Factory Oil Filter Only??

[kn5owa]

There was a TSB issued on non- OEM cartridge Filters issued by Hyundai way back when, like 10 years ago.

The TSB emphatically said not to use them

 

[QuantumRift]

With oil filters, often, what you pay for is what you get. Hence, I do NOT buy "FRAM" or any other oil filter that's on Walmart's shelves. They are like, $5 there for a reason.

Having said, that, there ARE GREAT aftermarket filters you can use. I ONLY use NAPA (gold, platinum, etc) or WIX filters (K&N also makes a HIGH QUALITY product)...you do NOT need to use Hyundai OEM filters (they are good, but don't be fooled into thinking that they are the ONLY ones to use). There are other great after market filters that meet or exceed Hyuudai OEM specs as well.

Here's a great website to become familiar with: It's called "BOB IS THE OIL GUY" and he IS. IT is THE site to go for OIL, filter, etc information.

A friend of mine is a service writer at my local Hyundai dealer and he told me that the head mechanic at his dealership told him that an aftermarket oil filter will cause the engine to blow up, what?

Anyone else heard of this?

 

[Mark_888]

With oil filters, often, what you pay for is what you get. Hence, I do NOT buy "FRAM" or any other oil filter that's on Walmart's shelves. They are like, $5 there for a reason.

Having said, that, there ARE GREAT aftermarket filters you can use. I ONLY use NAPA (gold, platinum, etc) or WIX filters (K&N also makes a HIGH QUALITY product)...you do NOT need to use Hyundai OEM filters (they are good, but don't be fooled into thinking that they are the ONLY ones to use). There are other great after market filters that meet or exceed Hyuudai OEM specs as well.

Here's a great website to become familiar with: It's called "BOB IS THE OIL GUY" and he IS. IT is THE site to go for OIL, filter, etc information.

There are two issues:

1. For a metal spin on filter, it is easy to make a high quality after-market one, and safe to use. Other than the screw thread, none of the other measurements are critical, and the filter can be larger than the OEM filter for better performance. But for a cartridge filter, it must fit exactly inside the cartridge housing. That makes it much safer to use the OEM because you know it fits exactly. Even when the after-market filters are good quality and fit some Genesis models, there have been mix-ups by some brands as to which filter fits which Genesis engine (depending on model year and engine).

2. When it comes to the cartridge filter for the Genesis, most of the after-market brands that sell one don't make their own filter and some of them rely on the same manufacturer who made the OEM filter for Hyundai (usually Mahle, who also makes the oil filter housing system used by the Genesis). Some other brands use other sources.

If an after-market filter for a recent Genesis is not made by Mahle (or whoever makes the OEM filter for Hyundai), I would not trust that it fits correctly, so why even take the chance and buy anything but the OEM? Having the best filter element and sturdy end caps is only half the story for a cartridge filter. Even if the end-caps on an after-market filter are more solid than the OEM filters, if they don't fit the cartridge housing exactly, they can cause lots of problems.

For the many years I have owned cars, I have almost always used high quality after-market oil filters. But I have not, and would not, do that for a cartridge system oil filter like on the Genesis.

Bob's The Oil Guy does have a lot of members and a lot of posts. Bob died quite a few years ago and it is "run" by his wife. But I find that most of the information posted on that site is rumor or folklore, so hard to know which info is correct unless you already know a lot about oil. Also, that site takes a lot of advertising money from motor oil companies (such as Pennzoil), which I think skews the advice on that site.

 

[QuantumRift]

Sorry, but I disagree - other than the FIRST oil change done by the dealer in 2011, I have CONSISTENTLY used NAPA and WIX filters because they ARE built to exact standards. Never, EVER had issues.

