Anyone concern with the Genesis Low Sales Figures

[ctrcbob]

Genesis sales figures Sept.09- 1,665. Acura TL was 2034.

My concerns are that Genesis numbers are the sedan + the coupe, while the TL numbers reflex the sedans only. The Genesis Coupe can be had for under $25K, while the TL is around $32k on the low side.


These are low numbers for both cars but Hyundai has at least twice the dealers as Acura for there cars at present.

On my recent trip to Western NY, I did see more Genesis' than many other cars. I saw two on the road, plus a few while I was in Rochester (Penfield).
That is more than the Ford Flex (1), Ford Taurus-X (0), Pontiac G8 (1), Lincoln MKS (2), MKZ [new style] (1), etc etc etc.

I don't want a car that you see everywhere. I like to have one (Genesis) that is rare, and to have people ask me "what is it", as happened today while parked downtown.

 

[SterlingDave]

Sorry Scott, but the truth is that Genesis sales slowed in September because the 2010's are coming out and many people want to wait. I never said that everyone can handle the truth, I just said what the truth is, in direct response to the OP of this thread.

It is certainly good to know who thinks himself as the purveyor of the truth. How about if we want to know the "truth" we'll ask for it? And by the way, truth is not spelled suspension!


Another quote from you (Mark) on this same thread: "I am quite sure that the news of the improved 2010 suspension is a big part of the slow Sept sales. Hyundai originally included the suspension changes in a web page announcing the 2010 sedan, but removed mention of suspension changes a few days later (probably after dealers complained to HMA)."

Mark, your opinion of what is a big part of slow Sept. sales is worth little to nothing. You have no basis in facts that could possibly lead a reasonably logical person to that conclusion.

It is my opinion that you REALLY need to get a life and stop beating this issue any further into the ground. Your obsession with this issue certainly must be unhealthy. And that IS the truth.

 

[Mark_888]

What do you mean "flying off the lots"? Here in Central Florida, there are no 2010 Sedans to be had. (My dealer has about six 2009's on the lot). A week ago, My Florida Dealer said that there were only 4 2010's in the whole state of Florida. When I was in Western NY last week, I checked with the largest dealer "network" there, and not only did they not have 2010's, they never got a 2009 V8 until late summer.

If they are not on the lots now, they are flying (or have flown) off the lots.

Based on my inquires, the 2010 models are selling briskly, although I admit not many have delivered to dealers yet. But those that have, go pretty quickly at premium prices compared to 2009 prices from what I have been told by dealers.

 

[Mark_888]

It is certainly good to know who thinks himself as the purveyor of the truth. How about if we want to know the "truth" we'll ask for it? And by the way, truth is not spelled suspension!


Another quote from you (Mark) on this same thread: "I am quite sure that the news of the improved 2010 suspension is a big part of the slow Sept sales. Hyundai originally included the suspension changes in a web page announcing the 2010 sedan, but removed mention of suspension changes a few days later (probably after dealers complained to HMA)."

Mark, your opinion of what is a big part of slow Sept. sales is worth little to nothing. You have no basis in facts that could possibly lead a reasonably logical person to that conclusion.

It is my opinion that you REALLY need to get a life and stop beating this issue any further into the ground. Your obsession with this issue certainly must be unhealthy. And that IS the truth.

Yes, it is my "opinion" that 2009 sales slowed in September for the reasons I stated. I guess everyone has there own opinion about whether I am right or wrong, and also everyone has their own opinion about the Acura TL, and every other subject in this forum. If you have a different explanation for the slowing Genesis sales in Sept, I would value your opinion and I respect your right to express your opinion whether or not I agree.

As to what evidence I have, it is based on reading the posts on this forum from people who specifically have waited for the 2010 for the reasons I stated, and also based on my discussion with dealers. I don't claim that constitutes proof, but there is no proof offered for 99% of what is posted on this (or any other) forum.

 

[sandy]

I am quite sure that the news of the improved 2010 suspension is a big part of the slow Sept sales. Hyundai originally included the suspension changes in a web page announcing the 2010 sedan, but removed mention of suspension changes a few days later (probably after dealers complained to HMA).

There must be a lot of cars with suspension problems because sales of current years models fall, for just about every brand, when the new models arrive. That's why dealers have all those year-end deals on "leftovers".

 

[Mark_888]

There must be a lot of cars with suspension problems because sales of current years models fall, for just about every brand, when the new models arrive. That's why dealers have all those year-end deals on "leftovers".

