Lexus LS500/Mark Levinson Reference

[jda8]

One of the most commonly compared luxury sedans to the G90 is the Lexus LS 500. I purchased my G90 for a whole host of reasons, the top two of which include the V8 and the absolutely amazing Lexicon audio system.

Today, I test drove a new Lexus LS 500 with the top-tier 2,400 watt, 23 speaker Mark Levinson Reference surround sound system which includes tweeters in the ceiling. Personally I think that the LS is gorgeous and a real eye catcher. It is one of the best looking luxury sedans on the road today. In test driving it, I expected to be amazed, but was surprisingly let down. The LS I drove cost $88,000, which is quite a bit higher than the most expensive G90, and did not include things like a head up display, power rear seats, or an adaptive suspension, like in the G90. Fully loaded, it would cost approximately $125,000.00.

It was a very nice car, no doubt. I’m not here to trash talk it. It accelerated, handled, and felt very similar to my G90. But I just simply wasn’t impressed. The controls were not intuitive and were confusing. That Lexus track pad thing that you must use to navigate the main screen and control the navigation system was finicky and annoying. To simply turn off the heated seat, I had to go through multiple menus and select the driver’s seat as the menu defaulted to the passenger seat. It was distracting and difficult to use while driving.

I then tested the Mark Levinson stereo. To my astonishment, it does not sound as good as my G90’s Lexicon system. The highs/fidelity/treble simply weren’t as clear and crisp as the Lexicon. I had the treble turned all the way up and the surround sound set on “3D.” I would never have known that it contained six additional speakers and over 1,000 additional watts. I simply was not all that impressed. I suppose that the point of this post is for me to illustrate that spending a whole bunch of extra money does not always get you a better car, and it solidifies how much I love and appreciate the G90 considering it costs thousands less. You seriously get a lot of car for the money with the G90. Go Genesis!

 

[DUKES103]

ALSO the ride of the G90 is smooth as silk it literally floats like the old Lexus LS 430. The Lexus has a harsher ride and one can feel the road to much. Give me a G90 anytime.

 

[leggy]

The other day I sat inside LS500 and it felt crampy for me specially the back sit after I adjusted the driver seat the I way I feel comfortable so I scratched it off my list.
I am too pretty much certain that the G90 is best bang for the buck full size luxury sedan.

 

[jda8]

The other day I sat inside LS500 and it felt crampy for me specially the back sit after I adjusted the driver seat the I way I feel comfortable so I scratched it off my list.
I am too pretty much certain that the G90 is best bang for the buck full size luxury sedan.

The back seat leg room in the LS was definitely smaller than my G90. The car felt smaller overall.

 

[Backslack]

The new LS is pretty much LS in name only. It pales compared to its brethren of yore and is a betrayal of what the car stood for for decades. It's no surprise so many members from Club Lexus are choosing the G90 over the new LS, or hunting down used LS 460s. The worst part is that amount of space in it is nothing short of pathetic: 99 cubic feet- the same as a Camry. For a car that's 206 inches long in the executive flagship limo class of vehicles, that's inexcusable.

I'm under the impression that Lexus wanted something more like the Jaguar XJ, Porsche Panamera, or that new BMW 8-Series Gran Coupe- grand touring driver's cars with a more sporty character and that swoopy coupe-like behind. Unfortunately, at 5000 pounds and with that idiotic 10-speed transmission, there's not much it can do to be sporty, other than giving you all the negative attributes associated with sportier cars like a bumpier ride. And the worst part was ditching that gorgeously refined V8 (which is now also in the LC) in favor of a laggy twin turbo v6.

Here's the funny thing- the LS is (shockingly) currently deemed the least reliable car in its segment on Consumer Reports. Obviously well below Lexus standards. Sad how the mighty have fallen, though it makes sense if Lexus wanted to benchmark the Jaguar XJ.

 

[MrMegadeth]

One reason I just can't ever take Lexus serious is that damn infotainment. I cannot use it for the life of me.

My parents have had them for years and I cannot find ANYTHING in there. Plus, the stupid mouse thing is soooo damn hard to use while driving.

