New Luxury SUV's from Rolls Royce and Aston Martin

[Mark_888]

Again, Hyundai did not have an existing suitable platform (even FWD)

That's not my problem, that is Hyundai's problem. Please, no more excuses. An explanation of previously incompetent actions is not a valid excuse.

The Genesis brand was launched in Korea in late 2015.

That is pure semantics and generally speaking BS. There was no Hyundai flying H or other identifying Hyundai markings on the 2009-2016 Genesis sold in Korea. The first Korean model in 2008 was the Genesis BH380 and Genesis BH460 (not the Hyundai Genesis BH380 or BH460).

 

[Mark_888]

The question I have is: are you planning on buying a GV90 and is the timeline that they have laid out for a few years causing issues for you with a pending new vehicle purchase need? If not, why the hell are you so obsessed with bitching about how bad you perceive everything to be at Genesis?

My next vehicle will be a SUV, but I am not pissed about whether it is a Genesis or not.

I have made some rather obvious comments about the gross malfeasance in the Genesis brand rollout and dealer selection process in the USA, and also the big mistakes that Hyundai and Genesis have made regarding SUV's (which is obvious to any objective person, including those who run Hyundai), and people keep telling me I am wrong, so I keep having to defend my point of view. In my over nine years on this forum, I have started a "relatively" few number of threads, and I mostly just respond to people who claim I am wrong. When I don't respond, they bitch and moan that I am ignoring them.

 

[joneillnj]

My next vehicle will be a SUV, but I am not pissed about whether it is a Genesis or not.

I have made some rather obvious comments about the gross malfeasance in the Genesis brand rollout and dealer selection process in the USA, and also the big mistakes that Hyundai and Genesis have made regarding SUV's (which is obvious to any objective person, including those who run Hyundai), and people keep telling me I am wrong, so I keep having to defend my point of view. In my over nine years on this forum, I have started a "relatively" few number of threads, and I mostly just respond to people who claim I am wrong. When I don't respond, they bitch and moan that I am ignoring them.

Actually, you make little sense and you just come across as bitter and having an axe to grind with a 2 year old standalone brand because you disagree with their roadmap.

 

[YEH]

I was watching a science fiction movie about 10 years ago, and everyone was driving a SUV. The future is now. The sedan is dead.

The sedan is diminished, but not dead. The G80 is the best vehicle on the market for me. Maybe 5 days a year I wish I still had a convertible but the other 360 is windows up and climate control.

Not in Korea - which is Genesis' largest market, as well as one of the most profitable for MB and BMW (largely on the basis of E/S Class and 5/7 Series sales).

As stated in the sales thread, the G80 sold over 3k units and the G70 over 1k last month in SK, and combined G90 and K9 sales was over 2,100.

There wasn't any delay in deciding to create the Hyundai Genesis RWD, Hyundai Equus RWD, and even the G70 RWD, well before there was a separate brand in the USA for Genesis. Beyond that, someone obviously thought that the G70 was more important than a SUV.

But there was a delay in bringing AWD to the Genesis and Equus - didn't happen until the 2G Genesis and G90 (when that platform was engineered to incorporate AWD).

As for the G70 - you're wrong about its platform.

It's simply a modified version of the current platform that underpins the G80 and G90.

The G70 isn't exactly a lightweight and for that matter, neither is the Kia Stinger (much has been stated about the rather porky weight of the Stinger).

It's not like Hyundai/Genesis can all of a sudden be great at doing everything at once.

The 1G models not only didn't have available AWD, but the driving dynamics were subpar.

The chassis underpinning the 2G models was much better when it came to driving dynamics, but still suffered from prodigious weight.

The next step for Genesis to keep improving on driving dynamics and to cut weight (this, also helping in the driving dynamics front).

That's not my problem, that is Hyundai's problem. Please, no more excuses. An explanation of previously incompetent actions is not a valid excuse.

Like I had stated numerous times previously, can't expect Hyundai/Genesis to catch up in every respect in 1 generations time.

Well, I guess it was BMW's problem that they didn't have a lightweight platform (CLAR) until recently to do the X7.

That is pure semantics and generally speaking BS. There was no Hyundai flying H or other identifying Hyundai markings on the 2009-2016 Genesis sold in Korea. The first model was the Genesis BH380 and Genesis BH460 (not the Hyundai Genesis BH380 or BH460).

Again, b/c in Korea (as in Japan) lux models are sold as their own subbrand.

So, if the Genesis brand existed in Korea in 2008 as you (erroneously) claim, then why was there (1) no marketing for the Genesis brand and (2) why was the Equus not marketed as a Genesis?


Even for the commericals for the 2G Genesis sedan in 2013, the brand noted at the end of the commercial is Hyundai.

