5.0 Torque Converter & Clutch

[Mark_888]

one would think the 8 speed in the G2 would be almost exactly the same as the unit used in the equus. maybe i'm wrong about that? anyway, complaints about the tranny in the G2 are almost non-existent from what i can tell. just seems very odd that the issue experienced in the equus wouldn't also affect the G2.

Yes, I would agree. It is very odd.

Ashdump has been a trusted member here for a long time, and I don't question what he says, but it is very odd. Also, another Equus owner reported the same thing in this thread.

 

[bagobit]

Does anyone know what the "Eco Driving" on/off does on the 2014 Equus? The manual says:

ECO Driving
On : The ECO driving mode will be activated.
Off : The ECO driving mode will be deactivated.

I was initially told that it doesn't change the performance of the car (it only gives a ECO light when you drive conservatively) but when I turn it off it seems like I don't feel the issue in the transmission as much. But at this point it could all be in my head.

Anyway, does anyone know if the "Eco Driving" actually changes anything? shift points? or if it is just an indicator of driving style?

 

[ASHDUMP]

i'm gonna have to confirm but i swear mine goes into 8th when in sport mode.

From what I can tell, we have two totally different engines and I'm sure the performance specs and programming are way different. I honestly don't know much about the V6's....

what about manual shifts via the shift lever or steering wheel paddles (if equipped). still get the same shuddery shifts??

This is a great question and I'm kind of shocked I haven't experimented with this. I'll play around tomorrow morning when I hit the highway. I'll report back with my findings.

Yes, I would agree. It is very odd.

Ashdump has been a trusted member here for a long time, and I don't question what he says, but it is very odd. Also, another Equus owner reported the same thing in this thread.

Been here a while now! Maybe tooo long.... Started with a new 2009 4.6 when the forum only had a few people talking about Genesis.

Does anyone know what the "Eco Driving" on/off does on the 2014 Equus? The manual says:

ECO Driving
On : The ECO driving mode will be activated.
Off : The ECO driving mode will be deactivated.

I was initially told that it doesn't change the performance of the car (it only gives a ECO light when you drive conservatively) but when I turn it off it seems like I don't feel the issue in the transmission as much. But at this point it could all be in my head.

Anyway, does anyone know if the "Eco Driving" actually changes anything? shift points? or if it is just an indicator of driving style?

From what I understand its only the indicator light "on/off". But for shits and giggles I'll turn mine off tomorrow morning and see what happens. I don't think much will come of this but I'd like to rule everything out.

...and for what its worth, my 2009 4.6 shifted through the gears a lot smoother than my Equus.

I will also say that the shuddering most noticeable when slowly accelerating. If you punch the gas pedal enough to down shift the sensation resides a little (but still there).

 

[ASHDUMP]

I turned off the "eco" light and the shudder was still there. I manually shifted my way to work and the shudder is still there.

 

[TroyK]

I turned off the "eco" light and the shudder was still there. I manually shifted my way to work and the shudder is still there.

hummm...i read back through your other posts and i get the impression you might also be feeling some vibration due to flat spotting of the tires when they are cold. especially since you mention shuddering even when no shifting is occurring. is there still shuddering while coasting? have i interpreted your comments correctly? flat spotting seems to be a fairly common occurrence with the G2.

anyhoo, this is a real head scratcher given the fact it seems to affect even the new equus.

if the dealer hasn't at least flushed out and changed the tranny fluid i'd have them do that. might help. i had an f150 awhile back that occasionally displayed a shudder when the torque converter locked and unlocked. new fluid took care of the issue...fwiw.

 

[ASHDUMP]

hummm...i read back through your other posts and i get the impression you might also be feeling some vibration due to flat spotting of the tires when they are cold. especially since you mention shuddering even when no shifting is occurring. is there still shuddering while coasting? have i interpreted your comments correctly? flat spotting seems to be a fairly common occurrence with the G2.

anyhoo, this is a real head scratcher given the fact it seems to affect even the new equus.

if the dealer hasn't at least flushed out and changed the tranny fluid i'd have them do that. might help. i had an f150 awhile back that occasionally displayed a shudder when the torque converter locked and unlocked. new fluid took care of the issue...fwiw.

Thanks for replying. I almost mentioned flat spotting in an earlier post but decided not too.... But, you are correct that flat spotting does occur and more noticeable in colder weather.

Because my car was a left over 2014 with 100mi Hyundai corporate decided to swap out my Continentals for free. They also thought that I might be feeling flat spotting which is why they put brand new rubber on my car (after I had already put 12Kmi on it).