In fact, my parents won't even use the navi because they cant AND then because Lexus didn't have CarPlay or AA they have to hold their phone while driving.

 

[leggy]

One reason I just can't ever take Lexus serious is that damn infotainment. I cannot use it for the life of me.

My parents have had them for years and I cannot find ANYTHING in there. Plus, the stupid mouse thing is soooo damn hard to use while driving.

In fact, my parents won't even use the navi because they cant AND then because Lexus didn't have CarPlay or AA they have to hold their phone while driving.

Time to get rid of the Lexus and move to Genesis.
Which year and model do they have?

 

[MrMegadeth]

2018 IS350

Mom wants an SUV, not sure the GV80 will be out soon enough, plus the whole issue with the crappy service at the local dealers turns her off.

I mean, really, if the valet/service culture is important to you you aren't gonna do better than Lexus....especially at a Hyundai dealership. C'est la vie.

 

[edward301]

Interesting I just test drove several Lexus models, they just don’t have
it anymore. There was an article in our paper a few weeks ago, their
sales are down over 5%, and now I know why.

 

[Takeshi]

Genesis does way better at value overall : especially lower end of more compact cars market. However just cause there is value does not mean it is more refined or better.

Just an FYI as of 2018 + Lexus LS and IS models have apple car play and can be retrofitted to 2018 / 2019 models.

Lexus LS 500 > Genesis G90 5.0 or 3.3T 100%

Pros:

• 10 Speed > 8 Speed : Lexus is smoother, faster, and more reliable.
• Massage > No Massage
• Mark Levinson 3D is Miles ahead of Lexicon.
  • Wider Sound Stage
  • Clear Vocals
  • No Distortion at ALL even at extremely High Volumes
• Driving Dynamics The LS Moves better through the corner then the G90 due to the dynamic air suspension
• Softer Almost Mercedes Like Ride : The Air suspension makes it more cloud like the G90
• Acceleration : LS 500 is just faster horsepower for horsepower
• MPG by a lot : LS 500 is just way more Efficient gallon for gallon
• BackSeat Controls and Massage.
• You can extend the backseat out with a thigh pad extension.
• Interior Design : Use of More Refined Wood , Quality Leather Pattern and Dash / Design Theme Structure
• Exterior Design : Tastefully done better then 2017-2019 G90 : 2020 G90 is on par

Cons :

• Price : 95k For Fully Loaded with Rear Seat Package and ML 3D vs 70k Fully Loaded [115k max due to a 25k package that adds Aesthetics of Hand Woven Cloth , and Japanese Kiriko Glass to replace Wood and Leather Trims on the door]
• Trackpad Infotainment : You looking for a Car Crash with Fingers

Lexus GS F > Genesis G80 Sport 3.3T 50%

Pros:

• Driving Dynamics & Handling
• Acceleration
• Interior Design
• Exterior Design
• Mark Levinson

Cons:

• Lack of Car Play
• Infotainment Engineers : What to make the trackpad worse? Oh Let's add a moving pad for drivers to move.
• Price $85,000 new?
• Rear wheel drive only.

Genesis G70 3.3T/2.0T > IS F/350 100%

Pros :

• Acceleration
• Driving Dynamics & Handling
• Exterior Design
• Interior Design
• Interior use of Quilted Nappa Leather
• Simple Infotainment System
• Better Tuned 8 Speed Transmission
• Price Value

Cons:

• Smallest Rear seat room and trunk i've ever seen for a compact sedan.
• Lexicon in G70 is half assed and Mediocre compared to Lexicon in G80 / G90

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[Backslack]

Takeshi, your argument would be better made if your points were more elaborate than a copy-paste of a Lexus sales brochure. Not really the best first impression for your first post on the board. You also make a lot of false statements- immediately noticeable the moment you mention the 10-speed being "more reliable" when it's actually listed as one of the main problems of the LS on Consumer Reports. It's widely known that more gears generally results in more problems- go ask Honda about their 10-speed as well.


Given your Japanese username, I can safely assume that you hold more than a couple biases towards Lexus- and I say this as someone who owns a Lexus GS 350.

