Support for suspension issues

[moose66]

Quick question you may have already addressed . . . . . have you hooked up with another Genesis owner in your area for a swap test drive? Meaning you drive their Hyundai G and they drive yours? Just to see if you are very sensative to the "normal" ride of the Hyundai G, whereas another owner may think the ride is okay. Although it is quite obvious you have a problem in your opinion, I am just wondering what someone else (not a friend, not someone affiliated with Hyundai) with a "normal riding G" would think in your car.

 

[njohnson]

Good idea, or both of you drive on the exact same road at the same time to judge conditions.

 

[doug725]

Yes - have done that with others. I'm aware that there are those who experience the ride characteristics and like it/and or at the least tolerate it. I did notice that other cars - the V8 in particular have what I consider excessive floatiness and motion, but not the same level of constant nervous pitching as mine. Having also driven the '09 Sonata and Sante Fe today I can say they exhibit some of the same ride characteristics on the roads here as the Genny. It's not quite as extreme or annoying, but still present. Actually the 2009 Sante Fe rides worse than my 2002.5 did. Drove the Mercury Milan today and the Nissan Murano - both drove fine over these roads - especially the Milan. Also am driving the M35 today on extended test. It's like night and day compared to the Genny. IMO suspensions are the weak link in the Hyundai lineup. You often hear it described as suspension clunk or noise, etc. The Azera had ongoing suspension issue - though I am not aware of the extent.

 

[bilmat]

Thought I might jump into the fray: I've been following your postings both here and lately on the Edmunds Genesis forum (presuming that it's you), and you have my sympathies.

When I first took delivery of my 4.6 in mid-January I was a little surprised by how firm the ride was. The test drive I took before buying was relatively short and on a well paved boulevard; I never bothered to take it out on a freeway as I was too enamored with the vehicle to care. On the way home after purchasing the car, however, I became well aware of the stiff suspension when I hit a 500-foot-long rough section of freeway, and it surprised me.

The first weekend I had the car I took a 250-mile round-trip drive from the Bay Area to the Sierra foothills to visit a cousin. Roughly half was on the interstate, the other half on what motorcyclists refer to as the "twisties" (rural roads with lots of twists and turns). I have since put an additional 700 miles on the car.

Looking back, I've come to the conclusion that the ride I had become accustomed to in my '06 Acura MDX over the past couple of years prior to buying the Genesis spoiled me as the MDX does an excellent job of smoothing out rough roads. But it's nothing I would want to drive aggressively on mountain roads.

It has taken me almost 1,000 miles, but I have now become accustomed to the firm ride of my 4.6 — and I like it. I will admit, however, that if I hit a pothole-like bump I didn't see coming, the jarring certainly gets my attention. But at no time have I ever experienced anything I would describe as "floating," "bouncing" or "pitching." And I can't imagine knowingly driving over something so rough that it could cause me to "lose control."

No one else may call the Genesis a sports sedan, but by the way it handles in the "twisties" with its flat cornering has me convinced it is. To me, it feels very similar to a buddy's 5 series BMW that I have spent many a mile in.

While I wasn't overjoyed by the firmness of the Genesis at first, I have come to love it. Now when I drive the MDX, I almost feel like I'm cruising down the road in a '60s era Buick or Cadillac. If you are old enough to remember what they were like, you will recall that they were akin to ocean-going barges compared to the cars of today.

It's a shame there aren't a couple of other Genesis owners on this forum who live close to you as I would like to hear what they would have to say about how your car rides and handles if you were in a position to take them for a spin. Seems like that would answer the question as to whether your particular car is unique, or that your needs and expectations about the Genesis were. In any case, I wish you the best of luck. And again, you have my sympathies.

 

[ImInPA]

doug725. I have followed your posts and believe it or not, your experience is one of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger on a Genesis yet. I must say though that your post above that states that you went and tried two other Genesis that exhibited the exact same characteristics makes me wonder one thing: If every Genesis you have tried does the exact same thing, on virtually every road, how did this vehicle pass your muster during the pre-sale test drive? I truly sympathize with you because I know how it is to be disappointed in such a purchase.