As for the BOB site, yea, he's gone and YEA if you look for the TRUE info, you'll find it. But like here, there's a lot of 'fake' info being spread by so-called experts. I However, just staying that ONLY Hyundai OEM Filters are 'exact' is BS, pure and simple. My engine isn't wearing out or blowing up. I do oil analysis and I KNOW the filters I use are built to exacting standards BECAUSE I know what's going on in my OIL and crankcase. They do what they were designed to do - filter oil and filter it well. You can love OEM filters all you want. Hyundai cannot FAIL a warranty claim for engines 'blowing up' unless there is DEFINITE proof that an aftermarket filter caused it. Carry the Hyundai OEM only filter banner as high as you want, but it won't change the fact that a a NAPA or WIX filter will do the same job, even BETTER than an OEM filter. I used to "think" the same way about the Suzuki oil filters for my motorcycle. Yet, YET, I have found as well, that a NAPA or WIX filter works just as good or better, and is cheaper than a Suzuki OEM filter. Yes, I also have the oil analyzed in my motorcycle as well, because I am a stickler for knowing what's going on my oil. And if anything, the motorcycle would be even more prone to wear and tear by a crappy filter.

Yea, they go round and round and round arguing "which is the best" filter. I have a CAT 3126 engine in my diesel PUSHER RV. I also use NAPA or WIX for it as well,l not expensive CAT filters. Never, ever, had problems with good quality filters...I even have a 1990 Isuzu SpaceCab LS 4x4 I keep running, and bought it new in 1989. It now has nearly 250,000 miles on the ORIGINAL unrebuilt OEM engine, and nearly every oil change has been synthetic oil and a high quality oil filter (and NO, I never used the "Isuzu oil filters"). If one does their diligent research on oil filters, one will be rewarded with a wealth of information that says "you do not NEED to buy the HIGH PRICED OEM filters".

I get the best bang for my buck, period. My parents lived thru the Great Depression and instilled in me to always buy quality. That's one reason I bought the Genny.


Part Details

There are two issues:

1. For a metal spin on filter, it is easy to make a high quality after-market one, and safe to use. Other than the screw thread, none of the other measurements are critical, and the filter can be larger than the OEM filter for better performance. But for a cartridge filter, it must fit exactly inside the cartridge housing. That makes it much safer to use the OEM because you know it fits exactly. Even when the after-market filters are good quality and fit some Genesis models, there have been mix-ups by some brands as to which filter fits which Genesis engine (depending on model year and engine).

2. When it comes to the cartridge filter for the Genesis, most of the after-market brands that sell one don't make their own filter and some of them rely on the same manufacturer who made the OEM filter for Hyundai (usually Mahle, who also makes the oil filter housing system used by the Genesis). Some other brands use other sources.

If an after-market filter for a recent Genesis is not made by Mahle (or whoever makes the OEM filter for Hyundai), I would not trust that it fits correctly, so why even take the chance and buy anything but the OEM? Having the best filter element and sturdy end caps is only half the story for a cartridge filter. Even if the end-caps on an after-market filter are more solid than the OEM filters, if they don't fit the cartridge housing exactly, they can cause lots of problems.

For the many years I have owned cars, I have almost always used high quality after-market oil filters. But I have not, and would not, do that for a cartridge system oil filter like on the Genesis.

Bob's The Oil Guy does have a lot of members and a lot of posts. Bob died quite a few years ago and it is "run" by his wife. But I find that most of the information posted on that site is rumor or folklore, so hard to know which info is correct unless you already know a lot about oil. Also, that site takes a lot of advertising money from motor oil companies (such as Pennzoil), which I think skews the advice on that site.

 

[Mark_888]

Sorry, but I disagree - other than the FIRST oil change done by the dealer in 2011, I have CONSISTENTLY used NAPA and WIX filters because they ARE built to exact standards. Never, EVER had issues.

How do you know those filters from NAPA and WIX are not made by the same company that makes the Genesis OEM filters?

Even if they are different than the OEM, how do you know they work just as well? Even if there was a problem with the fit, you might not notice it. You might not notice a problem even if you ran your engine without a filter.

Like I said, quality of components is one thing, but exact fit on a cartridge system is a different matter.

