Expectations for '16 and beyond

[parpi]

Specifications really do vary from market to market, Middle East version is missing blue link and only gets Lane departure warning vs Lane keep assist, no side curtains. But we do get rear seat multimedia controls, soft closing doors, 19 inch wheels, co2 sensor and panoramic sunroof on even Base versions as well as surround view cam on all but Base. Although in this part of the world I could have done without the panoramic roof. What I would have really liked to see on our version is the KDM headlights, I find them more attractive with the dual projectors.

 

[roblaw]

Plenty of cars get bigger and do not gain 400+ lbs in weight. The probakm here is Hyundai decided to not leverage alternate weight reducing technologies. Some of said due to the parent companies steel business. While I can believe that one would think that even though they would realize they do not sell these cars Ina a vacuum and need to compete. Weight costs fuel, and someone looking at Genesis is already looking at value and the MPG numbers of these cars are trailing virtually all the competitors. That may impact some buyers. It also has a negative impact on handling.

You make a very valid point. I like the new Genesis very much and I would definitely have it as one of my top choices if only MSRP was the issue. There are a lot of great features for the buck. However, two facts skew the value proposition: 1. the poor fuel economy is like a hit of $40-60 per month on your monthly payment as compared to other medium luxury cars that have much better fuel economy, and 2. the poor resale value make leasing much more expensive and many people in this market lease their vehicles. With (at least) MB really giving strong lease deals, you can get an E350 for the same or a lower lease price (for admittedly a less equipped vehicle).

So unless you do primarily highway driving and plan to buy the car and keep it till it is dead (where the expected reliability and overall lower maintenance costs make a difference compared to an MB or BMW) the value proposition is not as strong as it could be.

 

[roblaw]

That being said, I think Hyundai needs to get a higher torque engine to improve fuel economy. A 3 litre twin turbo is where everyone else is going and it would probably improve fuel economy by using the superior low end torque to move the heavy car off the line. They are not going to be able to address the weight problem in any significant way for this generation so they are stuck with 4100 +lbs cars for the foreseeable future.

 

[keithl]

You have to give it to the Germans and Ford, they realized that the good way to better MPG and to make up for shrinking engine displacement is forced induction. The added benefit of forced induction is usually more torque at lower RPMS. My lat 3 cars were all 300HP + cars, with my Infiniti being 330 HP, yet my A6 with the smallest engine (3.0) has a Supercharger and this thing is a rocket. The torque come on at low RPMS and the car just pulls effortlessly without having to get int the throttle. The car still delivers respectable MPG 18/26 for 310HP AWD compared to the 15 AWD Genesis of 16/25. The Genesis also weighs about 100-200 lbs more than my A6. True the Genesis can use regular and my A6 needs Premium, but the fuel costs for me would be a wash.

 

[Ernie3647]

I think you guys are missing the point here. You’re thinking sport sedan, performance benefits, MPG benefits and so on. Until an R Spec version of the new Genesis comes out what Hyundai has engineered and brought to market is an exceptional luxury car. They apparently were not looking to compete in the fiercely competitive sport sedan market instead focusing on a luxury car with competent attributes. In my opinion objective achieved. All the lessons learned from 2009 to 2014 have produced a car that if you ask anyone that owns one will agree is a car worthy of its price tag. Until the R Spec version makes its debut as I said before anyone looking for a hard edged sport sedan should be looking elsewhere.

 

[Mark_888]

I think you guys are missing the point here. You’re thinking sport sedan, performance benefits, MPG benefits and so on. Until an R Spec version of the new Genesis comes out what Hyundai has engineered and brought to market is an exceptional luxury car. They apparently were not looking to compete in the fiercely competitive sport sedan market instead focusing on a luxury car with competent attributes. In my opinion objective achieved. All the lessons learned from 2009 to 2014 have produced a car that if you ask anyone that owns one will agree is a car worthy of its price tag. Until the R Spec version makes its debut as I said before anyone looking for a hard edged sport sedan should be looking elsewhere.

I think that is one reason John Krafcik is no longer CEO of HMA. Hyundai Korea got tired of his sports sedan wet dreams and wanted Genesis to be a luxury car.