For the record, most cars lose 20% during their first year (or even more) if you are looking for trade-in. whether that first year is 365 days or two weeks. You could probably do much better selling it outright yourself. I think it is disingenuous on your part to imply that your car lost that much in two weeks and 700 miles as though this is something unique to the Genesis. It will likely be worth that a year from now an 12K more miles. The biggest hit with any car is the day you drive it off of the lot.

While I feel your pain, I think you either need to get over it or get rid of it. While the 26K you have been quoted for trade-in is steep, your health and mental well being is worth much more than that. You are worth it...yes? Go get that Maxima that seemed to make you smile. Life is just to damn short to torture one's self over something like a car....or...go to a suspension shop and see if they can't get you some softer springs and adjustable air-shocks and see if that doesn't put a smile on your face. There is no way that shocks and springs can void your warranty. There are laws that protect the aftermarket suppliers and the consumer.

You need treat yourself to a car that brings back the joy of the "new car smell" and lose this one that you are embarrassed to be in. Take care of yourself.

 

[Mark_888]

Now when I drive the MDX, I almost feel like I'm cruising down the road in a '60s era Buick or Cadillac. If you are old enough to remember what they were like, you will recall that they were akin to ocean-going barges compared to the cars of today.

The 60's era Buick or Cadillac's may have been akin to ocean-going barges compared to cars of today, but they had terrible handling and cornering characteristics. It is possible to design a suspension that handles just as well as the current Genesis, and has a firm ride, but does not have some of the undesirable characteristics that many have complained about. Car and Driver pointed out that the Infiniti M has a firmer ride than the Genesis, but does not loose control on rough roads.

I also think that it may not only be a case of becoming accustomed to the Genesis ride, rather it does appear that the ride gets better after about 1000 miles (your mileage may vary). But it still can definitely be improved without loosing any of its firm character, as Hyundai has apparently already done for the 2010 Genesis suspension.

 

[Mark_888]

While I feel your pain, I think you either need to get over it or get rid of it.

There is another option. Hyundai has heard a lot of complaints from the media and from owners about the suspension, and they have modified the 2010 version accordingly. I don't think the changes are major, but just enough to fix what was wrong.

Given the above, it might be best to wait and see what changes Hyundai comes up with, and determine if they can be retrofitted to the 2009 model, before going out on one's own with some other custom solution. It may even be possible that Hyundai could provide such changes to 2009 owners before the 2010 ships (but maybe I am just delusional about that).

 

[ImInPA]

There is another option. Hyundai has heard a lot of complaints from the media and from owners about the suspension, and they have modified the 2010 version accordingly. I don't think the changes are major, but just enough to fix what was wrong.

Given the above, it might be best to wait and see what changes Hyundai comes up with, and determine if they can be retrofitted to the 2009 model, before going out on one's own with some other custom solution. It may even be possible that Hyundai could provide such changes to 2009 owners before the 2010 ships (but maybe I am just delusional about that).

Mark_888: If it was me, I would certainly wait and see what Hyundai may do. While you are correct that many magazines have panned the Genesis's handling as a sport sedan when compared with other sport sedans, no magazine or review have sited the Genesis's suspension as anything but fantastic when taken as a pure luxury sedan. In fact many have pegged is as somewhere between an LS460 and the Infinity M. None have described it as bad as some here have suggested.

With regards to doug, his Genesis is making his legs go numb and making him physically ill. I can only guess what his emotional and mental disappointment must be. In his case, every minute behind the wheel is pure hell. Sometimes it is better to cut one's losses short when something makes you obsess. I stand by what I said to him...get over it or get rid of it.