 

[QuantumRift]

WIX makes filters for NAPA and many other 'name brand' companies. I don't exclusively use WIX but I do my research. You apparently misread my comment. I get bang for the buck. I don't pay TOP DOLLAR FOR TOP QUALITY when I can get TOP QUALITY for medium dollar. That's all. I am speaking from oh, 45 years of EXPERIENCE with oil and oil filters. I've cut them apart, picked them apart (just like they do on YouTube now, but I was doing back in the 70's) and compared them side by side. I'm not SAYING that a Hyundai oil filter is bad. Or substandard. I'm saying that IF you take it to a dealer and IF they charge you separately for a filter, you'll pay for it. Nowadays, if most places offer a $20 oil change (some still do) and you can get an OEM filter, go for it. I've even used the JIFFY LUBE-like places as well but I always, ALWAYS take my own filter if I do so (only when I have limited time). SO yea, I observe and know a lo of things. A lot of it is commons sense. And there ARE things to stay awake at night worrying about, but oil filters isn't one of them. I know that back in '16, that an "average" oil change for the Genesis cost between oh, $80 and $105. I prefer to do my OWN. So I go for price and quality, that's all. If I make a special trip to drive 15 miles to the dealer for the filter I don't want to pay more than, say for a WIX filter I can get closer to home. As for the FIT, you do NOT have to 'worry' about the FIT of a WIX filter. I"m just not that OCD about it.

Engine Oil Filter Study

As far as 'knowing there was a problem with fit', I damn well would notice it. The oil analysis tells you IMMEDIATELY. How do I know that? Had a good friend who had his oil analysis done. His analysis indicated there was silica, as in SAND particles, in his oil. Seems that he eventually found a bad seal on his air intake box and it was sucking UNFILTERED air on the other side of the air filter...living in AZ, a hot and dusty environment, you would suck a lot of sand or dirt into your engine. Well, he got the results back, and had it gone on undetected, he would have ruined his engine with excessive wear...dirt was being sucked into the engine and it ended up in his oil.

SO that's how I know. A poorly or non-functioning filter will cause CONTAMINATION very quickly and that's a red flag. Like I said, I've been doing this for 45 years so I do have some experience.

Buy what you want but Hyundai does NOT have the market on precision-made oil filters. Oh, how do you know that, say, the oil filter in your hand was made on a day where one of the employees had a bad day and did something bad...you don't.

How do you know those filters from NAPA and WIX are not made by the same company that makes the Genesis OEM filters?

Even if they are different than the OEM, how do you know they work just as well? Even if there was a problem with the fit, you might not notice it. You might not notice a problem even if you ran your engine without a filter.

Like I said, quality of components is one thing, but exact fit on a cartridge system is a different matter.

 

[Mark_888]

WIX makes filters for NAPA and many other 'name brand' companies. I don't exclusively use WIX but I do my research. You apparently misread my comment. I get bang for the buck. I don't pay TOP DOLLAR FOR TOP QUALITY when I can get TOP QUALITY for medium dollar. That's all. I am speaking from oh, 45 years of EXPERIENCE with oil and oil filters. I've cut them apart, picked them apart (just like they do on YouTube now, but I was doing back in the 70's) and compared them side by side. I'm not SAYING that a Hyundai oil filter is bad. Or substandard. I'm saying that IF you take it to a dealer and IF they charge you separately for a filter, you'll pay for it. Nowadays, if most places offer a $20 oil change (some still do) and you can get an OEM filter, go for it. I've even used the JIFFY LUBE-like places as well but I always, ALWAYS take my own filter if I do so (only when I have limited time). SO yea, I observe and know a lo of things. A lot of it is commons sense. And there ARE things to stay awake at night worrying about, but oil filters isn't one of them. I know that back in '16, that an "average" oil change for the Genesis cost between oh, $80 and $105. I prefer to do my OWN. So I go for price and quality, that's all. If I make a special trip to drive 15 miles to the dealer for the filter I don't want to pay more than, say for a WIX filter I can get closer to home. As for the FIT, you do NOT have to 'worry' about the FIT of a WIX filter. I"m just not that OCD about it.

Engine Oil Filter Study

As far as 'knowing there was a problem with fit', I damn well would notice it. The oil analysis tells you IMMEDIATELY. How do I know that? Had a good friend who had his oil analysis done. His analysis indicated there was silica, as in SAND particles, in his oil. Seems that he eventually found a bad seal on his air intake box and it was sucking UNFILTERED air on the other side of the air filter...living in AZ, a hot and dusty environment, you would suck a lot of sand or dirt into your engine. Well, he got the results back, and had it gone on undetected, he would have ruined his engine with excessive wear...dirt was being sucked into the engine and it ended up in his oil.

