Talk about LSD...

[TheDr9669]

I have read several posts about disabling the ESC completely and the Genesis having an open rear end. There has been some speculation that the earlier models with the mechanical parking brake had a true LSD vs the newer models with the electronic parking brake and LSD. I have researched this thru Hyundai Tech Info and found that the part numbers are the same from '09-'14. (Nobody has '15 information posted online yet, not even Hyundai.) I am wondering if anyone else might have some other info? I have still not found anything that describes how/what the LSD function so I am still researching. I have an '11 4.6 Genesis and would love to have a few good pictures of the rear end from a car with the mechanical parking brake to compare and confirm what I have found so far.

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

I have seen video's of cars such as in the esc mod completely off thread that shows while all traction control is disabled the car will fish tail when accelerating, that is a mechanical lsd, and I have read that canada the build list included LSD in 2009 and looking for used there is a wrecking yard in quebec canada that lists lsd units.
I too want to see the difference because my local dealer is also telling me that the 09 to 14 diff is the same.

 

[TheDr9669]

I have seen video's of cars such as in the esc mod completely off thread that shows while all traction control is disabled the car will fish tail when accelerating, that is a mechanical lsd, and I have read that canada the build list included LSD in 2009 and looking for used there is a wrecking yard in quebec canada that lists lsd units.
I too want to see the difference because my local dealer is also telling me that the 09 to 14 diff is the same.

I understand what you are saying, but going sideways in not a 100% guarantee that there is a LSD involved. My first car was an '80 280ZX and it had an open differential. Believe me, that car had no problem whatsoever going sideways, or completely swapping ends for that matter. But the info about the Canadian model having an LSD is something I will be looking into.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Not sure about the LSD issue either.

I have a '12 R Spec. I've done both the one wheel wonder and the two wheel wonder when doing burnouts with the ESC off. Not the pulling the fuse thing, just turning the switch off.

I've done it when power breaking and when I've just nailed the throttle. Just the other day, I turned ESC off, held the brake, brought the RPM's up to about 2 grand and released the brake as I nailed it. Left two nice long black stripes on the road. And I did feel the back end wandering around a bit.

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

I understand what you are saying, but going sideways in not a 100% guarantee that there is a LSD involved. My first car was an '80 280ZX and it had an open differential. Believe me, that car had no problem whatsoever going sideways, or completely swapping ends for that matter. But the info about the Canadian model having an LSD is something I will be looking into.

yes there is enough power to spin the one wheel long enough/fast enough that the second wheel will also spin, but you can feel (at lower throttle because of torque) true LSD rip both back tires loose.
Test this Jack both back tires up off the ground and turn one wheel does the other turn the same direction or opposite.

Not sure about the LSD issue either.

I have a '12 R Spec. I've done both the one wheel wonder and the two wheel wonder when doing burnouts with the ESC off. Not the pulling the fuse thing, just turning the switch off.

I've done it when power breaking and when I've just nailed the throttle. Just the other day, I turned ESC off, held the brake, brought the RPM's up to about 2 grand and released the brake as I nailed it. Left two nice long black stripes on the road. And I did feel the back end wandering around a bit.

ESC off via the switch does not turn off the esc, it just allows more latitude,
the way the electronic limited slip works is it will use the brake on the excessively spinning wheel to force the power to the other wheel.
on my 2011 4.6 with just pushing the esc off button I can slide the rear around just as if it had a lsd but when you do the esc mod it becomes a one wheel wonder.

 

[TheDr9669]

I am still looking into this. Hyundai has the different regions parts separated and my brother is currently working with the parts guy at the dealership to get more information. My brother does seem to think it is possible that the Canadian version might have a mechanical LSD. I will let y'all know when I find out for sure. I have high hopes because this would really unlock our cars potential with the ESC completely disabled. No more one tire fryers or one wheeled wonders.

 

[fourthirteen]

I read somewhere that the R-spec has a Torsen LSD...don't know about the regular Genesis sedan.

 

[QCTLG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEiSTzK-A2A

 

[dareckibmw]

.....
Test this Jack both back tires up off the ground and turn one wheel does the other turn the same direction or opposite.

I had my car on the lift today, changing back to summer wheels and I tried that. The other wheel goes in opposite direction.

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

open diff ^, and thats on the R-spec?

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[dareckibmw]

Yes, Sir.

 

[daviderle]

It was 'speculated' that the 2010+ did not have LSD due what was advertised and communicated by the dealers in the early days, something along the lines of:

2009 V6 no LSD.
2009 V8 4.6 did have an LSD
2010+ no LSD in any trim.

I think the question at hand, did the 2009 really have an LSD (due to the absence of EBS / TCS with a manual hand/foot parking breaks)?

http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=5471

Given someone said that the 2009 V8 may share the same differential components as the later models, I am beginning to question the belief that the 2009 V8 had an LSD in the first place?

I wish I have time to find out and solve this mystery, but unfortunately I have no time for the next couple of months due to other priorities...

