Valet and Loaner Vehicles when your Car is being Serviced

[BlancaGenny]

Update on the service:

Finally took the car in. Got a loaner that they had available. Wasn’t a Genesis or a Hyundai for that matter but still got one (CX-3). I don’t care what it is, being shuttled is not ideal for business. They are keeping it overnight; serviceman was still in touch with tech support regarding the rough idle.

 

[BlancaGenny]

Another update:

Tech support is telling the service department to do a top engine clean and see if that is the issue. They want $225 for this and state they will not cover this under warranty. I get that it's a mainenance service but, no where in the owner's manual or service manual does it state that a top engine clean is to be performed. They specify that fuel additives are to be used at oil change intervals, which I do and have records backing that up. If it doesn't solve the issue, I am out $225 and they'll still have the car. Currently waiting for the district manager to call me so I can explain it. Pretty frustrated that they won't try anything else until the top engine service is done. Thoughts? Anybody have this issue?

 

[1FstYota]

Another update:

Tech support is telling the service department to do a top engine clean and see if that is the issue. They want $225 for this and state they will not cover this under warranty. I get that it's a mainenance service but, no where in the owner's manual or service manual does it state that a top engine clean is to be performed. They specify that fuel additives are to be used at oil change intervals, which I do and have records backing that up. If it doesn't solve the issue, I am out $225 and they'll still have the car. Currently waiting for the district manager to call me so I can explain it. Pretty frustrated that they won't try anything else until the top engine service is done. Thoughts? Anybody have this issue?

Top engine clean is the walnut shell blasting to get the gunk off direct injection engines. If anything you gain like a mile or two MPG.

 

[BlancaGenny]

Top engine clean is the walnut shell blasting to get the gunk off direct injection engines. If anything you gain like a mile or two MPG.

The service makes sense, no doubt. What doesn't make sense is them telling me to pay for this "not required" service that "might" be causing the issue while my car is under warranty... Not going to happen.

 

[EdP]

Another update:

Tech support is telling the service department to do a top engine clean and see if that is the issue. They want $225 for this and state they will not cover this under warranty. I get that it's a mainenance service but, no where in the owner's manual or service manual does it state that a top engine clean is to be performed.

You can make a case, but there are many things not covered in the manual that would be considered a maintenance service. such as a corroded exhaust or brake calipers from road salt. Seems, from what I've read, this is fairly common with many engines today. Looks like you can DIY too https://www.quirkyuncle.com/2013/08/27/diy-top-engine-cleaning-decarbonization/

Maybe you can negotiate a big discount. Good luck.

 

[1FstYota]

The service makes sense, no doubt. What doesn't make sense is them telling me to pay for this "not required" service that "might" be causing the issue while my car is under warranty... Not going to happen.

I get where your coming from, but its like cellphone companies tell you to hard reset the phone first before they troubleshoot, yes its annoying. just keep on their ass maybe they will forget about it.

 

[Mark_888]

Another update:

Tech support is telling the service department to do a top engine clean and see if that is the issue. They want $225 for this and state they will not cover this under warranty. I get that it's a mainenance service but, no where in the owner's manual or service manual does it state that a top engine clean is to be performed. They specify that fuel additives are to be used at oil change intervals, which I do and have records backing that up. If it doesn't solve the issue, I am out $225 and they'll still have the car. Currently waiting for the district manager to call me so I can explain it. Pretty frustrated that they won't try anything else until the top engine service is done. Thoughts? Anybody have this issue?

This is a characteristic of GDI (gasoline direct injection) engines. The fuel bypasses the intake valves via the direct injectors, so the detergents in the gas cannot clean the valves. So it is considered to a feature of GDI engines, rather than a manufacturing or design defect covered by warranty.

GDI is being implemented to gain slightly better MPG because of CAFE (corporate average fleet economy) federal standards that are getting tougher each year. This is the same reason why transmissions are getting more speeds (often resulting in shifting problems, and more, but smaller, less robust gears). Also coming is the use of lower viscosity oil for better fuel economy (expect to see 0W-16 oil shortly). All of this is at the expense of powertrain longevity.

 

[BlancaGenny]

You can make a case, but there are many things not covered in the manual that would be considered a maintenance service. such as a corroded exhaust or brake calipers from road salt. Seems, from what I've read, this is fairly common with many engines today. Looks like you can DIY too https://www.quirkyuncle.com/2013/08/27/diy-top-engine-cleaning-decarbonization/

Maybe you can negotiate a big discount. Good luck.

I get where your coming from, but its like cellphone companies tell you to hard reset the phone first before they troubleshoot, yes its annoying. just keep on their ass maybe they will forget about it.

They called and said they aren't budging on trying anything else until that's done. I'm just having them do the f****** service. They gave me 25% off which I can't complain about but still, a prime example of how Tech Support/HMA wants your money.

This is a characteristic of GDI (gasoline direct injection) engines. The fuel bypasses the intake valves via the direct injectors, so the detergents in the gas cannot clean the valves. So it is considered to a feature of GDI engines, rather than a manufacturing or design defect covered by warranty.

