Kia Stinger (roughly equivilent to the G70) wins 2018 MotorWeek Drivers Choice Award

[EdP]

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Not only would that be frustrating for prospective buyers (to find out there there isn't a Genesis dealership available within a certain geographic area), but why would Genesis launch an expensive ad campaign for the G70 when sales would be extremely limited due to the small # of retail outlets?

The new Genesis dealers so not have to be up and running but only named. It will take a long time before that stand alone is all built, etc. But a dealer can now advertise themselves as a Genesis dealer. Maybe even a dual launch of new dealers and a new model at the same time. See your authorized Genesis dealer for details. It can also bosst traffic for the chosen dealers. Six months or a year later the dealer can move Genesis to its new location once extablished.

 

[GV70GUY]

What do you mean by "better."

If you read all the reviews from the test drives that were done in Korea when they released the G70 they all said they felt the ride was too soft which was done on the Korean versions because of the type of roads they have and that the US versions would get a stiffer suspension.

"On the highway, the G70 feels more like a luxury car than a sports sedan, mostly because it's quieter inside than a small cathedral. Plus, our Korean-spec test cars had softer suspension settings than the ones America and Europe will get next year. "

This doesn't mean the suspension will be worse when the car hits the US as you know you'll have different settings, so the stiffer suspension for the US may only be when set to "Sport" mode.

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The new Genesis dealers so not have to be up and running but only named. It will take a long time before that stand alone is all built, etc. But a dealer can now advertise themselves as a Genesis dealer. Maybe even a dual launch of new dealers and a new model at the same time. See your authorized Genesis dealer for details. It can also bosst traffic for the chosen dealers. Six months or a year later the dealer can move Genesis to its new location once extablished.

Agree Genesis needs to give dealers time to make the change and decide if they want to be a Genesis dealer going forward. I will bet that for now Genesis will only be asking dealers to commit one way or the other so for now those that do commit can sell the G70 and then be given some time frame as when they do become a full blown Genesis dealer. My local dealer is already working towards that direction where they already have a separate showroom for Genesis.

 

[devellis]

Genesis faces a lot of challenges at this point. they need to get the US-spec car right, need to get the dealership issue sorted, and need to get the cars on the road in the hands of actual owners so that word-of-mouth will spread. That's a lot to pull off in a short time frame. How good the car is relative to its competition, including how good a value it represents, is key to all of these. IF it's a great car at a great price, dealers will want in, people will buy them, and others will start to see them on the roads and in their neighbors' driveways. That will get more people into the dealerships and reward the dealers who have taken the steps necessary to sell the Genesis brand.

The opposite scenario unfolds if the cars don't measure up to the competition or don't represent a superior value. Genesis isn't yet ready to compete head-to-head because it's still an unknown to most potential buyers and brand-new models are perceived as riskier than established ones. They may have QC or design issues and the dealers may not yet know how to sort them out. Those of us here are probably less worried because we're aware of the overlap between the G70 configuration and other models from Hyundai/Kia. But most potential buyers won't be as familiar with all of that. And if the pricing isn't aggressive, they may have little incentive to become familiar with exactly what the Genesis is and what it can offer. That may translate into a dry spell during which dealers are still paying off the costs of having become Genesis sales points while not realizing the anticipated benefits of healthier sales.

I'm really hoping that the former scenario plays out. It will take some courage and humility on the part of Genesis to offer a car as good or better than the competition, in both performance and reliability, while avoiding the temptation to match their price point. Established brands are known quantities with enduring reputations, repeat customers, and existing dealer networks. Genesis has none of this leaving the gate. It needs to build all of those assets and a great product at an attractive price is the only way to get that ball rolling. They really need to think longer-term than just the profitability of the first wave of vehicles if they're going to succeed. Let's hope they do.

 

[Mark_888]

If you read all the reviews from the test drives that were done in Korea when they released the G70 they all said they felt the ride was too soft which was done on the Korean versions because of the type of roads they have and that the US versions would get a stiffer suspension.