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

It was 'speculated' that the 2010+ did not have LSD due what was advertised and communicated by the dealers in the early days, something along the lines of:

2009 V6 no LSD.
2009 V8 4.6 did have an LSD
2010+ no LSD in any trim.

I think the question at hand, did the 2009 really have an LSD (due to the absence of EBS / TCS with a manual hand/foot parking breaks)?

http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=5471

Given someone said that the 2009 V8 may share the same differential components as the later models, I am beginning to question the belief that the 2009 V8 had an LSD in the first place?

I wish I have time to find out and solve this mystery, but unfortunately I have no time for the next couple of months due to other priorities...

I think they deleted any mention of any true LSD components maybe to discourage people like us from just buying the 09 carrier for our newer cars.
I seen video of ping with full esc mod, no traction control at all and when he took off his car was trying to go sideways which is very indicative of true LSD. One wheel wonders do not fish tail because they have one wheel that is still going straight and there is no loss of friction to allow it to slide sideways.

 

[daviderle]

I think they deleted any mention of any true LSD components maybe to discourage people like us from just buying the 09 carrier for our newer cars.
I seen video of ping with full esc mod, no traction control at all and when he took off his car was trying to go sideways which is very indicative of true LSD. One wheel wonders do not fish tail because they have one wheel that is still going straight and there is no loss of friction to allow it to slide sideways.

I think you are right, but it has been a long time and without testing again it is difficult to be sure!

However I can tell you that I have a video in derikbmw "my little photo shoot" thread, that shows a particular run that I often do, in the 2009 4.6 I can take that corner a lot faster than I can in the R-Spec, not because of the extra power but because the rear end is much more predictable as I exit that apex... Which is maybe indicative of of a true LSD... Also the 4.6 2009 is much easer to drift in a in a nice arch than the R-Spec (with ESC disabled)...

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

I think you are right, but it has been a long time and without testing again it is difficult to be sure!

However I can tell you that I have a video in derikbmw "my little phone shoot" thread, that shows a particular run that I often do, in the 2009 4.6 I can take that corner a lot faster than I can in the R-Spec, not because of the extra power but because the rear end is much more predictable as I exit that apex... Which is maybe indicative of of a true LSD... Also the 4.6 2009 is much easer to drift in a in a nice arch than the R-Spec (with ESC disabled)...

That makes perfect sense, when open diff but high power you WILL get both tires spinning just not in line, the wheel not getting the power will not have a loss of friction and so wont slide sideways it will try to move forward.


The first thing I did with my car is go into a big empty parking lot and turn esc off and crank the wheel all the way to the left, (could have went right too but just seems more natural to go to the side I have full view of) and punch it. I had both back tires lit up and the back of the car just rotated right around the front. I though thats LSD right there, but then found after 3/4 rotation the traction control kicked on and things got jerky.
Now fast forward to esc mod done. I did the pull the fuse walk around hit the button walk back replace fuse, I did a few straight line burn outs and was only seeing the one wheel peel, I tried a quick 180, I have done them a hundred times with just esc off, no go I almost ran out of road because the rear would not swing around. but I did have tire smoke so thick you could not see 10 feet.

Well finally got a chance to do further testing again big empty lot, the remote esc mod done so I do a single 360 (donut) and the entire time the rear end feels like its pushing, and the rear most certainly did not rotate around the front, now I think maybe its the weather or something else so sitting right there in that tire smoke I shut down the car restarted and did another donut, this time the rear tires rotated right around the car (esc off on the dash of course) I don't think my drivers front tire even rolled forward just pivoted on its axis.

 

[scottdk]

The 2009 4.6 is an open diff, no LSD. With the ESC mod completed the vehicle will spin the passenger rear tire only.

 

[daviderle]

The 2009 4.6 is an open diff, no LSD. With the ESC mod completed the vehicle will spin the passenger rear tire only.

Your test answers that question ....

It seems many of us were misled in the early days, which maybe not surprising as dealers knew allot less about the Genesis than some potential buyers at that time..

Thank you Scott for taking the time to test it....

 

[TheDr9669]

Your test answers that question ....

It seems many of us were misled in the early days, which maybe not surprising as dealers knew allot less about the Genesis than some potential buyers at that time..

Thank you Scott for taking the time to test it....

So the P/N's being the same is confirmed then. I was really hoping this would be easy. So far, the only thing my brother has turned up is that all the rear ends are the same. The electronic limited slip would not be so bad if we could disable the rest of the nannies. I wonder if any of the other global markets might have a true LSD???

 

[2011 Genesis 4.6]

That is very strange, First Pinggolf's video shows limited slip diff in action.

and second canada models where sold with LSD. Maybe your car is an early 2010 Scott?

and as to getting lsd I am positive there is something that can be done, anyone have a coupe with lsd that they can take and measure the carrier and rear diff? if they were the same size I would think they could just transfer the lsd carrier to the sedan's rear diff.

oh and mine will peel the drivers rear tire not the passengers. lol

 

[smoken1986]

The whole spinning the rear wheels while the car in the air is not a guaranteed way to check. Depending on whether you had the car in gear or not and what kind of lsd it is will depend on whether both wheels will spin the same direction. Helical lsd will spin the wheel the opposite way if the car is left in gear also.

Best way open it up and look at it.