SO that's how I know. A poorly or non-functioning filter will cause CONTAMINATION very quickly and that's a red flag. Like I said, I've been doing this for 45 years so I do have some experience.

Buy what you want but Hyundai does NOT have the market on precision-made oil filters. Oh, how do you know that, say, the oil filter in your hand was made on a day where one of the employees had a bad day and did something bad...you don't.

I do agree with you on almost all points you made. But what I am asking is, how do you know that the Wix (or whatever) after-market filter is not really made by Mahle (who makes the Genesis OEM filter)?

I know in the old days, each filter company made their own filters, but these days in order to offer a complete distribution of filters for every single vehicle, they usually just get other manufacturers to make some of the filters to sell under their own brand name, especially the lower volume filters. It is just not cost effective for each company to make 100% of the filters they sell. Economy of scale is key to this business.

Regarding the Oil Filter Study, I read that years ago (Copyright © 1996-2003). Unfortunately the info in now obsolete as to specific brands and filter models. The manufacturing business has changed dramatically in the last 10-15 years, with extensive use of contract manufacturing and outsourcing of manufacturing to other firms for certain product lines. Plus, all the filters evaluated were a spin-on metal filter that fit an "early Ford 5.0L V8 engine" (details not specified in the study, but obviously not a cartridge filter).

I do my own oil changes, because I also believe in quality. That is why I order the OEM Genesis filters from dealers who sell them online for a very good price (or occasionally got a them from local dealer parts department).

Regarding Hyundai filters, they don't make them (as I think I explained above). Hyundai doesn't even make the oil filter module for the Genesis. They get both the oil filter module and the filters from Mahle (as do many other luxury car manufacturers):
MAHLE North America | Oil filter modules
Check out the video on "Patented MAHLE pin element for fluid filters"

I prefer to use the oil filters made by the same company that makes the oil filter module. If we were talking about spin-on metal filter, that is completely different and a good quality after-market filter is fine, or even preferable.

 

[QuantumRift]

WIX makes filters, they are not a reseller. Point is, use a quality product and you'll not go wrong. You give me a link to bulk (4 or more) of the Hyundai OEM filers for a good price and I'll be on 'em!

 

[QuantumRift]

See, this is all you can find on Amazon for 2012 Genny 3.8L filters:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=au_pf_...012-3-6832-2192--1-6-7-16706-2653-1-1-3644--3

 

[QuantumRift]

I think this deal works out to just over $6.30 a filter (for 15!)...now that's a good deal.

10 Pcs Hyundai Genuine OEM Oil filter kit 263203C30A Genesis Coupe 3.8L | eBay


oops, only the PHOTO shows 15 filters...the ad copy says "10"...well, even at under $10 I'd still be interested...LOL

BUT

a little further down the list, this shows up: Yes, a LOT OF 15...

Lot of 15 : Hyundai Genuine OEM Oil filter kit # 263203C100 3.3L,3.8L Engines | eBay

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[Mark_888]

WIX makes filters, they are not a reseller. Point is, use a quality product and you'll not go wrong. You give me a link to bulk (4 or more) of the Hyundai OEM filers for a good price and I'll be on 'em!

I didn't say Wix doest make filters. I said that Wix does not make every single filter in their catalog. No one does.

Here are some online dealer websites:
hyundaiparts | Hyundai Parts | Hyundai Replacement Parts
Hyundai Parts and Accessories | HyundaiPartsDepartment.com
Genuine Hyundai Parts | Jim Ellis Hyundai Parts
OEM Hyundai Parts | Wholesale Hyundai Parts
Hyundai Replacement Parts - Genuine Hyundai Parts

If they are not in your state, no sales tax, but there is shipping cost. But if you order a bunch of oil, air, cabin filters at one time, shipping is negligible per item.

The last website above is in Michigan, so may be lowest shipping cost to Ohio. There are other also.

