Canadian stranded in Florida with transmission issue

[jimmy buoy]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm looking for some advice on possible options...

Drove down to our Ft Myers condo from Canada and arrived on Nov 5th. It was a uneventful 2 day drive, just me, the wife and our cat. Later the first day, I noticed the car surging upon acceleration - kind of a lumpy feel. My wife asked if the road was slippery thinking the tires were losing traction, but no such issue. Acceleration was a bit jerky, almost like a misfire and only noticeable while accelerating. We continued on our way and I was thinking it might have been some bad gas running through the car.

After arriving at the condo and continuing to feel the jerking whenever accelerating in city traffic, I decided to ask Hyundai Canada if a USA dealer would provide warranty service if I chose to take it in to be checked. They responded, YES.

I took it to the local dealer who responded very quickly and had their shop's senior tech go for a ride with me taking his tablet along to diagnose any issues (no trouble light had ever shown). At first he thought it was an engine mis-fire, ruled out. Then possibly a driveshaft issue, ruled out. Then checked for transmission issues, nothing wildly out of the ordinary, but there were some unusual readings. Upon returning to the shop, he had two other techs join him for their opinion. When he came back he said they all agree - the transmission is the problem and needs to be replaced.

Ok, what now? Well, since it was a Canadian car they had to call Hyundai Canada (being a separate company) and get the in-service date and confirmation that the car is under power train warranty. They confirmed this and told me that Canada was great to deal with and told them "whatever it needs - do it". Great. They arranged a rental initially for 2 weeks in house stating that they didn't want the car leaving me stranded somewhere with a complete failure, found the only transmission available in North America in Ontario California and said it would take a week or so to get is shipped here and another 2 days to install.

Sounds good, since I'm here till the 27th when I MUST return home for various commitments. Lots of time to spare... Right??

Well, yesterday I got an email from my service rep at the dealership who said,

"Hi Jim, this is nick from XXX hyundai. the transmission that we are waiting for has not come in as of yet. i am told the part is now in a back order status and time of delivery is unavailable. when you are able, please call me"

Instead of calling, I make a short drive to the dealer and am told that there is some issue with getting the transmission from California needs to be cleared through Canada first and am directed to the Parts Manager for further clarification. The parts manager says because it's a Canadian car Hyundai Canada must approve the part and complete the order to send it to their dealership for installation. It's in the process of being approved. For a week. Without an answer.

I have emailed Hyundai Canada regarding this to see if there is any way to expedite this, but my question in the meantime is...

How do I get back to Canada? I plan on returning to Florida for part of the winter, but not till the end of Jan for 2-3 months.

1. Just give them back the rental vehicle and ask for my car keys to take my Genesis home and hope it doesn't crap out?
2. Take the rental vehicle back to the closest point on the border to my home (only a couple of miles from the border), park it and get a ride home?
3. Fly home and risk using up all 9 of our cat's lives?

I'm considering option 1, but if the transmission totally lets go on the way home will Hyundai still pay for the tow and rental car considering I removed it from the dealer here that suggested I don't drive it?

Option 2 could work, however at some time in the future I'm sure the new transmission will be in and they'll want the rental back. I'll have to drive it back to Florida which is a real pita. Also, would the rental people be ok with me putting an extra 4500 miles on their car (don't think there are any mileage restrictions).

Option 3 is not too palatable due to our pet.

Your thoughts/suggestions are welcome.

(By the way, the parts guy is definitely NOT a salesman. He says "Wow, that's a long way to drive... all the way from Canada. You should just get a cheap little car and leave it here to use and just fly down. Canadian cars quite often have a problem with the Florida heat anyway." Really? I didn't get that vibe from any of the Genesis commercials on TV. Oh, nice car, but don't try to drive it 2200 miles plus the resulting changes in temps will kill it - these cars just can't take it... I told him that part of the reason my last three cars were Genesis sedans was that they are so comfortable and competent for long highway journeys. Ridiculous.)

 

[Mcc]

Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm looking for some advice on possible options...

Deleted. I wish there was a way to make the forum bolder or clearer when you read a post. As soon as you scroll it’s lost.