Maybe you are right. But I thought sales for a particular month would include both 2009 and 2010 models. Anyway, people are getting too worked up about all this. I predict that 2010 sales of the Genesis will rise at least 30% from 2009 sales and that the future will be bright for the Genesis. Unfortunately, pretty soon the car will be popular enough that everyone will know we are driving a Hyundai instead of a Bentley.

Sometimes dealers actually run out of the outgoing year model. I was going to help someone negotiate a deal on Honda Civic several years ago. It was in September and we went to several dealers and they had no Civics for the outgoing year, and the new model year cars had not come in yet.

 

[Hghwy52]

Until last Spring, Hyundai bragged that Genesis sedan sales topped 1000 each month. If sales were holding up, there would be some mention somewhere of sedan vs coupe sales. Hyundai's initial sales projections were for about 50000 units per year - 20000 sedans (80% V6) and 30000 coupes. To sell at 50% or less of that target given the massive introductory advertising has got to be a disappointment.

According to Forbes, 70% of Honda buyers, 60% of Toyota buyers (71% for Lexus), 45% of Ford buyers and 35% of Chevy buyers have college degrees. Ford and Chevy have a higher mix of trucks which may be a partial explanation but 13% of Chevy owners do not use the internet compared to less than 3% of Honda owners. I wonder what the corresponding figures are for Hyundai.

The point is that the perception of the Genesis can only be so much higher than the Hyundai brand as a whole before cognitive dissonance sets in. I don't know what the answer is - a separate dealership seems off the table - but unless and until the Hyundai brand itself moves more upscale there is very much cause for concern for the lackluster Genesis sales figures.

 

[Mark_888]

Until last Spring, Hyundai bragged that Genesis sedan sales topped 1000 each month. If sales were holding up, there would be some mention somewhere of sedan vs coupe sales. Hyundai's initial sales projections were for about 50000 units per year - 20000 sedans (80% V6) and 30000 coupes. To sell at 50% or less of that target given the massive introductory advertising has got to be a disappointment.

According to Forbes, 70% of Honda buyers, 60% of Toyota buyers (71% for Lexus), 45% of Ford buyers and 35% of Chevy buyers have college degrees. Ford and Chevy have a higher mix of trucks which may be a partial explanation but 13% of Chevy owners do not use the internet compared to less than 3% of Honda owners. I wonder what the corresponding figures are for Hyundai.

The point is that the perception of the Genesis can only be so much higher than the Hyundai brand as a whole before cognitive dissonance sets in. I don't know what the answer is - a separate dealership seems off the table - but unless and until the Hyundai brand itself moves more upscale there is very much cause for concern for the lackluster Genesis sales figures.

Hyundai is going to live or die based on Sonata sales, not the Genesis Sedan. However, they may be a bit disappointed in the Hyundai Coupe sales figures.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Let's see:

In September, Acura sales were down 35% from last September. Avalon, closest Toyota competitor to the Gen was down 45% from last year.
Meanwhile, the Gen was up 60% over last September, Hyundai was up 27% overall, the Gen sold 300 fewer than Avalon, 350 or so fewer than the TL. This from a car 14 months on the market compared to the aforementioned established brands.

Yep, if I'm Hyundai I'm shaking in my boots.
What an idiotic (original) post.

 

[lysykon]

n, In my opinioGenesis sales should be compared to sales of cars like Toyota Avalon (~1900), Lexus ES 350 (~3000), Audi A4 (~1000), or Infiniti G35
(~2800). These are established brands, and they took a big hit. It seems that Genesis has a chance of establishing itself as an alternative; it definitely was viewed this way by us here.

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[Seattle Genesis]

I think I need a drink

 

[DeMAN]

On my recent trip to Western NY, I did see more Genesis' than many other cars. I saw two on the road, plus a few while I was in Rochester (Penfield).
That is more than the Ford Flex (1), Ford Taurus-X (0), Pontiac G8 (1), Lincoln MKS (2), MKZ [new style] (1), etc etc etc.

I don't want a car that you see everywhere. I like to have one (Genesis) that is rare, and to have people ask me "what is it", as happened today while parked downtown.

While I agree that you may not want the see a lot I would like to see more genesis on the roadthen what I do. I have yet to see a coupe on the road and I stay just east of Houston. I dont want to see hyundai pull the coupe due to poor sales nor the sedan. I do think the sedan though has a lot more staying power.

I recently road in a genesis sedan V8 that had larger wheels (20's) and it was a difference in night and day on the ride and handling. (I also drove the same car) .

I rode in the coupe and I thought it was noisy for $20-$30k car. (I never test drive a car with the radio on) It was a base V6. I hope the touring is better.

