Entry Level Luxury - Which is best?

[Sayantsi]

I think the big thing to remember is perspective of the markets we are taking about. I don't know about everyone else, but I got a V6 with Premium Plus for $32k - that is Honda Accord, Subaru Legacy, Toyota Camry/Avalon territory, and based on price the Genesis simply blows away anything priced even close to it. I can't say I'm surprised people keep comparing the Genesis to luxury cars, especially since the V8 can get deeper into their competitive price ranges, but when I put things into the perspective that the Genesis offers stuff you find on cars costing $10-30k more, I really don't see any room to complain about the car.

 

[TJPark01]

I think the big thing to remember is perspective of the markets we are taking about.

Good points. That's the brilliance of the car. Much like what the LS400 did 20 years ago. It turns the collective establishment upside down and forces them to realize that doing the same thing over and over again, is not going to cut it. Ultimately, this is great for the consumer.

 

[MichaelOne]

I think the big thing to remember is perspective of the markets we are taking about. I don't know about everyone else, but I got a V6 with Premium Plus for $32k - that is Honda Accord, Subaru Legacy, Toyota Camry/Avalon territory, and based on price the Genesis simply blows away anything priced even close to it. I can't say I'm surprised people keep comparing the Genesis to luxury cars, especially since the V8 can get deeper into their competitive price ranges, but when I put things into the perspective that the Genesis offers stuff you find on cars costing $10-30k more, I really don't see any room to complain about the car.

Sounds like you got a helluva deal.

 

[GeneYus]

Good points. That's the brilliance of the car. Much like what the LS400 did 20 years ago. It turns the collective establishment upside down and forces them to realize that doing the same thing over and over again, is not going to cut it. Ultimately, this is great for the consumer.

Well said. I had one of the first LS 400 off the line in Sept.1989. What a car. And I experienced then what I am experiencing now with the name recognition thing. After the first two weeks with the Genesis, once again, I know I will be having the last laugh. It is a helluva vehicle.

 

[sandy]

Well said. I had one of the first LS 400 off the line in Sept.1989. What a car. And I experienced then what I am experiencing now with the name recognition thing. After the first two weeks with the Genesis, once again, I know I will be having the last laugh. It is a helluva vehicle.

I had a '90 LS also and what I best remember was the dealer experience; the service people were actually nice to me. Mind-blowing experience coming out of the '80's

 

[Hghwy52]

I also bought a '90 Lexus LS in Sept. '89. While I don't think the Genesis is as head and shoulders above the competition as was the LS, the Lexus at $38k cost more than the V6 Premium Plus 20 years later.

 

[Shane D]

What are your impressions of the reworked 2010 Infiniti G37 sedan? Has it pushed you either way?

Yes it has. Infiniti is only for a coupe. If I get a sedan, it would likely be the Hyundai as it is much nicer looking, in my opinion. It also has a nicer interior. My only concern would be lack of AWD.
Although that may not be the clincher that I thought it would be. I test drove a G37 convertible coupe yesterday. MMMmmmmmm.

Shane D

 

[GeneYus]

I also bought a '90 Lexus LS in Sept. '89. While I don't think the Genesis is as head and shoulders above the competition as was the LS, the Lexus at $38k cost more than the V6 Premium Plus 20 years later.

You may be right, but I feel also the intro of the Genesis could not have come at a better time. Luxury cars, to me, are now way out of whack in terms of pricing. Without this vehicle being available, I think my days of high end vehicles would have been over after 25 years. I'm eager to see what shockwaves will register in MB and BMW if the Equus delivers as Genesis has. The cars they charge 55-60 k for should be no more than 45k.

I have a similar rant in terms of California Cabernet. LOL.

 

[jjsC6]

I have followed this thread with interest. My current car is a 08 CTS, before that a 06 Infiniti M45, before that a 04 Acura TL - you get the picture.

As this is my daily driver, and we have two other cars, and I trade every two years I have been leasing my last few. As everyone knows, leasing has turned topsy-turvy the past year.

