LEN STOLER INC. Owings Mills MD 21117

[gcarper]

I leased a 2009 4.6 with Tech on 7 Feb 2009. About a week ago I got a call from the finance lady saying that they screwed my deal up and need me to accept a new payment plan, which will add about $50 per month ( X 27 Months = $1350 more than I negotiated). I also noticed after I left the dealer that they only gave me a 12K mileage verses the 15K per year mileage limit that we had discussed.

Here are the details:

Car Price: $40500
Net Trade in Allowance: $4500 (2001 VW Passat with 90K Miles)
Rebates: $1750
Cash Down: $2500
Total "Cash" = $8750

Agreed Upon Value: $40500
Taxes: $1332
Title and Reg Fees: $275
Lease Acquistion Fee: $595
Document Fee: $100
Gross Capital Costs: $42802

Monthly Lease payment: $398.69 for a total of $10764.63.

Total of all Lease costs: $19515.94 (payments plus acquisition costs)

What the hell should I do - they are holding my tags "hostage" until I accept the new payment plan.


If anyone wants the Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement - let me know I can email you a copy - I tried to post it here and I got some weird certificate error that would not allow me to post it.

This is my first Hyundai - I was happy until this past week with my purchase - now I view Hyundai as a totally unethical company... WTF???

What is the best way to resolve - I have thought about contacting an attorney - but the costs are about the same as a retainer fee. I will definately share this experience on both Consumer Reports.org / Edmunds and experience Genesis....

Military Guy who got hosed by Hyundai.

 

[Dimitry]

It is very crucial before signing any documents, make sure your monthly and mileage match up to what was agreed to.

Many times dealers, especially inexperienced leasing consultants, will mess up on 12k/15k/18k/20k annual mile allocation, and thus give you a "lower" rate. I never personally trust ANY salespeople to numbers, nor finance managers - it'll take a bit of time, but its worth going over the papers to confirm it is what you indeed got.

If the mistake is they gave you the 12k rate, and you wanted the 15k rate, the 50$ stepup sounds prudent, however, for the inconvenience, they should absorb that without any issues.

1350 off that price give them a solid margin, especially if that Passat you traded in was a GLX.

I would personally call and setup a meeting with the General Manager to voice your concerns, and to explain the inconvenience it has caused you, be sure to note that they're holding your tags - Most GMs should get things evened out straight.

Keep your paperwork in the car in the scenario you get into any on-road issues.

 

[gcarper]

You are right - the trade was a 1.8T GLS Wagon. I thought it was a fair deal - until I got the call, now I am just pissed off that I have to deal with this again. The dealer is about 72 miles from my home and really don't want to have to drive up there again...

Total Estimated Time: 1 hour 23 minutes
Total Estimated Distance: 71.92 miles

I am an executive with little "playtime" on hands to be dealing with this - note it's 12PM EST and this is my only "down time"....

 

[MaxdOut]

Don't forget to file with the www.bbb.org

 

[Mark_888]

The agreement that was singed by both parties is the one that is legally binding. Anything said verbally is irrelevant.

So the dealer is stuck with the price in the contract, and you are stuck with the lower mileage. If you want the higher mileage, you can decide if you want to pay the $50 per month extra. If not, inform the dealer that you will abide by the written contract and you expect them to also, or else it will be necessary to pursue legal enforcement of the contract.

The dealer has a time limit for submitting title info to the state (probably 30 days), so you should inform them that you will file a complaint with the state if they do not register the car on your behalf.

If the dealer still does to perform according to sales agreement and state laws, then contact the consumer affairs reporter at a local TV station and explain your story (and don't forget to mention you are a member of the military).

 

[ctrcbob]

Your problem is not with Hyundai, but with the Dealer.

 

[gcarper]

You are right the problem is with the dealer not Hyundai - but they represent Hyundai's luxury group.... and right now I am not too happy.

I priced out the additional miles they cost .15 per mile @ 3000 miles = $450 if you front load them in your lease agreement.

If you wait until lease end they cost .20 per mile @ 3000 Miles = $600. so the $1350 addition should buy 9000 additional miles.