"On the highway, the G70 feels more like a luxury car than a sports sedan, mostly because it's quieter inside than a small cathedral. Plus, our Korean-spec test cars had softer suspension settings than the ones America and Europe will get next year. "

This doesn't mean the suspension will be worse when the car hits the US as you know you'll have different settings, so the stiffer suspension for the US may only be when set to "Sport" mode

This is exactly what happened in 2009 with the North American vs Korean suspension. It turned out to be a disaster.

 

[GV70GUY]

Then I guess we'll just have to wait and see, maybe they learned a lesson maybe not. But we all know the first year of any new car are most likely to have some issues that need to be iron out. When the new '84 Corvette came out the suspension was a disaster by '85 and on they resolved most of the issues.

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I'll also add this to what Genesis's has to do, how many Genesis's commercials have anyone seen on TV?

 

[Mark_888]

Then I guess we'll just have to wait and see, maybe they learned a lesson maybe not. But we all know the first year of any new car are most likely to have some issues that need to be iron out. When the new '84 Corvette came out the suspension was a disaster by '85 and on they resolved most of the issues.

I'll also add this to what Genesis's has to do, how many Genesis's commercials have anyone seen on TV?

Maybe they are trying to figure out the suspension right now, and that is what is delaying the US version.

The Genesis LA Open PGA golf tournament starts Thursday, and they will obviously be spending a ton of advertising money on that event.

 

[GV70GUY]

That could be very true, also part of the delay could be trying to get Canada rolled out first. I don't know how big an Organization Genesis is and how big their manufacturing plant is as far as how many cars, in this case the G70, they can produce in a day. Be stupid to announce a US version then have owners wait months to get their car built.

 

[YEH]

You are assuming they are going to only release G70 to dedicated Genesis dealers. I don't think they will have those dealers ready even by the fall, so that idea is going to be suicide if they stick to it.

But from everything else I have seen about Genesis USA, they have no idea what they are doing. Fortunately, the cars are build in Korea, far away from the Genesis USA idiots.

Only person here who has repeatedly been making unsubstantiated assumptions has been you.

The Genesis management has repeatedly stated that they plan on '19MY models to be only available at Genesis dealerships.

Now, whether that becomes reality is another issue, but that is the plan for now.

Even more idiotic would be granting the 350 or so dealerships which can sell the G90 the right to sell the G70 and then take it away from them (don't want to give them any more reason to demand even more compensation for not getting a Genesis store).

The new Genesis dealers so not have to be up and running but only named. It will take a long time before that stand alone is all built, etc. But a dealer can now advertise themselves as a Genesis dealer. Maybe even a dual launch of new dealers and a new model at the same time. See your authorized Genesis dealer for details. It can also bosst traffic for the chosen dealers. Six months or a year later the dealer can move Genesis to its new location once extablished.

A handful of dealerships have already built a stand alone stores with others already having parcels of land on hand to build and the talk is of some dealerships sharing facilities until their permanent ones are ready.

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This is exactly what happened in 2009 with the North American vs Korean suspension. It turned out to be a disaster.

That's b/c Hyundai's USA engineers haven't been very good at tuning suspensions (have been improving in that regard).

Hyundai Australia has far better suspension and steering tuners.

Maybe they are trying to figure out the suspension right now, and that is what is delaying the US version.

Why would figuring out the US spec tuning take any longer (or significantly longer) than for Canada or Australia? - both markets which seem to be on target for an April-May launch.

 

[Mark_888]

Only person here who has repeatedly been making unsubstantiated assumptions has been you.

The Genesis management has repeatedly stated that they plan on '19MY models to be only available at Genesis dealerships.

Now, whether that becomes reality is another issue, but that is the plan for now.

First you claim that I made an unsubstantiated assumption. I have no idea what you are talking about, since assumptions cannot be substantiated, that is why they have to be "assumed." I never claimed that any assumption was proven, which means it might be wrong.

Then you continue on with your own assumption, and then admit that it might not happen (that Genesis will only release 2019 models this fall, when the permanent Genesis dealers are determined or created).

Hyundai Australia has far better suspension and steering tuners.

So what? Hyundai built an engineering and test facility in California desert that they spent many millions of dollars on to do that sort of stuff. Kind of ridiculous that they can't get it done correctly where it is supposed to be done.