I knew it wasn't flat spotting and I was right. The new tires are perfect and ride super smooth but the shuddering is still there. The shop forman mentioned that when the fluid is cold the shuddering will be there until it gets to temperature... That makes sense. But he also said that it was most likely a software issue and how the car is designed.

Regardless, its kind of annoying.

I'd like to get a transmission flush just to come full circle on everything but that runs about 800/900 bucks. I don't think Hyundai will do it for free or under warranty. ...and I'm not sure its really going to do much for me either.

 

[bagobit]

I turned off the "eco" light and the shudder was still there. I manually shifted my way to work and the shudder is still there.

So I took my 2014 Equus with a brand new transmission to work today (45 miles each way) and I can still feel the shudder that I felt before with the original transmission. On mine it is most noticeable at the 20-40 mph range. It definitely seems like the lighter i try to accelerate the worse it gets, almost like its trying to go in too high a gear.

So on the plus side I have 40k miles and a brand new transmission and engine. But the shudder is still there for me too. It doesn't make the car unpleasant to drive but I would expect better for this car. I personally haven't driven any others but I will try to drive a 2016 Equus and compare.

I'm going to have my brother-in-law (much more of a car guy than I am) drive it in a few days and get his input.

 

[celltech]

A little off topic, but the sport mode is great in this car but my only gripe with it is that there is no 8th gear.... it stops at 7.

It does go into 8th.... But not until you have it going 80+

 

[TroyK]

Thanks for replying. I almost mentioned flat spotting in an earlier post but decided not too.... But, you are correct that flat spotting does occur and more noticeable in colder weather.

Because my car was a left over 2014 with 100mi Hyundai corporate decided to swap out my Continentals for free. They also thought that I might be feeling flat spotting which is why they put brand new rubber on my car (after I had already put 12Kmi on it).

I knew it wasn't flat spotting and I was right. The new tires are perfect and ride super smooth but the shuddering is still there. The shop forman mentioned that when the fluid is cold the shuddering will be there until it gets to temperature... That makes sense. But he also said that it was most likely a software issue and how the car is designed.

Regardless, its kind of annoying.

I'd like to get a transmission flush just to come full circle on everything but that runs about 800/900 bucks. I don't think Hyundai will do it for free or under warranty. ...and I'm not sure its really going to do much for me either.

800 bucks for a tranny fluid/flush/filer! holy kittens! given your documented issues maybe hyundai would pay for the dealer to perform the maintenance??

 

[Mark_888]

800 bucks for a tranny fluid/flush/filer! holy kittens! given your documented issues maybe hyundai would pay for the dealer to perform the maintenance??

It is pretty unlikely that the synthetic transmission oil has worn out after such a short amount of time.

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[Mark_888]

It definitely seems like the lighter i try to accelerate the worse it gets, almost like its trying to go in too high a gear.

Sounds like a transmission software problem. Given the previous Hyundai scandal about improper MPG ratings, and the VW emissions scandal, Hyundai may not want to change the software since it could effect both EPA mileage and emissions numbers for cars that have already been sold.

 

[pmckechnie]

I am going to mention this as food for thought. First, my 2016 Genesis has never had this issue in 13K+ miles. It is hard to detect when it changes gears unless you are accelerating aggressively.

Ford (I know, not a Hyundai) had a problem with the torque converter clutch chattering when the clutch was engaged.. It was very common. Fix was to add a few oz of 'Friction Modifier' to the transmission oil. Problem was fixed.

Maybe a call to the company that makes the transmission oil for the Hyundai could shed some light on this and offer a suggestion.


I

 

[Mark_888]

I am going to mention this as food for thought. First, my 2016 Genesis has never had this issue in 13K+ miles. It is hard to detect when it changes gears unless you are accelerating aggressively.

Ford (I know, not a Hyundai) had a problem with the torque converter clutch chattering when the clutch was engaged.. It was very common. Fix was to add a few oz of 'Friction Modifier' to the transmission oil. Problem was fixed.

Maybe a call to the company that makes the transmission oil for the Hyundai could shed some light on this and offer a suggestion.

Hyundai makes their own 8-speed transmission. It uses a specific kind of synthetic transmission fluid (not all synthetic transmission fluids are the same).

I can pretty much guarantee that if you "add a few oz of 'Friction Modifier' to the transmission oil," the transmission will be ruined, and you would out about $8,000 plus labor.

 

[ASHDUMP]

So I took my 2014 Equus with a brand new transmission to work today (45 miles each way) and I can still feel the shudder that I felt before with the original transmission. On mine it is most noticeable at the 20-40 mph range. It definitely seems like the lighter i try to accelerate the worse it gets, almost like its trying to go in too high a gear.