 

[Spanky61]

Option 4?
Leave the rental and consider taking Amtrak home. It would be more palatable for your feline. Then fly back and pickup the car when it's completed. There are trains from Florida to Montreal, CA. or other points North. It would be a scenic trip and no worries about getting there either.

Or Bus trip north. Greyhound to Montreal is about $117 per person. There are also other carriers available. Best I can think of at the moment. Ok Fort Meyers to Sarnia, CA above Detroit. Should be a straight forward trip, as Detroit is one of the Central hubs for Amtrak.

If I was in Florida, I would meet you and take your family home. I'm in NM sorry.

I don't believe you'd want to take the car after it's been diagnosed as have a transmission problem. This would jeopardize your warranty.

 

[Spanky61]

While I was speaking to my wife about it, a though came to mind; Have them check the fuel system for water. The symptoms also mirror the hesitation and jerking under acceleration when you get with water in the fuel. It's possible you stopped at a station that had water in it's tanks. When they fill up the tanks if there is water present, it will force it up in the tank. If it is, they need to drain the tank and fuel system then run dry gas thru it along with some high test fuel.

It wouldn't throw a malfunction code in the SAE Analyzer unit either. Generally, if there is a problem with the transmission the TCU will throw malfunction codes in the ECU. As it hasn't, it makes me think it's more towards water in the fuel. Have them check for water in the fuel system and possibly fouled spark plugs. Spark plugs aren't changed until around 100K and they won't throw a malfunction code in the ECU either. Both of these or a combination of both, can cause the problems you're having during acceleration.

When the engine jerked and missed, did you happen to look at the tachometer? Generally, when the transmissions is slipping under acceleration, there will be a surge in rpms quite quickly. It will over rev and you can see it in the tach. Once the trans locks up again, the rpms will drop significantly due to engine load. I might be wrong but this sounds like something else as I suggested above.

 

[EdP]

How do I get back to Canada? I plan on returning to Florida for part of the winter, but not till the end of Jan for 2-3 months.

1. Just give them back the rental vehicle and ask for my car keys to take my Genesis home and hope it doesn't crap out?
2. Take the rental vehicle back to the closest point on the border to my home (only a couple of miles from the border), park it and get a ride home?
3. Fly home and risk using up all 9 of our cat's lives?

I'm considering option 1, but if the transmission totally lets go on the way home will Hyundai still pay for the tow and rental car considering I removed it from the dealer here that suggested I don't drive it?
Genesis sedans was that they are so comfortable and competent for long highway journeys. Ridiculous.)

For me, #1 is not an option. The potential to get stuck in a really bad spot is too great.
I'm assuming #2 is because you can not take the rental across the border. If you can get close and drop the car off, can you reverse it for the trip back? Or if the rental can be a one way deal, in a couple of weeks fly down yourself to pick up the car and drive home sans cat? Fly down with a buddy for a guys weekend?

While it is nice to know Genesis is taking care of the warranty, it is not nice to know they have a bureaucracy that can take forever to get it done.

 

[jimmy buoy]

Option 4?
Leave the rental and consider taking Amtrak home. It would be more palatable for your feline. Then fly back and pickup the car when it's completed. There are trains from Florida to Montreal, CA. or other points North. It would be a scenic trip and no worries about getting there either.

Or Bus trip north. Greyhound to Montreal is about $117 per person. There are also other carriers available. Best I can think of at the moment. Ok Fort Meyers to Sarnia, CA above Detroit. Should be a straight forward trip, as Detroit is one of the Central hubs for Amtrak.

If I was in Florida, I would meet you and take your family home. I'm in NM sorry.

I don't believe you'd want to take the car after it's been diagnosed as have a transmission problem. This would jeopardize your warranty.

Thanks for the response. Took a quick look at train travel to Detroit, but not looking like a great option - too many lengthy stop overs to work. Bus would be even slower. Thanks for the thought of taking us home, but I wouldn't want to (nor should I have to) put that on anyone. I'll be checking in with Hyundai Canada to see if I'd have a warranty issue if I decided to try and drive the car home. Not sure why since they'd only be on for a tow, but they'd be saving the daily rental car in the meantime...