 

[leggy]

He or she probably works for Lexus

Takeshi, you forgot to add one of the most important thing, LS500 sitting is smaller than G90 specially the back seats.

 

[Takeshi]

They're facts from a Brochure and that in itself is up for thoughts and tea. Not really the best first response either on sight. A lot of false? I see one cherry picked where are the others? The transmission is the least problematic compared to everything else on CR. If we're going by that might as well mention Lexus has a more reliable and better engine : Genesis Seals Already has recalls. It's widely known yes until you set drive in the car. Indeed Honda learned quickly in 2018 Models and acted in 2019. Judging from your reaction you must jump the gun awfully quickly whenever something isn't aided towards your viewpoints. Rather than rationalizing we can all be fanboys but hey that's the reason why we post on forums? FYI I don't own a Lexus and probably won't own one. I am giving facts on Brochures and subjective points of bullets after setting Foot in them. To each their own taste.

Takeshi, your argument would be better made if your points were more elaborate than a copy-paste of a Lexus sales brochure. Not really the best first impression for your first post on the board. You also make a lot of false statements- immediately noticeable the moment you mention the 10-speed being "more reliable" when it's actually listed as one of the main problems of the LS on Consumer Reports. It's widely known that more gears generally results in more problems- go ask Honda about their 10-speed as well.

View attachment 26552
Given your Japanese username, I can safely assume that you hold more than a couple biases towards Lexus- and I say this as someone who owns a Lexus GS 350.

I doubt I'll ever be that conservative. I totally agree the LS500 has smaller rear seat room then the G90. Although the rear passenger gets the "Executive Lounge Mode" in the back with a glorious fold out couch Leg/Ankle Pad Support .

He or she probably works for Lexus

Takeshi, you forgot to add one of the most important thing, LS500 sitting is smaller than G90 specially the back seats.

 

[Backslack]

3rd post on the entire site and you're already calling people "fanboys"- you're really trying your hardest to not leave a positive first impression, aren't you?

The problem with your brochure copy-paste is that it's incomplete, and written with corporate language based on mostly subjective nonsense (i.e. "Use of More Refined Wood , Quality Leather Pattern and Dash / Design Theme Structure") that makes you sound like a robot without any valid points. Add that to it being your first post on this board, and all your subsequent posts being outright insulting (calling the members here "ding-dongs" in your second post, and calling us "fanboys" in your third)- it's hard to take you seriously. If anything, it would be quite easy to label you as a troll. But you know what, I'll bite.

Your praise of the LS's air suspension fails to mention that it still has a much firmer ride than the G90, not helped by the fact that it uses run-flat tires. The suspension itself was also regarded as being too stiff by Lexus- so they had to revise it for either the 2019 or 2020 LS. You also neglect to mention that the G90 can be equipped with a V8, which is more powerful than the LS's turbo-6. As for the Genesis 3.3TT being less reliable? You seem to have neglected the recent Toyota recall for 700,000 of their vehicles for failing fuel pumps- among which the LS500 is one of them.

Toyota, Lexus recall nearly 700K vehicles to fix faulty fuel pumps

This is the type of attitude and deception that makes it difficult to take you seriously. Fix your attitude and drop the insults, and then we'll talk.

 

[Takeshi]

Think what you want. I am totally a fan boy and subjectively biased from my experience as well.

3rd post on the entire site and you're already calling people "fanboys"- you're really trying your hardest to not leave a positive first impression, aren't you?

To everyone their own use of terminology and ideology. Have you went inside the new LS 500 and G90 , touched the wood, seen the finish, seen the articulate fit and and flowing lines of both. From my observations the Lexus articulated an instrument in which they made a gradual flowing theme through a car. The G90 has good finish but there is nowhere near the attention to detail to theme and articulation inside the G90

The problem with your brochure copy-paste is that it's incomplete, and written with corporate language based on mostly subjective nonsense (i.e. "Use of More Refined Wood , Quality Leather Pattern and Dash / Design Theme Structure") that makes you sound like a robot without any valid points.

