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[Ernie3647]

OP-So horrible stories about your ex-car.
Early 2013, I had a chance to rent a 2013 G37 sedan for a week while I was on a business trip.
Then couple of weeks later I decided to rent the Genesis for the same amount of time only at a different location.
Needless to say I bought the Genesis.
The Infiniti just felt old, dated, small and slow.
BTW I'm an ex-Lexus owner.

FYI...In case you've not heard. Infiniti has either moved their corporate office from Japan to Hong Kong.
Why? It's trying to change its image and others from what I've heard and because, the Germans are slaughtering both the Infiniti and the Lexus (certain lines). Acura is very much on its last leg as well, not much of a competition.

Many people tend to compare the Infiniti G line to the Genesis. That’s obviously because of the cost factor. For the sake of fair comparisons it should be the Infiniti M that’s compared as their credentials are more closely alike. Yes I know the cost of the M is much higher but we should compare apples to apples and pears to pears. Value is one the attractions of the Genesis and that’s It’s triumph card.

 

[HEY GURL]

Your wife looks soooo HAPPY!! She's a lucky girl!! The car is awesome!

 

[Mark_888]

FYI...In case you've not heard. Infiniti has either moved their corporate office from Japan to Hong Kong.
Why? It's trying to change its image and others from what I've heard and because, the Germans are slaughtering both the Infiniti and the Lexus (certain lines). Acura is very much on its last leg as well, not much of a competition.

Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura are not going away since they are "relatively" small divisions of rather larger global auto manufacturing companies. They may go into hibernation, but they will probably not go away.

At the same time, they don't need to sell a huge number of cars in their luxury divisions to be successful, since many of their vehicles share designs/engineering/manufacturing with their much larger parent company and they obtain a cost advantage because of that. Infiniti has only very recently been sold under the Infiniti brand in Japan, where it previously sold as a Nissan Infiniti. In the past, many Infiniti's have been nearly identical to a related Nissan model, but I suspect they are trying to change that.

Acura was damaged by the TL styling fiasco a few years ago, but they still sell a lot of top-rated SUV's (which is now their top sellers). I think many auto companies are struggling right now to figure out if they need to make their offerings more exciting from a design point of view, but risk turning off the baby boomers, who still impact a large percentage of the luxury car market due to their numbers and their ability to purchase luxury cars.

 

[ksoze]

Of those three, Infiniti has shown promise. The name change for the G was confusing, but the Q50S is an appealing car - LED lighting, nice interior and very aggressive look on the S model. They appear to be pricing them aggressively also with nice leases.

 

[videopho]

Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura are not going away since they are "relatively" small divisions of rather larger global auto manufacturing companies. They may go into hibernation, but they will probably not go away.

At the same time, they don't need to sell a huge number of cars in their luxury divisions to be successful, since many of their vehicles share designs/engineering/manufacturing with their much larger parent company and they obtain a cost advantage because of that. Infiniti has only very recently been sold under the Infiniti brand in Japan, where it previously sold as a Nissan Infiniti. In the past, many Infiniti's have been nearly identical to a related Nissan model, but I suspect they are trying to change that.

Acura was damaged by the TL styling fiasco a few years ago, but they still sell a lot of top-rated SUV's (which is now their top sellers). I think many auto companies are struggling right now to figure out if they need to make their offerings more exciting from a design point of view, but risk turning off the baby boomers, who still impact a large percentage of the luxury car market due to their numbers and their ability to purchase luxury cars.

In the late 90's or so it was a matter of survival ability for the Germany car makers and now the table has turned side as the Japanese are struggling to compete with the German. Lack of innovation and creativity has hurt the Japanese as many of their models look old and outdated for the most part.
On a good weekend BMW has sold more of its 500 series than Acura sold its RL or RLx model in the entire year.
The Lexus now relies on the RX and ES sales to survive as the other lines are mightily struggling. e.g. IS, GS and even the LS460.
The brand royalty and baby boomers are basically keeping the Lexus sale alive and the younger well-to-do professionals have been buying Germans like mad.
I do not think Hyundai/KIA are quite ready to challenge both the German and Japanese but in this industry sitting idle is very much writing yourself a death certificate. Hint: Peugeot, Fiat, Renault, Mits, Suzuki. etc.

 

[Mark_888]

In the late 90's or so it was a matter of survival ability for the Germany car makers and now the table has turned side as the Japanese are struggling to compete with the German. Lack of innovation and creativity has hurt the Japanese as many of their models look old and outdated for the most part.