Contrast that w/ the brand noted at the end of commercials for the G70 and EQ090.

And speaking of the EQ900, why wasn't it's predecessor, the Equus marketed as a Genesis if the brand existed in 2008 in Korea?

As can see, once again, Hyundai is the brand noted at the end.

Once again, you're repeatedly wrong and even when pointed out, too stubborn to admit it.

And about whole being last thing - well, they pretty much were the last when it came to launching a compact RWD lux sedan, or for that matter, a midsize and full-size RWD lux sedan (Kia was actually the last to do the latter).

And when it comes to lux CUVs, Kia will be behind Genesis and from what it looks like, Lotus as well.

And when it comes to RWD lux CUVs - Cadillac, Lincoln and Lexus will all do so after Genesis.

 

[Mark_888]

So, if the Genesis brand existed in Korea in 2008 as you (erroneously) claim, then why was there (1) no marketing for the Genesis brand and (2) why was the Equus not marketed as a Genesis? Even for the commericals for the 2G Genesis sedan in 2013, the brand noted at the end of the commercial is Hyundai.

There was no marketing for the BH380 or BH460, etc in Korea? I don't think that is correct. The concept of brand is different in Korea than in the USA.

In looking at the video, at the end it shows the Genesis brand logo, and then in English it says something about Hyundai. Did they really show that English on Korean TV when showing that ad?

But it not unusual or surprising to mention that the Genesis or Equus were made by Hyundai Motor, since the Hyundai owns the Genesis brand. They were (and still are) made in Hyundai factories in Korea. Even in the USA now, both the Genesis brand, and Genesis Motors America organization are both part of Hyundai Motor America and report to the HMA CEO.

The bottom line was that on the Genesis BH going back to 2008, there was no identifying Hyundai logo anywhere on the vehicle.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The current Genesis RWD platform is heavy, so using it to underpin CUVs would have caused a weight problem even greater than what Genesis has already experienced for its sedans.

It seems to me that this is the reason we're all looking for. Genesis Motors didn't want to use FWD platforms for its high-end vehicles. And it didn't want to use the heavy G80 platform either. Are they late to the party? Yes. But now we have a reason. The G80 is also heavy compared to other vehicles in it's class, as far as I've heard. So it makes sense to me that they're doing their best to release properly competitive products - even if they're going to be late to the game as a result.

 

[Mcc]

It seems to me that this is the reason we're all looking for. Genesis Motors didn't want to use FWD platforms for its high-end vehicles. And it didn't want to use the heavy G80 platform either. Are they late to the party? Yes. But now we have a reason. The G80 is also heavy compared to other vehicles in it's class, as far as I've heard. So it makes sense to me that they're doing their best to release properly competitive products - even if they're going to be late to the game as a result.

Way too reasonably in my opinion. Count to 5 and wait for the post as to why you are wrong.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Way too reasonably in my opinion. Count to 5 and wait for the post as to why you are wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, the second generation Genesis Sedan was criticized for being too heavy. Reviewers said it was a great car - but the one area they didn't compete well was weight. Fuel efficiency was effected as a result. The last thing Genesis Motors wants is everyone hearing their most important products, CUVs, are heavy gas guzzlers...

If there was any real mistake made here - I believe it was for using more steel than necessary for their latest platform. Hyundai IS a steel company - but they need to put that nonsense aside and get with the program if they want to truly compete in the luxury automobile industry...

 

[Mark_888]

If I'm not mistaken, the second generation Genesis Sedan was criticized for being too heavy. Reviewers said it was a great car - but the one area they didn't compete well was weight. Fuel efficiency was effected as a result. The last thing Genesis Motors wants is everyone hearing their most important products, CUVs, are heavy gas guzzlers...

If there was any real mistake made here - I believe it was for using more steel than necessary for their latest platform. Hyundai IS a steel company - but they need to put that nonsense aside and get with the program if they want to truly compete in the luxury automobile industry...

They could have used more aluminum, but that would adversely affect the cost, and ultimately the MSRP. Despite what they would like to happen, Genesis is still attracting bargain hunters, and if the price creeps up to the same as other luxury brands, they are going to have a rude awakening.

 

[Mark_888]

Way too reasonably in my opinion. Count to 5 and wait for the post as to why you are wrong.

It doesn't matter to me what the excuse is, last place is last place.

I also don't care if your dog ate your homework, you will receive an F on your homework if not turned in on time.

Most things usually don't happen radomally in this world. There is always an "explanation" for almost everything. But explanation is not the same as justification for being last.

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[EdP]

Most things usually don't happen randomly in this world. There is always an "explanation" for almost everything. But explanation is not the same as justification for being last.