What I'm finding now is that BMW and amazingly enough, even Lexus right now are the most agressive on leasing. I don't have final numbers, but it would appear to me from my current homework and best guess that I can lease a Lexus GS350 for pretty close to the lease on a Genesis 4.6. Before you tell me that I'm comparing the wrong vehicles (V6 Genesis instead of V8), let me tell you that I drove a V8 Genesis and GS350 back to back, and the GS350 feels very nearly as fast as the V8 Genesis.

Given the lease deals, the GS is still a no brainer to me. It is a little better sorted out, and the service experience is going to be a whole lot better.

I welcome any input on the matter - especially anyone who might be looking into leasing as well.

 

[TJPark01]

Given the lease deals, the GS is still a no brainer to me. It is a little better sorted out, and the service experience is going to be a whole lot better.
I welcome any input on the matter - especially anyone who might be looking into leasing as well.

GS350 and V8 Genesis comparison was done on Edmunds. The GS was faster to 60. I think you can't go wrong with either car. But I think the V6 genesis is going to be considerably cheaper to lease than a GS350.
Comparison Test: 2009 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 vs. 2008 Lexus GS 350

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[jjsC6]

GS350 and V8 Genesis comparison was done on Edmunds. The GS was faster to 60. I think you can't go wrong with either car. But I think the V6 genesis is going to be considerably cheaper to lease than a GS350.
Comparison Test: 2009 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 vs. 2008 Lexus GS 350

I have not looked at leases on the V6 per se, but I did some homework on the V8. Residuals suck big time, and they don't even show a 2 year lease. Right now, the residual is 47% on the Genesis and 54% on a GS350 (both 36 months). Residual for 24 months on the Lexus is 61%. Those are big differences.

Just found my paperwork on the Genesis - the 36 month residual on a V6 model is 49%

 

[medhat]

What are your impressions of the reworked 2010 Infiniti G37 sedan? Has it pushed you either way?

While I like the current G37 looks, I'm not too partial to the 2011 M (prefer the current styling, the new one is just too "swoopy" for me). Overall I view the G37 and BMW 3 series as more "sport sedans" than "entry level luxury". In the latter case, although I have absolutely no regrets with my choice (LOVE IT), I did enjoy my prior 2 ES300's. They were luxurious at the time, and the current ES, IMO, is no exception. But it simply doesn't have the power of either the 3.8 or 4.6 Genesis'.

 

[TJPark01]

While I like the current G37 looks, I'm not too partial to the 2011 M (prefer the current styling, the new one is just too "swoopy" for me). Overall I view the G37 and BMW 3 series as more "sport sedans" than "entry level luxury". In the latter case, although I have absolutely no regrets with my choice (LOVE IT), I did enjoy my prior 2 ES300's. They were luxurious at the time, and the current ES, IMO, is no exception. But it simply doesn't have the power of either the 3.8 or 4.6 Genesis'.

All good points. The M is definitely trying to capture the E and 5 series crowd, while Hyundai is not targeting those buyers per say, the car has proven to be worthy of comparison, simply on merit. There will be Merc & Bimmer people that would not even consider the Genesis simply because of the brand DNA, but may consider an Infiniti

 

[jwaters943]

Speaking of the 2011 M....

The new M is probably fabulous to drive and the powertrains sound damn impressive, but the interior kills it for me. There are too many swoopy angles and intersecting lines. The materials *look* rich (at least in pics), but from a design standpoint I prefer something less busy. The steering wheel especially is an eyesore IMO.

 

[TJPark01]

Speaking of the 2011 M....
The new M is probably fabulous to drive and the powertrains sound damn impressive, but the interior kills it for me. There are too many swoopy angles and intersecting lines. The materials *look* rich (at least in pics), but from a design standpoint I prefer something less busy. The steering wheel especially is an eyesore IMO.

I think they did a much better job than the current one, but I get what you are saying. I really have to see this car in person, hopefully they'll let me get inside one at the LA auto show, which I plan on going to tomorrow. The current one was a real disappointment. All the car magazines praised it, but when I went to test drive it, I found it to have a lot of NVH issues. Sure it handled better than say a GS350, but the real killer was the interior. The fake wood in that car was a real joke. Especially when you are at a starting price of 45,800.

