5.0 Torque Converter & Clutch

[ASHDUMP]

I posted this in the Equus section but as we all know it doesn't get much visitors so I'm trying here

Hello everyone.

I own a 2014 Equus Signature and since day one I was having a lot of issues with acceleration. The car is not smooth and feels like it shudders while shifting through gears.

Its been to the dealer at least 10 times as the service department is determined to figure out what is going on. We've gone as far as having the Hyundai regional rep and a corporate engineer review my case. They both took my car for a test drive.

Through the flow of information back to me they determined the car is operating as designed.

AFTER THAT STATEMENT I DECIDED TO TRY ANOTHER DEALERSHIP!

The new dealership also confirmed that my car shudders while accelerating. (they didn't know the back story to my car, yet)

After our test drive we decided to take a brand new Equus off the showroom floor for a test drive.... Believe it or not, the new 2016 was worse than my car.

The service manager and head shop forman both commented that they would never buy this car (the new 2016 we drove) because it was terrible. They described the sensation we all felt as torque converter "hunting".

Has anyone else felt this in their V8 Genesis or Equus.

The first dealer also test drove another Equus and also said that car did the same thing.

I can't believe they would engineer a car to act this way. It is very noticeable.

Does anyone else notice this?

 

[Midnightsun]

Never heard of this yet on a 5.0 Genesis here on these forums. Smooth as silk from 0 to infinity.

 

[TroyK]

haven't noticed this on my 3.8 with 8 speed auto. the 2016 equus does have the 8 speed, right? what does it feel like in sport mode??

 

[TroyK]

also, if the tranny was serviced make sure they used the proper fluid. the wrong fluid can cause all kinds of shift issues.

 

[Genentec]

they need to replace the entire drivetrain.

 

[balfor]

does not sound normal, TC lockup is nearly imperceptible on my 8 speed Genesis trans and I think the Equus is the same trans.

I assumed they checked the fluid level and condition? Transmission and engine mounts as well as U-joints?

If they continue to stonewall and say it is normal you might want to take it to an good independent transmission shop and have them diagnose it, then press Hyundai to repair. If they still refuse you could get the repair done at the independent shop and sue for reimbursement. Long road to a solution but it might be worth it in the end.

 

[Mark_888]

According to OP:

"After our test drive we decided to take a brand new Equus off the showroom floor for a test drive.... Believe it or not, the new 2016 was worse than my car."

So that seems to rule out a number of possibilities, including incorrect transmission fluid. It is the same transmission as the Genesis, but maybe they changed the software for the Equus or something.

However, I haven't heard this complaint before from any other Equus owners on this forum, so it seems a bit suspicious to me. If I am wrong, and other Equus owners have also had this problem, they should chime in.

I would also suggest trying an Equus at a different dealer.

 

[srobak]

they need to replace the entire drivetrain.

I HIGHLY doubt that the axles, wheels, driveshaft, differential and the transmission all need to be replaced. SMH...

Remember that earlier post I directed your way? Might want to read it again.

 

[TroyK]

check out this TSB: TCM update

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM510973/SB-10060954-2273.pdf

 

[Mark_888]

check out this TSB: TCM update

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM510973/SB-10060954-2273.pdf

How to explain the same problem with the 2016's that OP noticed when test driving them at a dealer?

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[bagobit]

I just recently purchased a pre-owned 2014 Equus Ultimate with 39K miles.

After driving for a week I noticed that there was a shudder during acceleration between 20-40 mph that wasn't horrible but was definitely there. Took it to the Hyundai dealership and they informed me that the car had just had the engine replaced, they didn't know exactly why - they just showed in their system that it was replaced under warranty.

The dealership was able to duplicate the shudder and after a week of trying to narrow it down they called Hyundai Tech support to advise and they sent out a field engineer/tech who told them to focus on the transmission. After graphing the transmission shift points they told me there was a problem with the transmission and they would replace under warranty.

I just got the car back a few days ago (with a new transmission) and i still notice some strange shudder during acceleration (different than the original feeling). I plan on driving for a few weeks to see if there is a break-in needed and then re-evaluating.

Like the OP, I can't imagine that the car should perform like this. Since this is Hyundai's crack at the high end market I would expect the transmission to be nothing but smooth.

 

[srobak]

very bizarre... to my knowledge the trans is the same as what is in the G2 - and mine is absolutely silk. I think this is also the first time I have seen a string of posts with this particular complaint.

 

[ASHDUMP]

According to OP:

So that seems to rule out a number of possibilities, including incorrect transmission fluid. It is the same transmission as the Genesis, but maybe they changed the software for the Equus or something.

However, I haven't heard this complaint before from any other Equus owners on this forum, so it seems a bit suspicious to me. If I am wrong, and other Equus owners have also had this problem, they should chime in.

I would also suggest trying an Equus at a different dealer.

The shop forman also mentioned that it seemed like a software design and not necessarily a hardware problem. Reason was because of how it felt to him and how the second Equus we drove did the exact same thing but even worse.