 

[Mark_888]

I think this deal works out to just over $6.30 a filter (for 15!)...now that's a good deal.

10 Pcs Hyundai Genuine OEM Oil filter kit 263203C30A Genesis Coupe 3.8L | eBay

That is for the coupe, not sedan. Might be same one, or might not be.

 

[QuantumRift]

263209-3C30A for sedan.

WIX part #: Part Details

That is for the coupe, not sedan. Might be same one, or might not be.

 

[Audio]

"I've never had a problem"(yet) is anecdotal, not scientific or statistically proven. Take it with a grain of salt, like anything you read on the internet, but when it comes to cartridge filters, why take any risks? You may have had great luck with WIX so far, WIX may make the factory filters for Hyundai(and they may not. I'm not here to do research on who makes what at the moment).

What I will add to this discussion is this: As someone who's been in the auto repair industry for my entire working life, I highly recommend sticking to the factory filter on any vehicle with a cartridge filter. I guess most people may not be up on it, but do you happen to recall the major engine oiling issue Ford had years back? It was because of people using out of spec non-OEM cartridge filters. 100% proven to be because the filters were not fitting properly.

So, especially with the package deals on OEM filters in places like Amazon, why try to save a buck or two per filter at the expense of taking a chance? Whatever filter manufacturer Hyundai went with (Mahle, I think?) is exactly what the filter housing was built to take. By using strictly Hyundai filters you are guaranteeing there will be 0 fitment issue. So why risk it? Or more importantly, why use YOUR SINGLE personal experience to push so hard for others to follow suit when it's been PROVEN that non-factory cartridge filters cannot be guaranteed to fit properly(and not just in the big Ford debacle), and that factory filters will?

 

[QuantumRift]

Take it how ever YOU want to take it. Engine oil, and especially oil filter and arguments on the internet are a dime a dozen. I have NO issues with the OEM filters. I have no ISSUES with KNOWN high-quality after market filters as well. I will continue to point out how WIX and other similar HIGH QUALITY products can do just as good a job or even better than a Hyundai or Toyota or Suzuki or "GM" filters...or Motorcraft. Oh, yea, WIX will stand behind their filters as well. So it would follow that if a company was intentionally making CRAPPY products (as you no doubt think WIX is) they won't stay in business long. So I'm not leading anybody 'astray' by [GASP] suggesting that they can get as good or better quaility in a filter as OEM IF they are intelligent enough to do some of their own research. And while you denigrate "personal experience' as any 'guide', I can tell you that I keep my vehicles for LONG periods of time. As I mentioned, I have a 1990 Isuzu pickup with almost 250K miles on ORIGINAL engine, and yet, YET, I've ONLY used aftermarket filters (NAPA, WIX, and other KNOWN high quality products). And yet, yet, by your reasoning I should have wrecked my engine long ago as I've never uses an ISUZU oil filter. I have a 2004 GMC Envoy XUV as well that keeps on trucking with aftermarket filters, as does my SUZUKI motorcycle. So you can stand on your soap box and try to beat down any suggestions that anything other than an OEM filter will destroy your engine by 'rolling the dice'. As I explained, if I get a BAD filter (and you can get a BAD OEM filter as well) I'll know pretty quick as I keep a check on my oil and what's in it. That's prob a LOT more than most owners do. I can know presence of aluminum, coolant, unburnt hydrocarbons, and other aspects.....

I do remember the Ford issues. Or at least the Powerstroke issues...oil change places were discarding the Ford part of the cap or something and installing their cheap filters or some such thing.

Point is, it's SCARE tactics for a service tech at a DEALER to try and frighten a poor soul into ONLY buying Hyundai filters. Or ONLY getting their wipers and cabin filter changed at the Dealer. Or TIRES. I had my Genny in for recall a couple of weeks ago and I was waiting in the lounge, which was pretty crowded as it is a large dealership. The conversations I overhead there, by a 'tech writer' urging this procedure, or that maintenance (at substantial costs) almost choked me. And that happens here, in AZ, wherever. I overheard the case for a $60 Hyundai-only cabine filter install....and another conversation was urging the customer that ONLY Hyundai branded coolant would work and any other brand would void their warranty. I wanted to THROW my bag of popcorn at the guy. But I digress. You have your opinion and that's fine. I have my opinion, which is supported by an overwhelming amount of real world data that simply says that properly installed, high quality aftermarket filters won't DESTROY your engine.