I think I will stick with the original lease agreement that I signed.... and call the mgr...

 

[gcarper]

http://www.bbb.org/greatermd/busine...w-cars/len-stoler-inc-in-owings-mills-md-7076


Customer Complaint History
When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.
BBB processed a total of 25 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 25 complaints closed in 36 months, 9 were closed in the last year.
These complaints concerned :
1 regarding Billing or Collection Issues BBB Definition:

Billing or Collection Issues - Claim alleging billing errors, unauthorized charges, or questionable collection practices.

1 - Improper collection practices

2 regarding Contract Issues BBB Definition:

Contract Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor contract or agreement, work performed without authorization, or invalid contract.

1 - Failure to honor a contract or agreement
1 - Unauthorized changes to the contract or agreement

3 regarding Customer Service Issues BBB Definition:

Service Issues - Claims of alleged delay in completing service, failure to provide promised service, inferior quality of provided service, or damaged merchandise as a result of delivery service.
BBB Definition:

Customer Service Issues - Claims alleging unsatisfactory customer service, including personnel's failure to provide assistance in a timely manner, failure to address or respond to customer dissatisfaction, unavailability for customer support, and/or inappropriate behavior or attitude exhibited by company staff.

2 - Failure to provide promised assistance or support for products or services
1 - Failure to respond to phone calls or written requests for assistance or support

1 regarding Delivery Issues BBB Definition:

Delivery Issues - Claims alleging delayed delivery of ordered merchandise.

1 - None of the Above - Delivery Complaint Issue

2 regarding Product Issues BBB Definition:

Product Issues - Claim alleging a product does not meet the expectations of the complainant, including defective merchandise.

2 - Defective, damaged, or incorrect product received

1 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues BBB Definition:

Refund or Exchange Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor company policy or verbal commitment to provide refunds, exchanges, or credit for products or services.

1 - Failure to honor promised refunds, exchanges, or credit

4 regarding Repair Issues BBB Definition:

Repair Issues - Claims of alleged incorrect diagnosis of a problem, delay in completion of repair, or inferior workmanship.

1 - Improper or inferior repair
1 - None of the Above - Repair Complaint Issue
2 - Repairs resulted in additional damage

2 regarding Sales Practice Issues BBB Definition:

Sales Practice Issues - Claims of alleged sales presentations made in person or by telephone that contain misrepresentations of the product or service, high pressure sales practices, failure to disclose key conditions of the offer, and verbal representations not consistent with written contractual terms or agreements.

1 - Sales presentation did not disclose complete pricing information
1 - Sales presentation not consistent with advertisement

9 regarding Service Issues BBB Definition:

Service Issues - Claims of alleged delay in completing service, failure to provide promised service, inferior quality of provided service, or damaged merchandise as a result of delivery service.

3 - Improper or inferior service
4 - None of the Above - Service Complaint Issue
2 - Services resulted in additional damage (exp. Damaged product during shipping)


These complaints were closed as:
14 Resolved BBB Definition:

Resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.

10 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
3 - Company resolved BBB Definition:

resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.
the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to BBB.
1 - Company resolved BBB Definition:

resolved - The company resolved the complaint issues.
the complaint issues, but not within BBB's timeframe.

2 Unresolved BBB Definition:

Unresolved - The company failed to resolve the complaint issues.

2 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.

2 No Response BBB Definition:

No Response - The company failed to respond to the complaint.

2 - Company failed to respond to BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.

7 Administratively Closed BBB Definition:

Administratively Closed - BBB determined that the complaint could not be satisfactorily settled using standard methods of voluntary dispute resolution

4 - BBB determined that despite the company's reasonable effort to address complaint issues, the consumer remained dissatisfied.
1 - The parties could not provide sufficient information to support their positions nor were they agreeable to make reasonable efforts toward resolving the issues of the dispute.
1 - BBB determined the company made a reasonable offer to resolve the issues, but the consumer did not accept the offer.
1 - Company agreed to arbitration BBB Definition:

arbitration - http://www.dr.bbb.org/ComSenseAlt/bindArb.asp
in accordance with their BBB agreement, but the consumer declined.