 

[ksoze]

They apparently were not looking to compete in the fiercely competitive sport sedan market instead focusing on a luxury car with competent attributes. In my opinion objective achieved. All the lessons learned from 2009 to 2014 have produced a car that if you ask anyone that owns one will agree is a car worthy of its price tag.

Overall I agree, however some misses for a top tier luxury car include lack of soft close doors, remote key car settings, surround camera view and V8 AWD.

 

[Mark_888]

Overall I agree, however some misses for a top tier luxury car include lack of soft close doors, remote key car settings, surround camera view and V8 AWD.

That would just raise the price up even closer to MB and BMW. The AWD V8 is going to be a problem because of the pitiful MPG it gets.

 

[ksoze]

Unfortunately, it is sometimes those little touches that are expected and win over luxury buyers. I would trade a CO2 sensor for one of those features which can be found on less expensive cars. When you take the time to offer a no hands or foot remote trunk, one then expects a remote with user settings and other owner focused features.

 

[ShadowZ]

The Accord "surround view" is nothing like what my BMW has. The Accord is just a right side view designed for lane change to the right while driving at speed. The BMW is for parking and shows the ground all around the car, plus it can show looking both directions from the front bumper for pulling out of a blind driveway.

So does a Nissan Rogue and Pathfinder. not sure if they offer it on the Maxima or not.

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[YEH]

Plenty of cars get bigger and do not gain 400+ lbs in weight. The probakm here is Hyundai decided to not leverage alternate weight reducing technologies. Some of said due to the parent companies steel business. While I can believe that one would think that even though they would realize they do not sell these cars Ina a vacuum and need to compete. Weight costs fuel, and someone looking at Genesis is already looking at value and the MPG numbers of these cars are trailing virtually all the competitors.

At the same time, weight-saving materials (aluminum and carbon fiber) costs $$ (as well as higher insurance premiums) - so maybe Hyundai was smart for looking to keep costs (including ownership costs) down for now (people are already whining about the higher price of the 2G Genesis - imagine the whining if Hyundai had to add another few thousand to the MSRP).

That being said, I think Hyundai needs to get a higher torque engine to improve fuel economy. A 3 litre twin turbo is where everyone else is going and it would probably improve fuel economy by using the superior low end torque to move the heavy car off the line. They are not going to be able to address the weight problem in any significant way for this generation so they are stuck with 4100 +lbs cars for the foreseeable future.

The 3.3L TT should be here by the MCE, maybe before.

I think you guys are missing the point here. You’re thinking sport sedan, performance benefits, MPG benefits and so on. Until an R Spec version of the new Genesis comes out what Hyundai has engineered and brought to market is an exceptional luxury car. They apparently were not looking to compete in the fiercely competitive sport sedan market instead focusing on a luxury car with competent attributes. In my opinion objective achieved. All the lessons learned from 2009 to 2014 have produced a car that if you ask anyone that owns one will agree is a car worthy of its price tag. Until the R Spec version makes its debut as I said before anyone looking for a hard edged sport sedan should be looking elsewhere.

Maybe Hyundai will look to cut weight w/ aluminum or carbon fiber bits, but I'm thinking that Hyundai should save that for the 3G performance model, otherwise, the pricing would get too high.

I think that is one reason John Krafcik is no longer CEO of HMA. Hyundai Korea got tired of his sports sedan wet dreams and wanted Genesis to be a luxury car.

I don't know about that.

Under Krafcik, USDM Hyundais had a near absence of steering feedback/feel - which is improved with the new Genesis and Sonata.

That would just raise the price up even closer to MB and BMW. The AWD V8 is going to be a problem because of the pitiful MPG it gets.

Not really since all those things cost about the same to develop/add-on, except the Germans charge a lot more for them.

Comparably equipped, the Genesis would retain its pricing advantage.

Going forward to the 3G Genesis - I'd like to see more appealing sheetmetal and interior/dash designs, along w/ reduced weight.

For the 2G, aside from the additions of the 3.3TT and 10 spd AT, would like to see the touch-points (door releases, gear paddles) which are currently metallic-painted plastic changed to metal and the knobs have a more solid feel to them.