 

[jimmy buoy]

While I was speaking to my wife about it, a though came to mind; Have them check the fuel system for water. The symptoms also mirror the hesitation and jerking under acceleration when you get with water in the fuel. It's possible you stopped at a station that had water in it's tanks. When they fill up the tanks if there is water present, it will force it up in the tank. If it is, they need to drain the tank and fuel system then run dry gas thru it along with some high test fuel.

It wouldn't throw a malfunction code in the SAE Analyzer unit either. Generally, if there is a problem with the transmission the TCU will throw malfunction codes in the ECU. As it hasn't, it makes me think it's more towards water in the fuel. Have them check for water in the fuel system and possibly fouled spark plugs. Spark plugs aren't changed until around 100K and they won't throw a malfunction code in the ECU either. Both of these or a combination of both, can cause the problems you're having during acceleration.

When the engine jerked and missed, did you happen to look at the tachometer? Generally, when the transmissions is slipping under acceleration, there will be a surge in rpms quite quickly. It will over rev and you can see it in the tach. Once the trans locks up again, the rpms will drop significantly due to engine load. I might be wrong but this sounds like something else as I suggested above.

That's a thought - thanks. Although, I've run at least 4 tanks of fuel from different stations along the trip south through the car. Most of the time the fuel light had just come on when I stopped for fuel so most of the tank's fuel was used each time. The car only has 54000Km's or 34000 Miles so I can't see spark plugs being bad. On top of that, when the tech and I did the test drive with his tablet connected to the car he specifically looked for misfires and there were none. Would not water in the fuel cause misfires and show on his diagnostic tablet?

When the car jerked was while accelerating only. At a constant speed things were normal. The harder I accelerated, the more extreme the jerking became. I even tried it in Manual Shift Mode to keep it in one gear while accelerating and decelerating multiple times in the same gear to try and rule out surges during shifts. Each time I tried to speed up it would jerk (or surge) every time. It was most evident in 3rd gear or higher while applying some low end torque to the drive train. The tach did not show any fluctuations during acceleration, just a smooth transition of increasing rpm's. If you've ever towed a heavy trailer, it is a similar sensation as when the trailer hits rough patches or bumps in the road which kind of pulls on the tow vehicle causing jerking or surging. Based on this, do you still think water in the fuel system is a possibility?

 

[jimmy buoy]

For me, #1 is not an option. The potential to get stuck in a really bad spot is too great.
I'm assuming #2 is because you can not take the rental across the border. If you can get close and drop the car off, can you reverse it for the trip back? Or if the rental can be a one way deal, in a couple of weeks fly down yourself to pick up the car and drive home sans cat? Fly down with a buddy for a guys weekend?

While it is nice to know Genesis is taking care of the warranty, it is not nice to know they have a bureaucracy that can take forever to get it done.

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the response. I hear what you're saying about being stuck in an awkward spot. It is a bit of a concern, but with the car going this far (at least 2200 miles) without totally failing or becoming massively worse I'm thinking about taking the gamble. On the other hand, it appears that the Florida dealer has much more experienced in R/R transmissions in Genesis than our little local Hyundai dealer at home so it might be better to leave it here for the warranty work (if it ever gets approved).

Correct with Option 2. I live on the border with Port Huron Michigan, so the last leg of travel without a rental isn't an issue. I can always get a buddy to pick me up in Port Huron, but what to do with the rental. I'll have to check with Enterprise and see if it could just be dropped off in Michigan for a fee and if my warranty will cover it. I do have a second car I can drive once back home, but perhaps Hyundai will allow me to get a Canadian rental car until mine is done in Florida. As far as that goes, once I hear that the car is fixed I could return the Canadian rental, postpone picking my repaired car up till my originally planned return date of later January when I would once again use a two day one-way rental car to get from Michigan to Florida...

I hope to be able to speak with Hyundai Canada's Warranty people this week and get some answers. I'm sure this is not the first time one of their cars has experienced this issue. At least having a home here in Florida gives me some additional options!