Much as it bugs you, there is an explanation. We also don't know the end result yet. If last is spectacularly better, it may pay off in the end. You can speculate, but we won't know for a long time what the end result will be. I will agree that last but mediocre is not good, but last but superior can pay off in the long run. We'll see.

 

[Mcc]

It doesn't matter to me what the excuse is, last place is last place.

I also don't care if your dog ate your homework, you will receive an F on your homework if not turned in on time.

Most things usually don't happen radomally in this world. There is always an "explanation" for almost everything. But explanation is not the same as justification for being last.

Glad you brought up the last place thing again. I was going to drop it until you repeated it. So you realize that the RR SUV you have been touting is only just been unveiled. No deliveries until sometime 2019 or so they claim. We will see but the last place game is not over just yet. Just as ridiculous as bringing up the RR would be to ask about Ferrari. Where is their SUV? Also not due until 2019 or so they say (or maybe hope). What took them so long. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari and RR for sure.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

They could have used more aluminum, but that would adversely affect the cost, and ultimately the MSRP. Despite what they would like to happen, Genesis is still attracting bargain hunters, and if the price creeps up to the same as other luxury brands, they are going to have a rude awakening.

Lexus still attracts bargain hunters. Nobody truly prefers the LS over the S-Class. But it's a great alternative for the money.

 

[joneillnj]

Glad you brought up the last place thing again. I was going to drop it until you repeated it. So you realize that the RR SUV you have been touting is only just been unveiled. No deliveries until sometime 2019 or so they claim. We will see but the last place game is not over just yet. Just as ridiculous as bringing up the RR would be to ask about Ferrari. Where is their SUV? Also not due until 2019 or so they say (or maybe hope). What took them so long. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari and RR for sure.

And where are the Bugatti and McLaren SUV’s? What losers they are - oh, the horror!

 

[Mark_888]

Glad you brought up the last place thing again. I was going to drop it until you repeated it. So you realize that the RR SUV you have been touting is only just been unveiled. No deliveries until sometime 2019 or so they claim. We will see but the last place game is not over just yet. Just as ridiculous as bringing up the RR would be to ask about Ferrari. Where is their SUV? Also not due until 2019 or so they say (or maybe hope). What took them so long. Heads are going to roll at Ferrari and RR for sure.

That is not correct. The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018. There are real live models that have been reviewed on YouTube (although they don't let the reviewers drive them on the open road, considering the cost of the vehicle).
Does the 2019 Rolls-Royce Cullinan stack up to its ultra-luxe competition?.

If you think that Ferrari is going to suffer from not having an SUV until 2019, that is your opinion. But even if they don't have one until late 2019 (the date predicted by most), that will likely still beat Genesis.

 

[joneillnj]

That is not correct. The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018.

Says who? RR has not confirmed customer delivery dates - the only info is speculation on the web that first deliveries should be at the very end of this year or early in 2019.

 

[Mark_888]

And where are the Bugatti and McLaren SUV’s? What losers they are - oh, the horror!

This video discusses both Buggatti and McLaren, but neither of them even makes sedans, so not sure if they will make SUVs.

If you think that just because Genesis has an SUV before Bugatti and McLaren (which we don't even know for sure) that it will solve all of Genesis' problems, you are smoking something.

This idea that Genesis Motors is a super luxury brand, and Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are beneath them, is sheer folly. Maybe the Genesis vehicles themselves are quite good, but they are having to sell them at highly discounted prices (as can be seen on the discussion of G90 leasing).

MB, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all have a full stable of SUV vehicles, and have had them for years.

 

[Mark_888]

Says who? RR has not confirmed customer delivery dates - the only info is speculation on the web that first deliveries should be at the very end of this year or early in 2019.

They have confirmed it is a 2019 model, and they will take orders in 2018 as a 2019 model. They cant confirm customer delivery dates because they are custom made, and it depends on how many orders they get. The only sell about 4000 vehicles per year.

Comparing the RR ordering and manufacturing process to a mass produced car like Genesis is ludicrous.

 

[EdP]

Comparing the RR ordering and manufacturing process to a mass produced car like Genesis is ludicrous.

True, but you bring it up that they are beating Genesis. No comparison.

 

[Mcc]

That is not correct. The RR Cullinan SUV is being released as a 2019 model, which means it will be available in 2018.

I only know what I read since I don’t work for RR. I am guessing you don’t either.

From AP May 11, 2018
“The Cullinan’s 6.75 liter, twin-turbo V12 engine has 563 horsepower. The SUV includes Rolls’ “magic air ride,” but drivers can press an “off road” button to hit the trails.

Deliveries are expected to begin in 2019.”

That could be over a year and a half from now! I do see some places where they call it the 2018 RR but that would meant it should have been released last year. Heads are going to roll at RR if it isn’t sooner.