If this problem was present in a Hyundai Accent I would expect owners to complain. In their top of the line luxury sedan it is indeed unacceptable and Hyundai need to find a solution.

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[Mark_888]

I don't think this is a matter of the suspension being too firm, it is a problem with the valving of the shocks and their ability to absorb short sharp ridge surfaces. It is almost as though the shocks have been replaced by fixed metal bars with no damping ability at all under these specific conditions.

In one of the oil change threads I posted a link that shows the spring/shock assembly on the V6 (which I assume is the same as the V8). I think the spring is just a little too tight and jittery.

It is interesting the picture looks different than the cutaway drawing on the Hyundai website (which is presumably what the Korean version looks like with no visible spring).

 

[keithl]

Unfortunatley the jittery ride is what is keeping me away now. I am so close to pulling trigger on a Genesis, btu the ride is not very compliant on lesst than ideal road surfaces. I think they will fix this in 10 or 11 as they won't have much choice. Think Audi 5000 acceleration, this bad reputation for their suspension will haunt them if not addressed right away.

 

[jwaters943]

Unfortunatley the jittery ride is what is keeping me away now. I am so close to pulling trigger on a Genesis, btu the ride is not very compliant on lesst than ideal road surfaces. I think they will fix this in 10 or 11 as they won't have much choice. Think Audi 5000 acceleration, this bad reputation for their suspension will haunt them if not addressed right away.

Mountains out of molehills my friend.

The poll we did a while back proved that most Genesis owners were happy with the ride of their Genesis. I happen to be one of them. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it less than ideal? Maybe. Is it "bad"? I certainly don't think so. It rides better than any car I've owned before, including my Range Rover 4.6SE, 3.2 TL, GS430 (damn runflat tires didn't help), 528i, and Passat.

Go drive a 300C or G8 and tell me with a straight face that they ride better. If you are expecting Lexus LS or MB S-Class ride quality, look elsewhere. FWIW, tires do make a difference. My Gen rides better on my 17" wheels w/ Dunlop WinterSport 3D snow tires than it did w/ the somwhat subpar (IMO) OEM Dunlops.

 

[CanukV6]

Unfortunatley the jittery ride is what is keeping me away now. I am so close to pulling trigger on a Genesis, btu the ride is not very compliant on lesst than ideal road surfaces.

To put this in perspective, I must say that for 95% of my driving the ride is OK and for 90% it is completely acceptable. Yes there is an issue but unless you encounter the 5% of surfaces that cause this problem on a regular basis, I would not let this stop you from acquiring an otherwise excellent automobile. As you can read in this (and related) Threads many contributors don't understand what the heck we are complaining about, which gives you an idea of how subjective the matter is and/or how infrequently people are experiencing the problem.

 

[Mark_888]

...As you can read in this (and related) Threads many contributors don't understand what the heck we are complaining about, which gives you an idea of how subjective the matter is and/or how infrequently people are experiencing the problem.

I think they know. They just think denile is a river in Africa.

 

[Mark_888]

To put this in perspective, I must say that for 95% of my driving the ride is OK and for 90% it is completely acceptable. Yes there is an issue but unless you encounter the 5% of surfaces that cause this problem on a regular basis, I would not let this stop you from acquiring an otherwise excellent automobile. As you can read in this (and related) Threads many contributors don't understand what the heck we are complaining about, which gives you an idea of how subjective the matter is and/or how infrequently people are experiencing the problem.

Let's put it in better perspective:

The editor-in-cheif of Car and Driver (probably more concerned about handling and less concerned about smooth ride than any other auto journalists) thinks that the Genesis has a softer ride than the BMW or Infiniti M, but also thinks the Genesis has a suspension issue and gets out of control sometimes. I posted the video review if you want to look.

 

[keithl]

Mountains out of molehills my friend.

The poll we did a while back proved that most Genesis owners were happy with the ride of their Genesis. I happen to be one of them. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it less than ideal? Maybe. Is it "bad"? I certainly don't think so. It rides better than any car I've owned before, including my Range Rover 4.6SE, 3.2 TL, GS430 (damn runflat tires didn't help), 528i, and Passat.

Go drive a 300C or G8 and tell me with a straight face that they ride better. If you are expecting Lexus LS or MB S-Class ride quality, look elsewhere. FWIW, tires do make a difference. My Gen rides better on my 17" wheels w/ Dunlop WinterSport 3D snow tires than it did w/ the somwhat subpar (IMO) OEM Dunlops.

I have owned a few Acura's and my 04, 06 and 07 TL beat the pants off the Genesis, maybe not quite as smooth, but far more compliant and handled abnormalities better.

 

[keithl]

Let's put it in better perspective:

The editor-in-cheif of Car and Driver (probably more concerned about handling and less concerned about smooth ride than any other auto journalists) thinks that the Genesis has a softer ride than the BMW or Infiniti M, but also thinks the Genesis has a suspension issue and gets out of control sometimes. I posted the video review if you want to look.

I saw the video and fully concur, I actually think they were being very polite to the Hyundai guy and trying to drop the hint very hard. They were trying to tell him, "hey very goood car, great 1.0 attempt, but you suspension has issues and if you want to play with and be compared to the big boys you need to fix it ASAP!"
The Hyundai guy said Infiniti M was a big target, well I never drove an M, but have beena rear seat passenger and the car handles far better than the V6 Tech Gen's I have driven.

 

[Mark_888]

I saw the video and fully concur, I actually think they were being very polite to the Hyundai guy...

Yes, apparently the editor-in-chief of Car and Driver was a friend of the Hyundai guy in the car.

 

[jwaters943]

Let's put it in better perspective:

The editor-in-cheif of Car and Driver (probably more concerned about handling and less concerned about smooth ride than any other auto journalists) thinks that the Genesis has a softer ride than the BMW or Infiniti M, but also thinks the Genesis has a suspension issue and gets out of control sometimes. I posted the video review if you want to look.

Really? A suspension issue that causes the Genesis to "get out of control sometimes"? That statement is hyperbole at it's finest IMO. There is huge a difference between the ride being somewhat unsettled and being "out of control".

From C&D's newly-published Road Test of the Genesis 3.8:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...2009_hyundai_genesis_3_8_short_take_road_test

"And consider this: The 3.8’s ride is as good as, if not better than, the 4.6’s. The V-6 not only experiences less suspension crash than the V-8 but feels lighter and more spry. That is most likely because the 3845-pound V-6 model weighs some 200-plus pounds less than the V-8 model."

Highs: Great ride, roomy interior, stitched leather on the dash.

Lows: Feels underpowered at full throttle, IRS won’t believe your claimed income.


Get the V6, upgrade the tires, and you're all set. The ride should appease all but the most demanding of buyers. Having switched to winter tires, I already know that the OEM tires are less than ideal if a smooth, comfortable ride are preferred.