I think it is mostly because the Germans have been discounting their prices a lot more than before. Part of that may have to do with currency exchange rates.

On a good weekend BMW has sold more of its 500 series than Acura sold its RL or RLx model in the entire year.

The RL has never been a big seller and is only one the Acura models. Also, you are comparing BMW sales against Acura, when you should be comparing BMW sales against Honda sales for all their brands.

The Lexus now relies on the RX and ES sales to survive as the other lines are mightily struggling. e.g. IS, GS and even the LS460.

That has always been the case. The ES was always the bread and butter of Lexus sales, with RX also a good seller when cross-overs became popular.

The brand royalty and baby boomers are basically keeping the Lexus sale alive and the younger well-to-do professionals have been buying Germans like mad.

As long as Lexus remains reliable, and German cars are expensive to maintain, then the Lexus brand will survive. But keep in mind that Lexus is not a company, but just one brand of Toyota Motor Corp, the largest auto manufacturer in the world.

 

[YEH]

I previously owned a G35 coupe... And as I posted above my wife had the G35x sedan. Both were beautifully designed, with great engines, amazing stock exhaust note on the coupe, and great handling... and all this was ruined by HORRIBLE dealer service (not one but MULTIPLE), lies/deception right from the day of purchase, and some of the worst long term reliability of any cars that my wife and I have ever owned. It's a shame because my wife REALLY liked the steering feel of the G35 but we both have vowed to NEVER set in foot of another Infinti dealer again. Oh and the Navi systems were pretty bad too...

While I certainly wouldn't judge an automaker or dealer network based on a couple of bad apples, nor based on a car w/ numerous issues (possible to get a lemon w/ any make), at the same time, I can certainly understand how those experiences would alter your decision-making.

As for the G35 coupe - great design which still holds up today (the original G was better than the G37C which ruined the clean lines); the G35 sedan, otoh, was OK.

The G35C also drove well w/ the one major blemish being its chinzy interior (not really better than the interior of the Genesis coupe today).

With the new Q50 sedan, supposedly the new fly-by-wire system took a lot of the sport out of the new model (hear that the Q50S is better and that Infiniti is recalibrating the system).

I think it is mostly because the Germans have been discounting their prices a lot more than before. Part of that may have to do with currency exchange rates.

So have the Japanese due to the falling Yen.

More has to due w/ the proliferation of lower priced 4-banger models for the Germans.

Many buyers would rather get a German badge and opt for a 4-banger than get a V6 Japanese.

And now Cadillac is in the game big time and buyers have another option (not to mention Hyundai/Kia).

The RL has never been a big seller and is only one the Acura models. Also, you are comparing BMW sales against Acura, when you should be comparing BMW sales against Honda sales for all their brands.

Why?

When it comes to Hyundai, would compare Genesis sedan sales to the 5 Series, etc. and not Hyundai vs. BMW as a whole.

That has always been the case. The ES was always the bread and butter of Lexus sales, with RX also a good seller when cross-overs became popular.

But it's even more so the case now.

The GS/LS used to sell as much as 60k together - far more than what Audi did w/ the A6/A8.

Nowadays, the A6 outsells the GS.

And FWD sales have increasingly made up Lexus sales and that will only increase w/ the addition of the NX.

As long as Lexus remains reliable, and German cars are expensive to maintain, then the Lexus brand will survive. But keep in mind that Lexus is not a company, but just one brand of Toyota Motor Corp, the largest auto manufacturer in the world.

Sure, Lexus will survive, but it's surviving on sales of its FWD models.

Akio Toyoda had to be talked out of canceling the GS and they have been very slow to replace the aged LS460 (opting for a 2nd, more significant refresh over a new gen model).

Toyota is trying to squeeze every penny from that platform and powertrain (the 4.6 V8 in the LS460 is horribly outclassed).

 

[Mark_888]

Why?

When it comes to Hyundai, would compare Genesis sedan sales to the 5 Series, etc. and not Hyundai vs. BMW as a whole.

Motegi was suggesting that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti were headed toward extinction. My point is that these companies are backed by much larger auto companies (some of the largest in the world) and their luxury brands share design/engineering/manufacturing with their parent company. So the Japanese luxury brands are very unlikely to go out of business even if their sales shrink compared to BMW or MB.

Same with Hyundai luxury cars. Even if Genesis/Equus sales shrunk significantly (just hypothetically), those models would not disappear.

 

[Mark_888]

Toyota is trying to squeeze every penny from that platform and powertrain (the 4.6 V8 in the LS460 is horribly outclassed).