So on the plus side I have 40k miles and a brand new transmission and engine. But the shudder is still there for me too. It doesn't make the car unpleasant to drive but I would expect better for this car. I personally haven't driven any others but I will try to drive a 2016 Equus and compare.

I'm going to have my brother-in-law (much more of a car guy than I am) drive it in a few days and get his input.

You're 100% correct. When you accelerate slowly or lighter it is more noticeable. I always had to remind the tech's/engineers/rep's to accelerate slowly. If you punch it or downshift its a little less noticeable.

I'd be interested in your BIL reaction to the shifting/shuddering.

It does go into 8th.... But not until you have it going 80+

Interesting... I'm almost 100% sure my car doesn't shift into 8th gear even at those speeds. 80MPH is like 55MPH to me. On some stretches of highway around my parts 90MPH is keeping up with the flow of traffic. I'll double check again tomorrow.

800 bucks for a tranny fluid/flush/filer! holy kittens! given your documented issues maybe hyundai would pay for the dealer to perform the maintenance??

I'll see what they say at my next oil change but I'm not optimistic.... and yes, its a lot of cash!

Sounds like a transmission software problem. Given the previous Hyundai scandal about improper MPG ratings, and the VW emissions scandal, Hyundai may not want to change the software since it could effect both EPA mileage and emissions numbers for cars that have already been sold.

Honestly, this was my first reaction. When the shop foreman mentioned it was hunting for optimal efficiency I immediately thought to myself that Hyundai wouldn't change the programming because of the recent scandals. Funny you mention that. All the drive by wire cars now are limited in their performance (my opinion)

Hyundai makes their own 8-speed transmission. It uses a specific kind of synthetic transmission fluid (not all synthetic transmission fluids are the same).

I can pretty much guarantee that if you "add a few oz of 'Friction Modifier' to the transmission oil," the transmission will be ruined, and you would out about $8,000 plus labor.

I agree.... I'd rather have the trans shit out on me under warranty than try to add an additive.

 

[pmckechnie]

I think some of you took my post wrong. I was not recommending that anyone add anything to their transmission.
I said this was food for thought. The problem with the Ford products was the transmission oil. Maybe if you called the maker of the Hyundai transmission oil and mention that Ford had this problem and what they did to fix it, they could shed some light on the problem.
Maybe if you mention this to the dealer techs it would get them thinking about possible causes and some way to fix it.

 

[Mark_888]

I think some of you took my post wrong. I was not recommending that anyone add anything to their transmission.
I said this was food for thought. The problem with the Ford products was the transmission oil. Maybe if you called the maker of the Hyundai transmission oil and mention that Ford had this problem and what they did to fix it, they could shed some light on the problem.
Maybe if you mention this to the dealer techs it would get them thinking about possible causes and some way to fix it.

I believe that it has already been explained that the Genesis 8-speed transmission is made by Hyundai.

There is virtually no chance that a Hyundai dealer would do anything to fix a Genesis transmission, unless a TSB was issued by HMA explaining how to make the fix. For all the transmission problems I have seen posted on this forum, Hyundai dealers replaced the transmission, and did not fix it. Whether HMA rebuilt the transmission when the dealer sent it back, I don't know, but I doubt it.

Dealer techs have no idea how a modern transmission works, or what to do to fix it. It is hard enough to get a Hyundai dealer to change the transmission fluid on a Genesis sedan, and many dealers tell customers that the transmission has a lifetime fluid. The transmission fluid change on the Hyundai 8-speed is not straight forward as it is in older transmissions.

It's not the "old days" any more.

 

[ASHDUMP]

Confirmed that my car only goes through 1-7 gears while in sport mode... at least up to 90mph. I didn't get faster than that this morning.

A little off topic.

 

[TroyK]

A little off topic.

hey just wondering...have you driven a v8 G2? it would be interesting to get your impression of the basically same drivetrain that's in your equus but installed in a different vehicle.

 

[Mark_888]

hey just wondering...have you driven a v8 G2? it would be interesting to get your impression of the basically same drivetrain that's in your equus but installed in a different vehicle.

It is the same, except for electronic controls, such as shift points, etc.

The symptoms reported seem to be consistent with the Equus shifting up too fast in an attempt to get better gas mileage, but loosing sufficient torque. But that is just a guess on my part. I also suspect that fixing it would alter the EPA mileage test, and that may be why they won't fix it.

 

[TroyK]

The symptoms reported seem to be consistent with the Equus shifting up too fast in an attempt to get better gas mileage, but loosing sufficient torque. But that is just a guess on my part. I also suspect that fixing it would alter the EPA mileage test, and that may be why they won't fix it.

perhaps although he mentioned it acts the same in Sport mode which does hold onto lower ratios longer before up-shifting.