Why would figuring out the US spec tuning take any longer (or significantly longer) than for Canada or Australia? - both markets which seem to be on target for an April-May launch.

I have no idea why. But if they don't release the G70 until the fall, I am wondering what they are waiting on. I find it hard to believe they will wait for more independent Genesis dealers, but Genesis USA has done stupider things in the past, so who knows?

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That could be very true, also part of the delay could be trying to get Canada rolled out first. I don't know how big an Organization Genesis is and how big their manufacturing plant is as far as how many cars, in this case the G70, they can produce in a day. Be stupid to announce a US version then have owners wait months to get their car built.

The GM of Genesis USA reports to the CEO of Hyundai Motor America. Genesis Canada reports to Hyundai Canada (which is separate from Hyundai Motor America). I don't know if there is any coordination of the type you are thinking about at the Genesis Worldwide organization to release to Canada first (except for Korea market). That "may" have been a Hyundai Canada decision.

 

[GenesisYEG]

The GM of Genesis USA reports to the CEO of Hyundai Motor America. Genesis Canada reports to Hyundai Canada (which is separate from Hyundai Motor America). I don't know if there is any coordination of the type you are thinking about at the Genesis Worldwide organization to release to Canada first (except for Korea market). That "may" have been a Hyundai Canada decision.

Canada is the test market for the e-commerce distributor model so Genesis Canada has been working with Genesis Korea to get the G70 out in a timely manner. Australia and China will both be basing their distributor models on the Canadian model.

Unfortunately the delay is likely due to the dealership model issue the US is facing, although I do not know when the actual US release is. This delay is one major reason why pricing for the G70 in Canada has not been announced yet.

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[Mark_888]

Canada is the test market for the e-commerce distributor model so Genesis Canada has been working with Genesis Korea to get the G70 out in a timely manner. Australia and China will both be basing their distributor models on the Canadian model.

Unfortunately the delay is likely due to the dealership model issue the US is facing, although I do not know when the actual US release is. This delay is one major reason why pricing for the G70 in Canada has not been announced yet.

As I said previously, if Genesis Motors USA delays the introduction of the G70 (and other 2019 models) until this fall or later just because they don't have the independent Genesis dealer network stuff straightened out yet, I think they are making a big mistake. But it won't be their first mistake. It would be better to change to the 2020 model year before restricting Genesis models sold at existing Hyundai dealers.

Regarding the e-commerce model, that is not legal in the US, so not really relevant.

 

[YEH]

First you claim that I made an unsubstantiated assumption. I have no idea what you are talking about, since assumptions cannot be substantiated, that is why they have to be "assumed." I never claimed that any assumption was proven, which means it might be wrong.

You should check the definition of assumption.

One can certainly make an [incorrect] assumption based on incorrect or incomplete facts/data - or have you simply been pulling things out of thin air?

Then you continue on with your own assumption, and then admit that it might not happen (that Genesis will only release 2019 models this fall, when the permanent Genesis dealers are determined or created).

That Genesis is planning on selling '19MY only at designated Genesis dealerships is not an assumption.

Now, the possibility of delaying the launch of the G70 til later in the year is an assumption, but a logical one based on the facts at hand.

So what? Hyundai built an engineering and test facility in California desert that they spent many millions of dollars on to do that sort of stuff. Kind of ridiculous that they can't get it done correctly where it is supposed to be done.

Like I have stated - they have gotten better, but the point is, their screwing up of the suspension tuning of the 1G Genesis had more to do with their failures - which has little bearing on how the KDM is tuned.

And just b/c they screwed it up before, doesn't mean that they will do so again, esp. when Biermann and his team likely will have had input on tuning (if anything, when the G70 was being tested at the Nurburgring, it probably already had something close to what the US spec tuning would be - w/ the tuning then softened for the Korean market).

I have no idea why. But if they don't release the G70 until the fall, I am wondering what they are waiting on. I find it hard to believe they will wait for more independent Genesis dealers, but Genesis USA has done stupider things in the past, so who knows?

Well, most likely, Genesis isn't going to allow the 350 or so dealerships authorized to sell the G90 to sell the G70 (as that would just compound the problem), much less all Hyundai dealerships.