He said the torque converter clutch was hunting for optimal efficiency which is why we feel the shudder.

check out this TSB: TCM update

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM510973/SB-10060954-2273.pdf

Thanks for passing along. Unfortunately my care is 100% up to date with all TSB's and the date range doesn't work. My car was built in Sept. 2013.

How to explain the same problem with the 2016's that OP noticed when test driving them at a dealer?

Correct. Also, the original dealership where I bought my car also test drove another Equus and reported it doing the same thing. I wasn't there to vouch for this but I believe them only because they had been so helpful throughout the entire process.

I just recently purchased a pre-owned 2014 Equus Ultimate with 39K miles.

After driving for a week I noticed that there was a shudder during acceleration between 20-40 mph that wasn't horrible but was definitely there. Took it to the Hyundai dealership and they informed me that the car had just had the engine replaced, they didn't know exactly why - they just showed in their system that it was replaced under warranty.

The dealership was able to duplicate the shudder and after a week of trying to narrow it down they called Hyundai Tech support to advise and they sent out a field engineer/tech who told them to focus on the transmission. After graphing the transmission shift points they told me there was a problem with the transmission and they would replace under warranty.

I just got the car back a few days ago (with a new transmission) and i still notice some strange shudder during acceleration (different than the original feeling). I plan on driving for a few weeks to see if there is a break-in needed and then re-evaluating.

Like the OP, I can't imagine that the car should perform like this. Since this is Hyundai's crack at the high end market I would expect the transmission to be nothing but smooth.

Glad I'm not going insane and there is someone else with a similar/same problem. We should keep updating this thread and maybe even connect via email at some point.

I was told the only way to have Hyundai change software or get a fix for this is if enough people complain about the problem. Unfortunately for us, there isn't a lot of Equus drivers out there.

 

[ASHDUMP]

As a follow to my original post:

The shuddering I feel is very noticeable when the car has sat for a full weekend or if the weather is cold. I'm located in New England so for the entire winter each morning I would hit the highway at about 5:30AM and the sensation would be very noticeable. Not a lot of cars on the road so I can cruise without interference.

Now because the weather is warmer, the car usually has to sit for a full weekend to get the shuddering to be very noticeable like in the winter. HOWEVER, the sensation never goes away as I can feel it every time I drive the car. Its only really noticeable when the weather is cold or the car has sat.

I guess I could drive another Equus at a different dealership but I know it will be the same.

I'm 99.5% confident that all Equus 2014 and later do the same thing but maybe a lot of people don't drive the highway or at least hit the highway when the engine is still cold?

It is most noticeable when you have a little bit of running room - The car shudders even up around the 70MPH-90MPH range.

It also shudders in the lower MPH range too...

 

[ASHDUMP]

haven't noticed this on my 3.8 with 8 speed auto. the 2016 equus does have the 8 speed, right? what does it feel like in sport mode??

Sport mode is the same.... I thought maybe it would reduce this shudder but it doesn't.

A little off topic, but the sport mode is great in this car but my only gripe with it is that there is no 8th gear.... it stops at 7.

 

[TroyK]

How to explain the same problem with the 2016's that OP noticed when test driving them at a dealer?

just trying to help...no need to be a dick about it! i realize it's odd that the 2016 car he drove did the same thing. makes me wonder if hyundai has an intermittent/rare issue with the 8 speed that they haven't yet fully gotten rid of. note i wrote RARE!

 

[TroyK]

Sport mode is the same.... I thought maybe it would reduce this shudder but it doesn't.

A little off topic, but the sport mode is great in this car but my only gripe with it is that there is no 8th gear.... it stops at 7.

i'm gonna have to confirm but i swear mine goes into 8th when in sport mode.

 

[Mark_888]

just trying to help...no need to be a dick about it! i realize it's odd that the 2016 car he drove did the same thing. makes me wonder if hyundai has an intermittent/rare issue with the 8 speed that they haven't yet fully gotten rid of. note i wrote RARE!

Why am I being a dick about it? I simply asked how that old TSB would explain the problem still occurring on the 2016's.

As far as being rare, OP claims that all the new 2016's he drove at the dealer had the same problem.

It is possible that TSB helped the problem on the older model years, but could not completely eliminate it. I think we are all just looking for some kind of explanation.

 

[TroyK]

Sport mode is the same.... I thought maybe it would reduce this shudder but it doesn't.

A little off topic, but the sport mode is great in this car but my only gripe with it is that there is no 8th gear.... it stops at 7.

what about manual shifts via the shift lever or steering wheel paddles (if equipped). still get the same shuddery shifts??

 

[TroyK]

Why am I being a dick about it? I simply asked how that old TSB would explain the problem still occurring on the 2016's.

As far as being rare, OP claims that all the new 2016's he drove at the dealer had the same problem.

It is possible that TSB helped the problem on the older model years, but could not completely eliminate it. I think we are all just looking for some kind of explanation.

one would think the 8 speed in the G2 would be almost exactly the same as the unit used in the equus. maybe i'm wrong about that? anyway, complaints about the tranny in the G2 are almost non-existent from what i can tell. just seems very odd that the issue experienced in the equus wouldn't also affect the G2.