After driving both for my back and butt the Lexus is softer subjectively it's near Mercedes Level soft. The G90 is harder on my back and butt. Guess I tried the 2019 version which makes more sense now. I did mention the V8 "

Lexus LS 500 > Genesis G90 5.0 or 3.3T 100%

"
Obviously the Lexus is better overall 414/442 (HP/ IB-FT) vs 420/383 (HP/ IB-FT) which is not more powerful overall [+6 HP / - 59 IB-FT] and less efficient with less acceleration. Great they fixed them just line Genesis, Manufacture who take early action on there issues shows attention to customer and over product reliability. Given Lexus Track Record they hold they're on top of their game to ensure future Reliability.

Your praise of the LS's air suspension fails to mention that it still has a much firmer ride than the G90, not helped by the fact that it uses run-flat tires. The suspension itself was also regarded as being too stiff by Lexus- so they had to revise it for either the 2019 or 2020 LS. You also neglect to mention that the G90 can be equipped with a V8, which is more powerful than the LS's turbo-6. As for the Genesis 3.3TT being less reliable? You seem to have neglected the recent Toyota recall for 700,000 of their vehicles for failing fuel pumps- among which the LS500 is one of them.

Toyota, Lexus recall nearly 700K vehicles to fix faulty fuel pumps

Ahh subjective Cherry picked Bias again. Would I troll bother replying with materials or paste objectified documents? It's okay I'll take the bite and I'll take the teeth's out too.

Add that to it being your first post on this board, and all your subsequent posts being outright insulting (calling the members here "ding-dongs" in your second post, and calling us "fanboys" in your third)- it's hard to take you seriously. If anything, it would be quite easy to label you as a troll. But you know what, I'll bite.

Your subjectivity to attitude, great to hear everyone has their own. I have no reason to address the prideful. Guess replying with subjective and objective facts can't be considered talking. Oh well, onwards to the next debate.

This is the type of attitude and deception that makes it difficult to take you seriously. Fix your attitude and drop the insults, and then we'll talk

 

[Backslack]

Guess replying with subjective and objective facts can't be considered talking. Oh well, onwards to the next debate.

Spewing nonsense like "Use of More Refined Wood , Quality Leather Pattern and Dash / Design Theme Structure" is not "subjective and objective facts"- it is corporate speak from a brochure. Morever, the way you've brushed aside my points (like the LS engine recall) makes it quite evident to me that you aren't interested in discussion. If you want to troll, go do so somewhere else.

Since you willingly admit that you are "subjectively biased", I think we already know what brand you prefer.

 

[leggy]

I doubt I'll ever be that conservative. I totally agree the LS500 has smaller rear seat room then the G90. Although the rear passenger gets the "Executive Lounge Mode" in the back with a glorious fold out couch Leg/Ankle Pad Support .
View attachment 26559

And how much the car price will be after adding all these options?

 

[Takeshi]

95k with those seat options . It was mentioned above as one of Con's of the LS 500 .

And how much the car price will be after adding all these options?

 

[Takeshi]

Who gave you authority and rights to exaggerate and fabricate my writing as brochure as what I post is my own expression. Deprecating other opinions and points due to personal bias and agenda is disgusting.

Spewing nonsense like "Use of More Refined Wood , Quality Leather Pattern and Dash / Design Theme Structure" is not "subjective and objective facts"- it is corporate speak from a brochure.

Yeah totally wrote an entire paragraph on the engine and gave response to Lexus history of known reliability and per-emptive action which was apparently brushed. Did I ever say the 3.3T or 5.0 was bad nope. Hyundai / Kia / Genesis has made a name to improve quality in the modern age. Cherry picking one point for preference. I will indeed communicate with others who have the desire to hold with none of the personal prejudice.

Morever, the way you've brushed aside my points (like the LS engine recall) makes it quite evident to me that you aren't interested in discussion. If you want to troll, go do so somewhere else.

Yeah totally on the band wagon. Too Subjectivity GV80 is good, LS 500 is good. G90 is good.

Since you willingly admit that you are "subjectively biased", I think we already know what brand you prefer.

 

[leggy]

95k with those seat options . It was mentioned above as one of Con's of the LS 500 .

I just built one AWD, HUD with executive package and the cost is 106k