 

[Mark_888]

Going forward to the 3G Genesis - I'd like to see more appealing sheetmetal and interior/dash designs, along w/ reduced weight.

For the 2G, aside from the additions of the 3.3TT and 10 spd AT, would like to see the touch-points (door releases, gear paddles) which are currently metallic-painted plastic changed to metal and the knobs have a more solid feel to them.

Why do you care, since you have never purchased a Genesis and have no intention of doing so?

 

[Mark_888]

I don't know about that.

Under Krafcik, USDM Hyundais had a near absence of steering feedback/feel - which is improved with the new Genesis and Sonata.

Krafcik did not design the cars, only market them. He was able to "stiffen" up the KDM Genesis for the North American market, but that did not turn out so well. I am sure he was continually beating up the Korean designers to make the Genesis a real sports sedan, but they eventually got tired of listening to him.

 

[YEH]

^ True, but the suspension and steering calibration is done differently for different markets.

The Sonata drives differently depending on being a KDM, NA, EU, Aussie, etc. model due to region-specific tuning.

And by most accounts, the 2G Genesis turns into corners better than the 1G (and yeah, I'm sure the Korean engineers/management got so tired of Krafcik's heckling, that they not only tested the 2G Genesis thoroughly at the Ring, but Hyundai built a $7.4 million testing center at the Ring in 2013).

 

[ksoze]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...-in-performance-oriented-rendering-84132.html

 

[YEH]

Why do you care, since you have never purchased a Genesis and have no intention of doing so?

This same old/tired diatribe again?

No wonder you come off as you do.

And since you don't own a 2G Genesis, shouldn't you follow your own guidelines and not post in the 2G section?

 

[Mark_888]

This same old/tired diatribe again?

No wonder you come off as you do.

And since you don't own a 2G Genesis, shouldn't you follow your own guidelines and not post in the 2G section?

Not a diatribe. Just curious as to why you care. Do you have "wishes" for all manufacturers cars that you don't own (and apparently don't plan to own), or just Hyundai?

I am definitely interested in the 2G Genesis, but I only have 48,000 miles on my current Genesis (which has been meticulously maintained), so I will probably wait awhile. Also hoping for some minor styling improvements in the mid-cycle refresh in a couple of years.

 

[Aquineas]

<snip>
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...-in-performance-oriented-rendering-84132.html

I was wondering why the thread page was so wide, and now I know .
That being said, that does look gorgeous, more sports sedan and less luxury sedan. I probably wouldn't spring for it; for as much as I hate to admit it, what I want is a luxury sedan that goes fast, not necessarily a sports sedan. I don't even want to think about how those ultra-low profile tires are going to feel on a road that's not mirror smooth.

 

[ilovemygenesis]

OK, I know that we're barely halfway through 2014 and that we probably won't hear much about the 2016 Genesis for another year or so. But I'm interested in hearing what y'all think Hyundai might do with the second generation Genny as they try to maintain separation from the Equus.

Some early articles about the '15 Genesis described features that didn't make it to the North American version:

• Surround camera view
• Self parking
• Rear seat entertainment controls

Of the above three, the one I care about most is the all-around camera view, though I'd consider the others if they were available. IIRC, the KDM first generation was much more expensive than the North American Genesis and included options that never were offered here. However, my guess is that Hyundai is going to be compelled to add features sooner rather than later as non-luxury competitors like Ford, Honda, and others offer them.

i would love to see the following:

1. Improved ass im a booty fan and the 2015 is seriously lacking,lol
2. Improved infotainment system similar to sync
3. WIfi available in the car, i saw a commercial where someone is offering it (don't remember who).
4. Improved MPG is a must.

 

[YEH]

Not a diatribe. Just curious as to why you care. Do you have "wishes" for all manufacturers cars that you don't own (and apparently don't plan to own), or just Hyundai?

Not a diatribe and yet you continually bring it up despite it having been already addressed (and really, why do you care so much?).

And yes, I do make similar remarks about other auto manufacturers about the issues they need to address on particular models, as well as their overall product strategy.