 

[BMWorGenny]

Great discussion. Like many others have said, I took a short test drive in a 3.8L Genny (around the Greece, NY Hyundai dealership a few weeks ago). I didn’t find any problems with the suspension but was on strictly smooth, straight roads. With my wife in the front and the total-lack-of-any-Genny-knowledge salesman in the backseat, I didn't have much of a chance to evaluate the suspension but fell in love with the car for lots of good reasons – the size, styling, features, fit/finish, power, and promise of handling.

Since then, I’ve driven my 2006 BMW 530xi, my 2005 Infiniti G35 coupe, and my 1998 Ford ranger. I’ve also test driven a 2009 VW CC 3.6L 4motion, a 2009 BMW 528xi, and a 2009 Mazda6 V6. The CC was hot, and though the steering wheel had play, it stuck to the road amazingly well and had very little sway or roll in the curves. The 528xi handled great and the car is strong in most respects but lacked the power of the other cars. The Mazda is a great looker, well appointed for the price (sticker < $31000) but FWD was tough to handle -- very little torque steer but wheels spin easily on acceleration in turns.

After that, I was still very interested in a Genny so I went to a different dealership and met a very good salesman (Glen). I took out a 4.6L with ~250 miles on it on my own. It was amazing on the inner-city highway with speed limit of 65 mph (I-390, Henrietta, NY), superb in curves and in a large, uninhabited cul-de-sac (Paychex, Henrietta, NY). The car has a nice, stiff ride (as does the BMW and even more so, the Infiniti) – just what I am looking for.

What was really amazing, though, was the ride on the very rough, 35 mph West Henrietta Road. I wouldn’t have believed it had I not had some hints of a potential suspension problem. I clearly was experiencing a very high-frequency oscillation within the cabin that continued for over ½ mile before stopping for a traffic light. The same feeling resumed once I reached 25 mph or so after the light. I had sort of a car-sick feeling from a hyper-excited vestibular system. The oscillation was considerably faster (higher in frequency) than the bounce of the car over the rough road, and I was dizzy much like cracking a window in my BMW just the wrong amount (~3 inches) which results in a terrible buffeting. As an aside, the worst air-generated buffeting I’ve ever experienced was in an Audi A6 with the sunroof open at about 35 mph. Anyway, I can see how some folks might not experience what I felt and there may be other ride issues that I did not experience in my 20 minute drive. I went back to the salesman and told him what I liked and disliked. He didn’t appear to be surprised by what I reported. He noted that many folks who had or may test drive the Genny might not be sensitive to that sort of ride. I really hope that for the 2010 models, they tune that frequency out. Otherwise, the car seems nearly perfect - and what a deal for the price. In the mean time, I’ll get another car and have to wait for factory tuning before I get a Genny.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark_888: If it was me, I would certainly wait and see what Hyundai may do. While you are correct that many magazines have panned the Genesis's handling as a sport sedan when compared with other sport sedans, no magazine or review have sited the Genesis's suspension as anything but fantastic when taken as a pure luxury sedan. In fact many have pegged is as somewhere between an LS460 and the Infinity M. None have described it as bad as some here have suggested.

I am not sure I agree with your characterization of various reviews of the Genesis suspension in the automotive press.

The Car and Driver video review (link posted several times in this forum) praised the car overall, but noted that cars with a firmer suspension (Infiniti M and BMW 5) had better control on rough roads:

"...the control kind of went away a little bit on the back rounds, it was not as tied down, certainly as a BMW is, and it is an area where I think the car can do better..."​

Bloomberg said this:

"The biggest issue is a serious one: The suspension is simply not as good as its competitors. There&#8217;s too much up-and-down sway while absorbing bumps. A rear-seat passenger pronounces the ride &#8220;comfortable but bouncy.&#8221;
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a80ppMmRA9KI​

Consumers Reports, despite giving the Genesis the highest rating in its class, said the ride is "unsettled."

I don't think that it is as simple as there being a straight line continuum between the firmness of the ride and how well the suspension remains in control. In fact, a soft suspension can have less control than a firm one. You may feel a bump more abruptly with stiff springs and/or shock absorbers, but you should not feel anything beyond that first bump because the stiffer suspension should maintain better control. The Genesis seems to keep on bouncing around in certain situations.