 

[TurtleBoy]

I live on the border with Port Huron Michigan, so the last leg of travel without a rental isn't an issue. I can always get a buddy to pick me up in Port Huron, but what to do with the rental. I'll have to check with Enterprise and see if it could just be dropped off in Michigan for a fee and if my warranty will cover it. I do have a second car I can drive once back home, but perhaps Hyundai will allow me to get a Canadian rental car until mine is done in Florida. As far as that goes, once I hear that the car is fixed I could return the Canadian rental, postpone picking my repaired car up till my originally planned return date of later January when I would once again use a two day one-way rental car to get from Michigan to Florida...
!

There shouldn't be any problem with Enterprise just taking and using that car in Canada. Just check in with them first and make sure Genesis will continue paying.

Driving a Rental Car Cross-Border

There are no are restrictions for driving the vehicle to either the U.S. or Canada. For example, picking up the vehicle in the U.S. and driving to Canada or Canada to the U.S.). Please be sure to review our U.S. and Canada Border-Crossing Policy for full details.

https://www.enterprise.com/en/help/faqs/unlimited-mileage.html

 

[jimmy buoy]

There shouldn't be any problem with Enterprise just taking and using that car in Canada. Just check in with them first and make sure Genesis will continue paying.

Driving a Rental Car Cross-Border

There are no are restrictions for driving the vehicle to either the U.S. or Canada. For example, picking up the vehicle in the U.S. and driving to Canada or Canada to the U.S.). Please be sure to review our U.S. and Canada Border-Crossing Policy for full details.

https://www.enterprise.com/en/help/faqs/unlimited-mileage.html

Thanks for that info. I don't know why I thought you couldn't cross the border with a rental, but I'll double check with the Enterprise person that arranged my rental regarding unlimited mileage and crossing into Canada. Sounds like all their "normal type car" rentals include both. My rental agreement states nothing about mileage, but was only approving rental for up to two weeks. The two weeks are up this Friday. I'm assuming it will be renewed until my Genesis is repaired but never want to bank on an assumption - I'll ask!

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[PMCErnie]

I’m still struggling with the enormity of being stranded in Florida at a second home. The Hyundai/Genesis warranty does not protect us from any and every eventuality. There are lots of trains, planes and buses and automobiles available for “ rescue” services. Hopefully, Hyundai Canada will be of assistance and expedite the repairs.

 

[jimmy buoy]

I’m still struggling with the enormity of being stranded in Florida at a second home. The Hyundai/Genesis warranty does not protect us from any and every eventuality. There are lots of trains, planes and buses and automobiles available for “ rescue” services. Hopefully, Hyundai Canada will be of assistance and expedite the repairs.

Thanks Ernie,

There's worse places to be stranded! Spent the afternoon out on the water and playing with dolphins off of Sanibel Island - can't do that back at home! I'm not going to stress about it and it looks like Hyundai recognizes that if my Genesis is not ok to drive, they will provide replacement transportation. So, I'll just put a bunch of miles on somebody else's vehicle while mine is being put back into service. I'm not above driving an lowly rental car. The Elantra provided will do just fine.

 

[Spanky61]

That's a thought - thanks. Although, I've run at least 4 tanks of fuel from different stations along the trip south through the car. Most of the time the fuel light had just come on when I stopped for fuel so most of the tank's fuel was used each time. The car only has 54000Km's or 34000 Miles so I can't see spark plugs being bad. On top of that, when the tech and I did the test drive with his tablet connected to the car he specifically looked for misfires and there were none. Would not water in the fuel cause misfires and show on his diagnostic tablet?

When the car jerked was while accelerating only. At a constant speed things were normal. The harder I accelerated, the more extreme the jerking became. I even tried it in Manual Shift Mode to keep it in one gear while accelerating and decelerating multiple times in the same gear to try and rule out surges during shifts. Each time I tried to speed up it would jerk (or surge) every time. It was most evident in 3rd gear or higher while applying some low end torque to the drive train. The tach did not show any fluctuations during acceleration, just a smooth transition of increasing rpm's. If you've ever towed a heavy trailer, it is a similar sensation as when the trailer hits rough patches or bumps in the road which kind of pulls on the tow vehicle causing jerking or surging. Based on this, do you still think water in the fuel system is a possibility?

Yes, I do believe it might be water in the fuel. It can be check fairly easily, as water and fuel don't mix. They'll have to drop the tank and purge the FI system but I thought they might have at least thought about this first in their diagnostic. Water in the fuel system wouldn't be detected by the ECU.