A likely possibility would be to allow the newly designated Genesis dealers to sell the G70 even if they don't necessarily have separate facilities yet.

But the question remains, how much longer will it take to award the Genesis franchises?

If that's the case, figure around 80-85 just adding the G70 to sales of the G80 and G90 (w/ the other 10-15 stores being awarded to dealer groups which don't have a Hyundai franchise).

 

[BlancaGenny]

I don't think the difference is enough to offset the fact that the Stinger is getting a head start, and has been given the MotorWeek overall Driver's Choice Award for all 2018 vehicles in all categories (and obviously in its own category of Sports Sedans). The G70 will not be eligible for most awards until next year, since it is going to be 2019 model.

If the 3.3 TT on the G70 Dyno's more than the Stinger, that may mean Genesis has tuned it in a way that might reduce reliability.

The 3.3TT is underrated. I'm on the Stinger forum and a guy on there put down 351whp. And yes, it was stock from his words. Figure a conservative 15% powertrain loss, that puts the Stinger at 403hp at the crank.

To back this up, think about the logic. The Santa Fe has the same 3.3 in it minus the turbos with produces 290hp. They are saying two turbos are giving this motor 75 more hp (365hp in the Stinger)? Nuh uh! It's okay to underrate a car, I get it. Cheaper insurance, maybe more appealing to everyday car consumers? Idk. But, I'm sure the applications are the same in both cars with minor details in the intake, transmission, and ECU. The weight is what is making the G70 faster. 5hp is enough to see repetitive gains.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

If you want to know what the G70 is going to feel like, suspension-wise, just go test drive this car...

 

[GV70GUY]

The 3.3TT is underrated. I'm on the Stinger forum and a guy on there put down 351whp. And yes, it was stock from his words. Figure a conservative 15% powertrain loss, that puts the Stinger at 403hp at the crank.

To back this up, think about the logic. The Santa Fe has the same 3.3 in it minus the turbos with produces 290hp. They are saying two turbos are giving this motor 75 more hp (365hp in the Stinger)? Nuh uh! It's okay to underrate a car, I get it. Cheaper insurance, maybe more appealing to everyday car consumers? Idk. But, I'm sure the applications are the same in both cars with minor details in the intake, transmission, and ECU. The weight is what is making the G70 faster. 5hp is enough to see repetitive gains.

75 hp with 2 turbo's is possible it just comes down to the size of the turbo's. The reason some companies do 2 smaller turbo's rather than 1 bigger one is to minimize turbo lag, smaller turbo's spin up faster. I can tell you driving my G80 3.3TT is quick so to your point for the size and weight of this car it feels it has more than 365hp.

 

[GenesisYEG]

As I said previously, if Genesis Motors USA delays the introduction of the G70 (and other 2019 models) until this fall or later just because they don't have the independent Genesis dealer network stuff straightened out yet, I think they are making a big mistake. But it won't be their first mistake. It would be better to change to the 2020 model year before restricting Genesis models sold at existing Hyundai dealers.

Regarding the e-commerce model, that is not legal in the US, so not really relevant.

It is relevant in that Canada is a lead market for Genesis with this new business model so it makes sense why things are full steam ahead in Canada. The US's issues solidify that decision.

 

[Mcc]

It is relevant in that Canada is a lead market for Genesis with this new business model so it makes sense why things are full steam ahead in Canada. The US's issues solidify that decision.

GenesisYEG, There has to be a story behind owning 4 new model Genesis in the last two years. So?

 

[GenesisYEG]

GenesisYEG, There has to be a story behind owning 4 new model Genesis in the last two years. So?

I run Genesis Edmonton so I hop into something new once I sell the car/get bored.

 

[Mcc]

I run Genesis Edmonton so I hop into something new once I sell the car/get bored.

Nice work!

 

[Mark_888]

It is relevant in that Canada is a lead market for Genesis with this new business model so it makes sense why things are full steam ahead in Canada. The US's issues solidify that decision.

Obviously relevant to Canada. But since Canada is already slated to get the G70, most people here are trying to figure out what the Genesis USA clowns are going to do.