 

[gcarper]

Thanks for the advice folks and thank you to all those who reviewed my agreement..(via email)

Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau's Online Complaint System.
Your complaint has been assigned case # 36035XXX.
Correspondence regarding this complaint will be emailed to :
Please print a copy of this for your records.

Filed on : March 15 2009

Filed by :


Filed against :
Len Stoler Inc
11275 Reistertowns Road
Owings Mills MD 21117

Complaint Description:
I leased a 2009 4.6 with Tech on 7 Feb 2009. About a week ago I got a call from the finance lady saying that they screwed my deal up and need me to accept a new payment plan, which will add about $50 per month ( X 27 Months = $1350 more than I negotiated). I also noticed after I left the dealer that they only gave me a 12K mileage verses the 15K per year mileage limit that we had discussed. Here are the details: Car Price: $40500 Net Trade in Allowance: $4500 (2001 VW Passat with 90K Miles) Rebates: $1750 Cash Down: $2500 Total "Cash" = $8750 Agreed Upon Value: $40500 Taxes: $1332 Title and Reg Fees: $275 Lease Acquistion Fee: $595 Document Fee: $100 Gross Capital Costs: $42802 Monthly Lease payment: $398.69 for a total of $10764.63. Total of all Lease costs: $19515.94 (payments plus acquisition costs) What the hell should I do - they are holding my tags "hostage" until I accept the new payment plan. If anyone wants the Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement - let me know I can email you a copy - I tried to post it here and I got some weird certificate error that would not allow me to post it. This is my first Hyundai - I was happy until this past week with my purchase - now I view Hyundai as a totally unethical company... What is the best way to resolve - I have thought about contacting an attorney - but the costs are about the same as a retainer fee. I will definately share this experience on both Consumer Reports.org / Edmunds and experience Genesis....

Your Desired Resolution:
Honor the original Agreement that I signed.

This case will be reviewed by a complaint specialist at the Better Business Bureau, and then forwarded to the business for their response. It is our policy to allow the business 30 working days to respond to your complaint. You will be notified when the business has responded.

What would you like to do next?
View the status of your complaint
Return to the BBB Homepage BBB Privacy Policy

 

[Richard Ft. Lauderdale]

When I leased a car from a Larchmont, NY dealer while living in Manhattan they made a mistake on the paper work not once, not twice, but three times.

When I told him to come to my apartment in Manhattan the first time the salesman objected but did because I told him I was not driving to Larchmont under any circumstances.

The second and third times. He phoned and asked what time he could be there?

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[gcarper]

I am trying to get setup for an interview with ABC News Scam Alerts.. HMA has been completely ineffective. Seems all the dealerships are just resellers of their product with no authority over quality control of the sales or service process.

http://www.abc2news.com/content/gmm/scam_alerts/default.aspx

 

[gcarper]

Office of the Maryland Attorney General - Consumer Fraud


HMA did not resolve - taking to the next level - Office of the Maryland Attorney General/Consumer Fraud Division.

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/complaint.htm

 

[Mark_888]

Seems all the dealerships are just resellers of their product with no authority over quality control of the sales or service process.

You can't be serious. Are you trying to tell us that you just now figured that out? Works the same for all auto dealers in the US (none are owned by the auto manufacturers).

You are not required to alter the agreement that you signed. If you didn't read it, then you learned a valuable lesson (hopefully).

 

[gcarper]

My situation is much more simple. I signed an agreement then the dealer later decided they did not want to honor since it was screwed up in my favor. Imagine if you as a consumer found out that Hyundai screwed you and charged you $5000 more and you went back to the dealer a month later to complain.. they would tell you to go pound sand. As a consumer who negotiated a good deal I should have that right too..

I want Hyundai to honor the agreement that I signed with them on 7 Feb 2009. Reread the post. They are screwing me out of $1400. That maybe OK with you - but in my mind that is theft. Bait and switch is illegal in most states.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/0ecc000105/hyundai-assurance-commercial


I wish they would do anything... my experience has been very different. Maybe I am expecting too much from Hyundai's Dealer Network - they expect my $40K, and I expect them to honor our original agreement.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark did you grow tired of the the suspension thread? I think I saw you pass me this week.