I asked over a month ago on the Coupe forum for someone to post pictures of coupe with a NAV and there comment of its operation. I have yet to see the picture except for the prototype.

 

[Asus999]

What do you mean "flying off the lots"? Here in Central Florida, there are no 2010 Sedans to be had. (My dealer has about six 2009's on the lot). A week ago, My Florida Dealer said that there were only 4 2010's in the whole state of Florida. When I was in Western NY last week, I checked with the largest dealer "network" there, and not only did they not have 2010's, they never got a 2009 V8 until late summer.

Agree.. I can still count the number of Genesis Sedans driving on the road beside me.. so I dont think they're "flying" off the lot.. otherwise where are they.. dont see them... Sales should natrually be slow in the last quarter of the calendar year, because it makes sense for a consumer to wait for the new year model to arrive to capitalized on as much bargain on the 2009 as they can, not because they specifically want the "new/revised" suspension..

 

[sandy]

Keep the sales low I say.....I like being the only person in my area with a Genesis.....

As for comparing sales with the TL.... Not exactly apples to apples...

The gs460 or M45 would be better


Infinity seems to group the m35 with the m45 and the GS isn't listed but these at least are rwd v8 sedans....

not sure anyone is cross shopping a v6 fwd lux car with a rwd v8 performance sedan...

I like being one of the few to drive a Genesis also....the exclusivity is definately part of the fun. Considering there are about 250,000,000 cars on the road in the US, and maybe around 25,000 Genesis's, should be rare to spot one for a while to come.

 

[scottdk]

Hyundai is going to live or die based on Sonata sales, not the Genesis Sedan. However, they may be a bit disappointed in the Hyundai Coupe sales figures.

I think this could be true Mark. Sadly, I have only seen one coupe on the road. This still shocks me.

 

[kaberle]

You seem always to be concerned about the new posters on here Mark and you say that you repeat yourself about suspension for their sake......... well for their sake lets repeat something else they may not know.............

The truth is............ someone in this forum ( I don't remember who) drove your car Mark....... and they reported that you were full of CRAP regarding the ride of your car........ they even reported that although they were happy with the ride of their Genesis... that they were even happier with the ride of YOUR Genesis....... THIS is the truth that I choose to believe.......

Tying this into the topic at hand......... whatever you may say about Genesis sales....... I find irrelevant........ there are many reasons for sales to slow........ for you to comment about sales slowing because of the suspension like its a matter of fact reminds me of the BULLIES I knew in grade school........

 

[kaberle]

The list is skewed by the fact the rankings include all-time sales since 1886 (no, that is not a typo), and not sales in a given year. However, most of these vehicles were outstanding in their price class during the years the racked up those sales (some of them many years ago), so yes it does prove they were very good vehicles for the money when they were sold.

Regarding the TL, let's wait until we see 2010 model year sales, not just sales for the most recent month. Aside from the hideous looks, the TL is actually an excellent car. Also, the TL is probably a little less money than the V8 Genesis.

BTW, we don't know what the Genesis sedan sales were world-wide in Sept, do we? Probably much better in Korea and other locations outside of North America.

The original poster was questioning why sales of Genesis were below that of TL implying that people may find TL to be a better car........

The reason for posting this list is to show that sales of cars have nothing to do with the quality of the car.....

You are a Pathetic Man Mark...... Do you work at Mercedes per chance?

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Kaberle:

I'd be the last person to defend Mark, but in fairness...

Your memory of the "vehicle swap" is exactly right except for one detail:
I drove Doug's car, not Mark's.

That said, I hope the mods take your total contributions into account before bouncing you because of one day of frustration. It's not my board but I understand.

 

[RogerB]

Wow! I am a very new poster here and I can't believe the rudeness! I was a moderator years ago on another very different board. I would not have allowed this kind of thing to continue. There are ways of disagreeing without being disagreeable.

I have no problems with the suspension on my 2009 Genesis. Yes, the ride is firmer than the Buick I traded in but I expected that. On the other hand, I have a better feel for the road in my present car.

Earlier this year I spotted two Genesis on the roads of Ottawa. Since I bought my own two weeks ago, I have not seen any. What I don't understand is not seeing any TV ads for the Genesis. I would have thought that advertising a car that has won around 30 awards this year would be easy. It practically sells itself! Unless and until people are aware that the Genesis exists, they are not going to buy it.

 

[zedbyers]

I think I need a drink

i agree

you know, i used to enjoy this board, quite a bit actually. not so much for a while now.

i guess that is the beauty of the internet. it takes some away from reality and places them into their own version of it. good thing i don't have to live/work with some of the of the folks here......