Like I said, oil and oil filter arguments are a dime a dozen on the internet (and they get as bad as political or religious arguments). Such is life.

"I've never had a problem"(yet) is anecdotal, not scientific or statistically proven. Take it with a grain of salt, like anything you read on the internet, but when it comes to cartridge filters, why take any risks? You may have had great luck with WIX so far, WIX may make the factory filters for Hyundai(and they may not. I'm not here to do research on who makes what at the moment).

What I will add to this discussion is this: As someone who's been in the auto repair industry for my entire working life, I highly recommend sticking to the factory filter on any vehicle with a cartridge filter. I guess most people may not be up on it, but do you happen to recall the major engine oiling issue Ford had years back? It was because of people using out of spec non-OEM cartridge filters. 100% proven to be because the filters were not fitting properly.

So, especially with the package deals on OEM filters in places like Amazon, why try to save a buck or two per filter at the expense of taking a chance? Whatever filter manufacturer Hyundai went with (Mahle, I think?) is exactly what the filter housing was built to take. By using strictly Hyundai filters you are guaranteeing there will be 0 fitment issue. So why risk it? Or more importantly, why use YOUR SINGLE personal experience to push so hard for others to follow suit when it's been PROVEN that non-factory cartridge filters cannot be guaranteed to fit properly(and not just in the big Ford debacle), and that factory filters will?

 

[Audio]

Wow. You have quite the temper and get easily offended. Have a freaking beer and take a deep breath, bub. Hahaha Jesus Christ...
That aside, it's not about quality of materials, it's about actual dimension tolerances. It has been shown that some(and I never singled out WIX in any way, but make whatever assumptions you need to get by) brands of cartridge filters are not made to the same specs. They could be slightly smaller, larger, etc causing issues with how they fit once the filter and cap are screwed back into place. That's where the concern is if you don't get the factory filter or a filter you know was manufactured by whichever manufacturer makes the factory ones(see how I didn't get all 'evil dealer' on you and say ONLY Hyundai branded). Also, when talking about this specific issue, it's hardly comparable to mention your 1990 Suzuki that no doubt takes screw on filters and not cartridge filters. That is not at all an issue. They simply need to have the right threads, oil passages, and proper diameter gasket. Again, maybe try to understand that some people know things and those things might not align with what you said, or may not align with what you think is the one and only righteous way, but that doesn't make that information less true. Ford is not the only company running cartridge filters where some filter manufacturers are making filters that are not 100% to the factory dimensions. Whether it causes problems on a widespread scale or not, why risk it to save a dollar or two? That's my point to be made. If you are comfortable using WIX filters, keep doing so. I don't recall saying anything negative about you doing so.

 

[QuantumRift]

Hardly. And I don't need a "f------g" beer, if that's your "psychoanalysis" answer. And yes, a quality filter will have quality dimensions. A manufacturer that will skimp on the quality of the parts will invariably skimp on the tolerances. That's from the School of Common Sense.

 

[Mark_888]

Hardly. And I don't need a "f------g" beer, if that's your "psychoanalysis" answer. And yes, a quality filter will have quality dimensions. A manufacturer that will skimp on the quality of the parts will invariably skimp on the tolerances. That's from the School of Common Sense.

Some of the after-market cartridge filters use one filter for two different applications, or they are not always up to date when an engineering change is made to the cannister.

If you look at the official OEM part numbers for Hyundai Genesis or Genesis Motors G80 over the years, there have been multiple different OEM oil filter part numbers (even when engine "appears" to be same), but often only one after-market part number.

 

[Audio]

Also, all arguments aside, I think it's safe to say we ALL need a beer...if for no other reason than beer is fantastic.

 

[QuantumRift]

I'll have the beer later - LOL..right now I'm on my morning mug of coffee....

Also, all arguments aside, I think it's safe to say we ALL need a beer...if for no other reason than beer is fantastic.