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/3/Car-with-bad-suspension-244090.html

Maybe I am naive -but at least I would sell my car if the suspension was as poor as you make it out to be. I have not experienced your bone jarring mind numbing ride that your car has. But if mine did I would be back at the dealer everyday until they bought it back.

I think you are confusing me with someone else (perhaps Doug). I have made comments about the suspension, but I never said anything like that it was a "bone jarring mind numbing ride." Never. I would appreciate a retraction.

My situation is much more simple. I signed an agreement that the dealer who later decided they did not want to honor since it was screwed up in my favor. Imagine if you as a consumer found out that Hyundai screwed you and charged you $5000 more and you went back to the dealer a month later to complain.. they would tell you to go pound sand. As a consumer who negotiated a good deal I should have that right too..

I want Hyundai to honor the agreement that I signed with them on 7 Feb 2009. Reread the post. They are screwing me out of $1400. That maybe OK with you - but in my mind that is theft. Bait and switch is illegal in most states.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/0ecc000105/hyundai-assurance-commercial

I wish they would do anything... my experience has been very different. Maybe I am expecting too much from Hyundai - they expect my $40K, and I expect them to honor our original agreement.

As I mentioned above, if you signed a written contract with the dealer and you want to have that contract enforced as written (previously you were wanted them to amend the contract regarding number of miles), then you have a perfectly legal right to do so. If the dealer is not honoring the contract then you have several avenues open to you including but not limited to:

1. Arbitration
2. Lawsuit (you might be able to sue even if you signed an arbitration agreement)
3. Local District Attorney office of consumer fraud
4. Local TV station consumer affairs reporters (they love this kind of stuff)

However, instead of seeking action against the dealer, you keep mentioning Hyundai as the culprit. It does not appear to me that Hyundai is a party in this dispute. If you purchased a Sony TV at Walmart that allowed you pay over time, and had a contract dispute with Walmart regarding the price/terms of sale (as opposed to a warranty issue) then you cannot seek relief against Sony. Same applies here since your dealer bought the car from Hyundai and then sold it to you. Your dealer is not owned by Hyundai. If I am wrong about this, please enlighten me.

Now, one wonders why you keep mentioning Hyundai when the complaint is against the dealer. One wonders why this matter has not already been cleared up if you do indeed have a written contract that you want enforced. Given that you misquoted me above (confused me with another poster), and that you are trying to libel Hyundai for acts of an independent dealer, one wonders whether the facts as you stated them are completely accurate?

 

[gcarper]

Mark,
You are right - I have you confused with Doug... hope you enjoyed the video... sorry for the misquote as well.

 

[gcarper]

Mark,
What is the file limit for an image upload - I have a scanned copy of the lease agreement that I would like to post.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark,
What is the file limit for an image upload - I have a scanned copy of the lease agreement that I would like to post.

I don't know. But in most cases you should be able to enforce the agreement whatever it says, unless it can be proven that both parties clearly had a different understanding, or the terms are ambiguous.

My point is that Hyundai is not the right entity to enforce an agreement between the dealer and you (unless Hyundai finance was involved?). I would contact your local consumer affairs reporter at a local TV station if the dealer is trying to charge you something different than what the contract says. If that does not work, you can try legal avenues, including small claims court.

 

[realpix]

Re: Office of the Maryland Attorney General - Consumer Fraud

HMA did not resolve - taking to the next level - Office of the Maryland Attorney General/Consumer Fraud Division.

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/complaint.htm

Seems pretty stupid for a relatively small amount of money. You would think the dealer would live up to their agreement.




Good luck in handling this situation. Glad to see you're putting a lot of heat on the problem.

Are you adding in the "documentation fee", AG acquisition fee and all the rest?

 

[gcarper]

Resolved - they finally honored the original agreement that I signed. I just filled out by JD Powers report giving the initial quality top marks.