Anyway, I don't want to beat this to death (even though I probably have already) and I still think the Genesis is a great car, I just think it can be made even better (and quite easily). Hyundai has apparently made some changes for 2010 that they are satisfied with, and hopefully 2009 owners will at least have a choice if they want those changes retrofitted (albeit at owners expense).

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[Mark_888]

I really hope that for the 2010 models, they tune that frequency out. Otherwise, the car seems nearly perfect - and what a deal for the price. In the mean time, I’ll get another car and have to wait for factory tuning before I get a Genny.

I think your analysis of there being some sort of frequency anomaly in the Genesis suspension that only comes to light on certain roads is correct.

With regard to 2010, you may want to check this thread out:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=1788

 

[hawker]

Are the 2010 Coupes updated with the suspension mod's?

 

[ImInPA]

mark: I certainly respect your right to disagree with my readings of the various reviews. To me, comments like "the car can do better" or "control went away a little bit" are a long way from the "ride becomes unsafe and sickening causing my legs to go numb." Perhaps the latter is what they really meant to say, however, none of them have gone anywhere near the extremes mentioned in this thread. About the only car(s) that reviewers seem to have little complaints on with regards to handling are all BMWs. Consumer Reports, which generally has been tough on suspension issues since the fabled "Unsafe at any Speed" report on the chevy corvair, even rated the Genesis a little above mid-pack. I use the reviews as a guide not as a gospel. In any event, this issue, along with various electronic gremlins I have been following here are the reasons why I do not have a Genesis. It is a shame that in the car business, a few bad apples really can spoil the whole bunch. I really like the car itself, however, for a couple grand extra, I may wait until the 2010s come out and buy a new 2009 BMW 5. It is just not realistic for me to buy a car wondering if I test drove it over the "right" combination of roads to reveal a horrible flaw.

 

[doug725]

Intersting insigts and disucssions. I'm still shopping - driven a lot of cars. Nothing thrills me like the Genesis did of course. Everything else I might want to lease or purchase seems to be a 2010 deal and not out yet!

 

[doug725]

BTW - Found something today in the Motor Trend blog that perfectly describes and analyizes the ride issue:

2009 Hyundai Genesis: A Car Detroit Can Now Only Dream of Building?
Posted Yesterday 12:53 PM by Angus MacKenzie

"What cost the Genesis the COTY title was detail stuff, like the overwrought grille, the limited rearward travel of the front seats, and a ride that was deemed too jittery for a luxury car.

It wasn't until I was idling through my local shopping mall parking lot that the likely cause of the Genesis' ride problem revealed itself over a couple of speed bumps -- the rear springs and shocks are way too stiff. I suspect Hyundai's engineers opted for the stiffer rear end in a bid to reduce the pronounced understeer noted by a number of Korean journalists driving their more softly sprung domestic market versions of the car. Whatever the reason, they've overcooked it -- you feel the Genesis' rear end pogoing on L.A.'s thumpety-thump freeways, and jiggling around almost everywhere else. It needs more compliance and better rebound control.

 

[Mark_888]

mark: I certainly respect your right to disagree with my readings of the various reviews. To me, comments like "the car can do better" or "control went away a little bit" are a long way from the "ride becomes unsafe and sickening causing my legs to go numb." Perhaps the latter is what they really meant to say, however, none of them have gone anywhere near the extremes mentioned in this thread. About the only car(s) that reviewers seem to have little complaints on with regards to handling are all BMWs. Consumer Reports, which generally has been tough on suspension issues since the fabled "Unsafe at any Speed" report on the chevy corvair, even rated the Genesis a little above mid-pack. I use the reviews as a guide not as a gospel. In any event, this issue, along with various electronic gremlins I have been following here are the reasons why I do not have a Genesis. It is a shame that in the car business, a few bad apples really can spoil the whole bunch. I really like the car itself, however, for a couple grand extra, I may wait until the 2010s come out and buy a new 2009 BMW 5. It is just not realistic for me to buy a car wondering if I test drove it over the "right" combination of roads to reveal a horrible flaw.