Misfires would to some extent on an SAE Analyzer. Did he use a SAE Analyzer? They don't look like a laptop. Let's just say, eliminating this first is the easiest to detect. It will not hurt to ask and have them check, before they pull the transmission.

It might also be an DFI problem; high pressure pump failure, injectors clogged etc. This is a more common problem with the DFI 3.8. However, I'm speculating as to the actual problem. I'm not the technician. I just find it very difficult to believe a transmission needs to be replaced with 34K miles. Genesis has a fairly stout transmission. If there was a problem with the transmission, the TCU generally throws malfunction codes in the ECU.

Additionally, spark plugs in the Genesis are notorious for misfires. The insulator breaks down too quickly from excessive heat which causes misfires This can be compounded with water in the fuel to foul plugs More recently, the 3.3T engine has this problem. It might be a coil going bad. Each Spark plug has a coil.

As far as taking you home; It wouldn't make any difference to me I'm retired. I'd insist and just do it anyway. I'm just to far away being in NM "sigh".

 

[jimmy buoy]

Yes, I do believe it might be water in the fuel. It can be check fairly easily, as water and fuel don't mix. They'll have to drop the tank and purge the FI system but I thought they might have at least thought about this first in their diagnostic. Water in the fuel system wouldn't be detected by the ECU.

Misfires would to some extent on an SAE Analyzer. Did he use a SAE Analyzer? They don't look like a laptop. Let's just say, eliminating this first is the easiest to detect. It will not hurt to ask and have them check, before they pull the transmission.

It might also be an DFI problem; high pressure pump failure, injectors clogged etc. This is a more common problem with the DFI 3.8. However, I'm speculating as to the actual problem. I'm not the technician. I just find it very difficult to believe a transmission needs to be replaced with 34K miles. Genesis has a fairly stout transmission. If there was a problem with the transmission, the TCU generally throws malfunction codes in the ECU.

Additionally, spark plugs in the Genesis are notorious for misfires. The insulator breaks down too quickly from excessive heat which causes misfires This can be compounded with water in the fuel to foul plugs More recently, the 3.3T engine has this problem. It might be a coil going bad. Each Spark plug has a coil.

As far as taking you home; It wouldn't make any difference to me I'm retired. I'd insist and just do it anyway. I'm just to far away being in NM "sigh".

Thanks for the additional info. I'm heading to the dealership tomorrow and will be sure to discuss your theory with the tech! Sure would be nice for it to be something as simple as water in the fuel or pump failure/injector etc. I don't think there were any codes thrown on the tech's tablet during the test drive, and it definitely was acting up during the test. There was no check engine light on the dash for sure. As far as diagnostic, all I know is he connected his Hyundai tablet wirelessly to the car somehow and I held it on my lap while he drove the car and listened for alerts of issues. On one screen were listed all 8 cylinders and the count for misfires which were all zero throughout the test. Next, the screen was changed for the transmission which listed a bunch of solenoid valves and mapped out a graph for each as the car went through the gears along with various pressures and in/out fluid flow. All of this was recorded on the tablet for him to use after the drive.

One thing I really have a hard time believing is that their senior tech, a mid 50's prior aircraft mechanic for a major carrier until 1987 when he began to work for Hyundai along with two other techs he chose to provide a 2nd and 3rd opinion ALL determined - TRANSMISSION, something so major, so expensive to replace without exhausting other less costly issues. These guys seem to be top notch mechanics that are very familiar with Genesis. Then again... anyone can miss the obvious, but all three?

 

[jimmy buoy]

Update guys,

I spent the majority of yesterday dealing with Hyundai Canada on the phone and then at the Florida dealer. A bit frustrating.

First, the call to Hyundai Canada's Warranty line proved fruitless. "Christian" was most apologetic about my issues with the car but didn't seem to know anything other than the in-service date of my vehicle and that it was in fact still warrantied. It was unclear if he could not see any active warranty issues or just didn't know how to access that information. I asked to speak with a warranty rep, but he said they have no phone numbers for me to call and that they can only email reps. According to Christian, warranty reps only speak on a phone to dealer service reps. I repeatedly asked to speak with his supervisor but was told that he was unavailable but would have him call me asap - right. That never happened.