Oh yes, the horror, the horror. I pity the fools who buy a LS460 and don't get to spend all their spare time in a MB service waiting room with that great coffee and free snacks they have there.

 

[Motegi]

Motegi was suggesting that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti were headed toward extinction. My point is that these companies are backed by much larger auto companies (some of the largest in the world) and their luxury brands share design/engineering/manufacturing with their parent company. So the Japanese luxury brands are very unlikely to go out of business even if their sales shrink compared to BMW or MB.

Same with Hyundai luxury cars. Even if Genesis/Equus sales shrunk significantly (just hypothetically), those models would not disappear.

Actually that was "videophone"s prediction and not mine.

I think that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti will survive.

I've been a long time Acura enthusiast and before the G35 coupe had 4 prior Acuras. We in fact have 4 Acuras in the garage now... RL SHAWD, MDX, NSX, and a 2nd Gen Legend. The problem with Acura is that they have almost no sedans to sell at the moment. The TSX and TL production ended and the supply chain depleted. The new 2015 TLX was supposed to be available in May but was suddenly delayed with no release date in place and only a vague "late summer" announcement. There aren't many RLXs available as they are not a strong seller so many dealers don't keep them on hand. If you go to a dealer they pretty much have just the ILX compact and the SUVs (MDX, RDX).

While I certainly wouldn't judge an automaker or dealer network based on a couple of bad apples, nor based on a car w/ numerous issues (possible to get a lemon w/ any make), at the same time, I can certainly understand how those experiences would alter your decision-making.

I understand. But our issues with Infiniti did not pertain to just one car but TWO (my coupe and my wife's sedan).

Likewise it was not one dealer but THREE.

Infiniti Corporate Customer Servicwe was good but as owners you don't deal with them on a regular basis. The brand is represented by the local dealers.

Back to the original subject, my wife and I continue to be impressed with her 2nd gen Genesis. The features and quality far exceed its price.

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[gen15]

My experience with Infiniti was the opposite - my dealer provided the best dealership experience I ever had with our '08 G35Xs and the reliability was first rate. It was better than the BMW dealership experience I had at the same time.

Ditto for me. I owned a 2003 G35 Coupe (no issues and great dealership/service experience). My wife purchased a 2014 QX60 last month. Great dealer experience sale and post sale. Obviously too early to tell on reliability, but I have high expectations.

I'll be honest and say some of the Hyundai dealers I've visited have made me cringe. Flashing blue-light special type of atmosphere with greasy haired sales people I didn't feel comfortable giving my phone number to. I really hope Hyundai improves in this area (I'm a big fan of their company and amazing progress they've made so far).

 

[YEH]

Motegi was suggesting that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti were headed toward extinction. My point is that these companies are backed by much larger auto companies (some of the largest in the world) and their luxury brands share design/engineering/manufacturing with their parent company. So the Japanese luxury brands are very unlikely to go out of business even if their sales shrink compared to BMW or MB.

Same with Hyundai luxury cars. Even if Genesis/Equus sales shrunk significantly (just hypothetically), those models would not disappear.

Ghosn seriously considered doing away w/ the Infiniti brand altogether.

And when it comes to Japanese luxury RWD sales, they have been in a drastic decline.

Anyway, the WHY was in regards to comparing all of Honda/Acura sales to that of BMW.

Oh yes, the horror, the horror. I pity the fools who buy a LS460 and don't get to spend all their spare time in a MB service waiting room with that great coffee and free snacks they have there.

Lexus dealerships does the same, if not more w/ coffee and snacks.

The point is that an automaker that is the largest in the world and a brand that like to tout it's amazing engineering/pursuit of perfection - shouldn't be trying to pinch pennies when the competition has been going full throttle.

At the time of the 2nd refresh for the LS460, it was already behind the competition (esp. w/ regard to powertrain w/ the basically the same 4.6L V8) and is even more so now.

That should not happen to an automaker w/ the resources of Toyota.

I understand. But our issues with Infiniti did not pertain to just one car but TWO (my coupe and my wife's sedan).

Likewise it was not one dealer but THREE.

Infiniti Corporate Customer Servicwe was good but as owners you don't deal with them on a regular basis. The brand is represented by the local dealers.

Back to the original subject, my wife and I continue to be impressed with her 2nd gen Genesis. The features and quality far exceed its price.

Gotcha - but I would still count the 2 Infinitis having issues as bad luck, tho the bad dealerships experiences is a bit unusual.

But as I stated, I certainly understand why you felt what you did; even if I try to be objective about these things, it certainly would weigh on me as well.