GDI is being implemented to gain slightly better MPG because of CAFE (corporate average fleet economy) federal standards that are getting tougher each year. This is the same reason why transmissions are getting more speeds (often resulting in shifting problems, and more, but smaller, less robust gears). Also coming is the use of lower viscosity oil for better fuel economy (expect to see 0W-16 oil shortly). All of this is at the expense of powertrain longevity.

I can't say I've heard about this being a known issue with GDi motors. I had a '15 Sonata that ran as it should w/52k miles. Heck, I think almost their whole line-up, including most KIA's, are GDis. If that's the way cars are going now-a-days, I could care less. However, it should be in the service interval or owner's manual to have this top engine clean done at various points in its' life. That goes for all GDis. In the future, I will probably be doing this every 20k miles or so if it is, indeed, what is causing the rough idle. If they come back and tell me that's not it, lol.... That'll be a fun day for them.

 

[Mark_888]

I can't say I've heard about this being a known issue with GDi motors.

Google "GDI carbon buildup"

About 58,500 results. When you are done reading them, let us know what you think about it.

 

[BlancaGenny]

I've made it a point to try and not use the car in such a way to avoid the "lumpy idle". Not sure if this is what you're experiencing. The idle clears within 20 seconds or so.

Exact same. Idles rough for about 15-20 seconds and corrects itself.

Google "GDI carbon buildup"

About 58,500 results. When you are done reading them, let us know what you think about it.

I don't know if that is sarcasm or you actually want my opinions regarding it. Either way, that statement was me stating I haven't heard of the idle issue all that much, not about the carbon buildup in the GDi motors.

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[Mark_888]

I don't know if that is sarcasm or you actually want my opinions regarding it. Either way, that statement was me stating I haven't heard of the idle issue all that much, not about the carbon buildup in the GDi motors.

It wasn't sarcasm. I thought you had not heard about carbon build up issues of GDI engines. My understanding is that they are saying it is caused by carbon buildup that can be improved with a top engine clean (walnut shells, etc).

 

[BlancaGenny]

It wasn't sarcasm. I thought you had not heard about carbon build up issues of GDI engines. My understanding is that they are saying it is caused by carbon buildup that can be improved with a top engine clean (walnut shells, etc).

Yes, I've heard of it plenty of times. The fact that my car is showing symptoms from carbon build-up (possibly) was new to me.

 

[Mark_888]

Yes, I've heard of it plenty of times. The fact that my car is showing symptoms from carbon build-up (possibly) was new to me.

I have no idea if that is your idle problem or not.

 

[BlancaGenny]

I have no idea if that is your idle problem or not.

We'll see. They are doing the cleaning today. I guess the rear diff cover was leaking a bit so they fixed that yesterday.

I walked in to talk to the district manager and saw a white genesis with a cracked bumper. Thought it was mine for a split second. That would've made my day super.

 

[RyanB]

My car has been idling rough for a few months now and when it was recently in they stated it was perfectly normal. Last night I used the Seafoam Spray in the throttle body and split a can of the regular Seafoam 1/3 in the oil and the rest in 1/2 a tank of gas. Now I only drove it hard for about 30 minutes last night and an hour or so today but the idle is definitely smoother. Might be from the cleaner or it might just still relearning itself from the cleaning but it’s definitely smoother.

 

[BlancaGenny]

My car has been idling rough for a few months now and when it was recently in they stated it was perfectly normal. Last night I used the Seafoam Spray in the throttle body and split a can of the regular Seafoam 1/3 in the oil and the rest in 1/2 a tank of gas. Now I only drove it hard for about 30 minutes last night and an hour or so today but the idle is definitely smoother. Might be from the cleaner or it might just still relearning itself from the cleaning but it’s definitely smoother.

Is your issue only on cold starts or is this constant?

 

[1FstYota]

I drove my last genny pretty hard depending on situation, I think these motors will be fine most times if you just get some heat in them to burn some of it off.

 

[RyanB]

Is your issue only on cold starts or is this constant?

Both. Its always rough when cold, but some days after it warms up its smooth until you turn it off only to become rough and stay rough once you restart it after an hour or two of sitting. Dealer said nothing is wrong with the mounts but in the next week or two I'm going to get it in the air to rotate the tires and change the oil and I'm going to check them myself.

 

[waz]

Looks like you can DIY too https://www.quirkyuncle.com/2013/08/27/diy-top-engine-cleaning-decarbonization/

OK - the "top engine cleaning" seen here doesn't do much for the reason Mark_888 mentions: the fuel/air mixture is injected directly into the cylinders and never touches the valves. Injecting anything into the intake system of a GDI engine is pretty much worthless since it doesn't reach the valves to break up the carbon deposits.

The $225 "top engine clean" by the dealer is exactly what this DIY method shows - spraying the equivalent of Sea Foam into the intake tract, and while that does some good with intake injection engines, it doesn't do much on GDI engines.

It is, in my opinion, the equivalent of dealers charging $500 for nitrogen filled tires when the air we breathe is 78.02% nitrogen already.

For the dealer to actually remove the cylinder heads and walnut shell blast the combustion chambers and valves would cost well over $1000 in labor.

Putting 1/2 a can of Sea Foam in the block when you do an oil change would be far more effective at preventing carbonization of the valves than this spray cleaning method is at removing it.

 

[1FstYota]

Walnut blasting does not require the heads to be removed. Lexus v6 had port and direct injection which kinda eliminated this problem.