I called back in a bit and got another call centre worker Michael who seemed more able to converse without constant uh, um, ahhh, duh, and he was able to email me a copy of the warranty wording. I asked if I were to remove my car from the dealer and attempt to drive it back to Canada, would the warranty still engage if it leaves me stranded on the side of the road. Yes, towing would be provided and warranty service at a dealer including rental car if the dealer deems it appropriate. He also confirmed that the Florida dealer would contact their Hyundai USA Warranty rep who would then call Hyundai Canada's rep to discuss the case. Hyundai USA Warranty rep would make the call as to part replacement and bill Canada for the work and rental.

There's the frustration. The Florida dealer insists that Canada's warranty rep has to call the shots and get the tranny ordered. Michael from Canada says no - USA is in control since the vehicle is in the USA. Michael says he can see no warranty activity on my file. Florida dealer says that's because the warranty work has not been completed.

After flip flopping on what to do since Friday, I've decided to take option 1 and attempt the drive home. The dealer really didn't seem too interested in exploring any other possible causes for the lumpy acceleration since they had already determined it was needing a transmission replacement. I returned the rental and took back my Genesis. We will drive it locally and see if there are worsening issues and make a final decision Monday night whether or not to hit the road for home Tuesday. I'll also be putting some fuel cleaner and stabilizer/dryer through the tank and check for any air intake leaks or vacuum leaks, battery cable connections etc too.

Thanks everyone for your notes of concern and offers of help. I'll keep you posted.

 

[TurtleBoy]

Good luck, hope you make it without any major issues.

 

[Spanky61]

Please so let us know what transpires. Whatever happens, I hope the best for your family. The Lords Blessings and safe journey. For your own peace of mind, run some dry gas and Chevron Techron thru the tank. It's cheap insurance.

 

[jimmy buoy]

Please so let us know what transpires. Whatever happens, I hope the best for your family. The Lords Blessings and safe journey. For you own peace of mind, run some dry gas and Chevron Techron thru the tank. It's cheap insurance.

Putting tank additives in tomorrow and will keep updating the post for sure. Nice to know there are members here rooting for us!

Jim

 

[jimmy buoy]

UPDATE - I've been driving the car for the last 5 days on various roads and it's exhibiting the same symptoms. No better, no worse. Actually felt pretty good about my decision to drive the car back to Canada... until I actually took time to read the dealer's receipt for the work done on the car.

It states the following... "Found transmission fluid full but dark and burnt. Performed recalibration procedure, found very bad vibration in 3,4, and 5th gears, found transmission to have internal failures".

The burnt transmission fluid is a new revelation to me. At no time did the tech mention that little tidbit. The car had no codes indicating failure but the tech said there were "unusual readings" on his diagnostic tablet, and that combined with the test drive came to the conclusion that the tranny needed to be replaced. No mention of burnt fluid. Maybe he thought he didn't have to mention it and saying it needed a new tranny was enough??

If the fluid is dark, that's one thing. If it smells burnt, that's a huge sign of problems with the transmission. Am I wrong in thinking that burnt fluid is a game changer here?

I'm going back to the dealer tomorrow to hopefully speak with the tech and ask what his assessment of the fluid was - burnt or not? If he confirms burnt I think it would be foolish for me to try and make it back to Canada with the car.

Thoughts??

 

[EdP]

If the fluid is dark, that's one thing. If it smells burnt, that's a huge sign of problems with the transmission. Am I wrong in thinking that burnt fluid is a game changer here?

I'm going back to the dealer tomorrow to hopefully speak with the tech and ask what his assessment of the fluid was - burnt or not? If he confirms burnt I think it would be foolish for me to try and make it back to Canada with the car.

Thoughts??

The fact that it is burnt and he did not mention it is not a big deal. What we don't know is how long it took. Was it over 20,000 miles or 2,000 miles? No way to tell, so no way to give a good assessment.

There may be a problem in 3, 4, and 5 but work OK in the other gears meaning you can drive forever in 8, but, the burnt fluid will ruin that too over time. Still a crap shoot.

I'd take the rental. Its getting cold sitting on the roadside.