I don't think I am mis-characterizing the reviews in the automotive press. I think Car and Driver was fairly critical of the Genesis suspension, especially since the comment was made face-to-face on video to the now acting President of HMA, and the Car and Driver editor-in-chief (at the time) who said that was a friend of his. Did you even watch the video review?

With regard to Consumer Reports and their previous safety concerns, I don't think that safety and comfort are always related. The suspension can be "unsettled" and not very pleasant, but still be perfectly safe. Just because it is safe does not mean it is entirely satisfactory.

I have never claimed that "ride becomes unsafe and sickening causing my legs to go numb." That was someone else. It may be unsafe on a really horrible road, but I have not found it to be unsafe on any roads I have driven. But even supposing that the claims about it being unsafe are not accurate, that doesn't make the suspension issue a minor one for someone who just spent a lot of money on the purchase of a brand new car. I would place the issue somewhere between minor and major, and say that it is a moderate concern (IMO) in terms of enjoyment of the car and its resale value. Obviously, each person has their own opinion on this matter, and how significant the issue is.

But the good news is that Hyundai is interested in what customers are saying, and they have (apparently) responded with changes to the 2010 model. Now all that is remaining is to figure out how 2009 owners can get the same adjustments made to their cars (for those who would like to).

 

[ImInPA]

mark: I never implied you made any of the comments or mis-characterized anything. I only shared with you my interpretations of the same articles. I only referenced what I believe to be rather extreme comments made here by and was simply stating that I have not seen anything mentioned anywhwere in the automotive press that approaches (not even remotely) the extremes mentioned here. Like I also said, what I have read here has given me pause in purchasing a Genesis. Perhaps maybe enough pause that I will file Hyundai back to the discount rack.

I have read one post (was it by you) that claims Hyundai is "making changes" for 2010. This is all well and good if it happen; however, if there were truly enough complaints about it, my experience says it will be out before 2009. I had an issue with an early four-wheel-steering prelude many years ago. It really sucked. An "insider" at Honda (just to make me feel better I now believe) told me of numerous changes that were coming to address my issues. None ever did, and Honda discontinued the four-wheel-steering.

Unitl I see a TSB or something in writing with regards to suspension setup changes specifically to improve the ride, I will leave that filed under "Rumors I hope are true."

 

[doug725]

Mark - your insights and comments are always incisive and well reasoned/presented.

I am the one who made the above comment about potentially unsafe, etc. Maybe a bit dramatic, but I have felt that way on one or two occasions on route 355 in particular - surrounded by trucks, bouncing along the road excessively all the while buffeted by wind. Whether it is actually unsafe I can't say, but it was disconcerting for sure.

 

[Mark_888]

I have read one post (was it by you) that claims Hyundai is "making changes" for 2010. This is all well and good if it happen; however, if there were truly enough complaints about it, my experience says it will be out before 2009. I had an issue with an early four-wheel-steering prelude many years ago. It really sucked. An "insider" at Honda (just to make me feel better I now believe) told me of numerous changes that were coming to address my issues. None ever did, and Honda discontinued the four-wheel-steering.

Unitl I see a TSB or something in writing with regards to suspension setup changes specifically to improve the ride, I will leave that filed under "Rumors I hope are true."

Maybe you should read this thread:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=1788

 

[Hghwy52]

I wonder if anyone else has noticed an improvement in ride harshness over time? With 2500 miles on my 3.8 model the ride is somewhat more compliant than when new although it is still too harsh over rough roads IMO. I had a 1980's Chevy Caprice with sports suspension that had significant wheel hop over bumps at first but settled down nicely after about 10k miles. I also had a 1990 Lexus LS that had a great ride when new but was way too softly sprung by the time I traded it eight years later. Spring rates ease over time and the front and rear springs will wear differently and that may mitigate the resonance problem mentioned in this thread.