 

[akuma]

OK, there has been a lot of discussion about highlighting Genesis' flaws and triumphs. Some of you may even suffer from buyers remorse due mainly to a stiff or harsh ride. Some of you are so enamored with the Genesis that you are looking at other Hyundai/Kia models for future consideration.
While I agree the car is not perfect, (what car is really)?...and the suspension could use some fine tuning, when looking at the entry level luxury comparisons.
Criteria:
1.Entry level base models - $30-35k
2. Four Doors
3. Automatic
2009 Acura TL $34,955
2010 Acura TSX V6 $34,850
2010 Lexus ES 350 $34,800
2009 Mercedes C300 Luxury $34,650
2009 Volvo S60 2.5T AWD $34,600
2010 Lincoln MKZ FWD$34,115
2009 Infiniti G37 Sedan $33,700
2010 Lexus IS 250 $33,015
2010 Hyundai Genesis 3.8L $33,000
2009 Volkswagen CC Luxury $32,350
2010 Volvo S40 T5 R-Design$31,150
2010 Chrysler 300 Executive Series $31,045
2009 Audi A4 2.0 T Sedan FrontTrak Multitronic $31,450
2009 Nissan Maxima S$30,160

Have I missed any? After looking at this list, I would still say Genesis, comes out on top in terms of total package. My pic for second is G37. What do you think?

none of those cars are the "target" market for the Hyundai Genesis sedan. i would say that only the G37 sedan, Audi A4 Quattro premium and maybe the Acura TL SH-AWD (would sell so much better if it wasn't fugly) are credible competition, which goes to show you how good the Genesis is at its price point.

a better question is how would the 2011 Hyundai Sonata (or even the new Kia Amanti/K7/Cadenza) fair against that list of cars?

 

[jwaters943]

I think they did a much better job than the current one, but I get what you are saying. I really have to see this car in person, hopefully they'll let me get inside one at the LA auto show, which I plan on going to tomorrow. The current one was a real disappointment. All the car magazines praised it, but when I went to test drive it, I found it to have a lot of NVH issues. Sure it handled better than say a GS350, but the real killer was the interior. The fake wood in that car was a real joke. Especially when you are at a starting price of 45,800.

The current M has real wood. It's a thin vaneer glued to a plastic backing (just like most all new cars w/ wood trim), but it is very much real. I actually like that it isn't covered in glossy shellac like Lexus wood interiors.

 

[TJPark01]

none of those cars are the "target" market for the Hyundai Genesis sedan. i would say that only the G37 sedan, Audi A4 Quattro premium and maybe the Acura TL SH-AWD (would sell so much better if it wasn't fugly) are credible competition, which goes to show you how good the Genesis is at its price point.

a better question is how would the 2011 Hyundai Sonata (or even the new Kia Amanti/K7/Cadenza) fair against that list of cars?

According to John Krafcik, Hyundai North America CEO, the cross shop targets have been stated as Chrysler 300, Pontiac G8,Lexus ES & Cadillac CTS. The engineering benchmarks have been listed as Infiniti M, Lexus GS, E class and 5 series.That's what makes the car so compelling. What you get is versus what you pay.

 

[TJPark01]

The current M has real wood. It's a thin vaneer glued to a plastic backing (just like most all new cars w/ wood trim), but it is very much real. I actually like that it isn't covered in glossy shellac like Lexus wood interiors.

It looks and feels like plastic. I test drove one right when it came out, not sure if they have changed them, I believe they have done 1 refresh. Even then, the interior of the Genesis looks much better, even with fake wood. Looks better than the GS too.

 

[Sayantsi]

All good points. The M is definitely trying to capture the E and 5 series crowd, while Hyundai is not targeting those buyers per say, the car has proven to be worthy of comparison, simply on merit. There will be Merc & Bimmer people that would not even consider the Genesis simply because of the brand DNA, but may consider an Infiniti

Maybe its just me, but I think the Genesis looks a lot like the M with its soft curves and greenhouse lines.