Resolution to flutter at 25-30 mph

[picubob]

htrac as well

 

[genawd16]

Unless the transfer case was about to seize up, replacing it would have no effect on shifting or acceleration.

Don't know what condition it was in. Had to google what a transfer case was when they told me it needed to be replaced. But I do know how the car drove before and how it's driving now. Doesn't mean that's what made the difference. Just that there is a difference.

 

[genawd16]

htrac as well

I thought it was just HTRAC as well so I asked the advisor at the dealership that replaced the driveshaft, and he said they've had both. But seems like it's mostly the HTRAC ones that are having the issue from reading online.

If I had to do it over again, I might just live with the noise because the vibration started after the driveshaft was replaced. Maybe the driveshaft would have gone out on its own if not replaced, but it was definitely a questionable trade-off for me.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

Don't know what condition it was in. Had to google what a transfer case was when they told me it needed to be replaced. But I do know how the car drove before and how it's driving now. Doesn't mean that's what made the difference. Just that there is a difference.

Well it is a major component of the drive train, so if the transfer case was causing drag because it was bad a new one would feel much better . If I am not mistaken those transfer cases hold very little oil, possibly burned up? Anyhow having a vehicle that is 100% is a good feeling.

 

[genawd16]

Well it is a major component of the drive train, so if the transfer case was causing drag because it was bad a new one would feel much better . If I am not mistaken those transfer cases hold very little oil, possibly burned up? Anyhow having a vehicle that is 100% is a good feeling.

Still not 100% but maybe like 87%. lol Probably juuuust good enough for me to put up with it for now.

What was kind of surprising is that the transfer case replacement cost more than the transmission replacement. My receipt doesn't show cost, but looking at their copy when signing, it showed $6700. If I recall correctly, the transmission was around $4500 (my receipt show it was a "reman" transmission, which itself was kind of surprising that they didn't put in a brand new one).

Plus, they replaced the transmission last month (200 miles ago) and test drove saying it was all good to go. 200 miles later, I took it back and they test drove to find the transfer case needed to be replaced. I think a lot of it is just guess work replacing parts. But still glad they are actually making an effort to replace them, rather than just saying "can't duplicate" or "working as designed".

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

Still not 100% but maybe like 87%. lol Probably juuuust good enough for me to put up with it for now.

What was kind of surprising is that the transfer case replacement cost more than the transmission replacement. My receipt doesn't show cost, but looking at their copy when signing, it showed $6700. If I recall correctly, the transmission was around $4500 (my receipt show it was a "reman" transmission, which itself was kind of surprising that they didn't put in a brand new one).

Plus, they replaced the transmission last month (200 miles ago) and test drove saying it was all good to go. 200 miles later, I took it back and they test drove to find the transfer case needed to be replaced. I think a lot of it is just guess work replacing parts. But still glad they are actually making an effort to replace them, rather than just saying "can't duplicate" or "working as designed".

I agree 100% . I think the cars are advancing quicker than alot of the techs that work on them are.

 

[arcman]

I'm blown away your dealer would make the call on replacing the trans and then basically admit ("Well, Shucks... that wasn't the problem") and then get Hyundai to replace the transfer case. That's a whole lot of Hyundai money down the drain and it sounds like it still isn't completely fixed.

What the hell is going on with Hyundai? They have to know what is causing this. Sounds like every other car has this problem. Most likely it's too expensive to do some kind of recall and fix all cars (kinda like the creaking sunroof deal).

Since my car has a salvage title, there's nothing I can do in this situation (other than throwing parts at it), so I've resigned to living with the noise. Anyone here want to step up and start a class action suit?

 

[osnv]

I'm blown away your dealer would make the call on replacing the trans and then basically admit ("Well, Shucks... that wasn't the problem") and then get Hyundai to replace the transfer case. That's a whole lot of Hyundai money down the drain and it sounds like it still isn't completely fixed.

What the hell is going on with Hyundai? They have to know what is causing this. Sounds like every other car has this problem. Most likely it's too expensive to do some kind of recall and fix all cars (kinda like the creaking sunroof deal).

Since my car has a salvage title, there's nothing I can do in this situation (other than throwing parts at it), so I've resigned to living with the noise. Anyone here want to step up and start a class action suit?

The creaking sunroof was fixed by the TSB. Hyundai does not know what causes the vibration and blame it on tires. Until they have a fix, a recall is not possible

 

[genawd16]

I'm blown away your dealer would make the call on replacing the trans and then basically admit ("Well, Shucks... that wasn't the problem") and then get Hyundai to replace the transfer case. That's a whole lot of Hyundai money down the drain and it sounds like it still isn't completely fixed.

What the hell is going on with Hyundai? They have to know what is causing this. Sounds like every other car has this problem. Most likely it's too expensive to do some kind of recall and fix all cars (kinda like the creaking sunroof deal).

Since my car has a salvage title, there's nothing I can do in this situation (other than throwing parts at it), so I've resigned to living with the noise. Anyone here want to step up and start a class action suit?

The transmission was also to address the delayed shifting, which it did fix. But yea, I can't complain about their effort in trying to address the issues; probably some of the best I've ever experienced even compared to german marques, at least at this 3rd dealer. And I'm surprised by how much money has been spent on warranty repairs (also had to replace driver side airbag module); if they had offered me that amount as incentive to get out of it, I would have jumped at it! lol

Although, it has been reduced significantly from whatever might have helped during the transfer case replacement, it doesn't seem like they really know what's going on. Even now, I think they know it's not 100% fixed; it was supposed to be back Monday, but they kept it until Tuesday (same thing happened with the trans svc visit). Probably replaced the part then test drove and saw that it wasn't completely fixed. Really weird and disappointing. If I take it back again, they will probably replace something else. Just hoping things stay this way where I don't have to bother with it anymore.

If it's just making the noise without any other noticeable issues, I think it's best to just live with it in hindsight.

On the bright side, I get literally zero noise from the sunroof for what that's worth. lol

 

[BillZ]

Hi BillZ, yours is a good guess but I have to disagree. The thumpity thump from flat spots on tires was very common when nylon-belted radial tires (as opposed to bias ply tires) first came out - early fifties here in USA. The nylon belts (or nylon under-steel belts) would develop flat spots after sitting a while (like overnight) and thumpity thump down the road we would go until they warmed up. Once nylon belted tires were replaced with Dacron (polyester) belted tires the overnight flat spots and their thumping virtually disappeared. I have not driven a car with that problem since about 1975. The problem with my Genesis is definitely not tires.
The vibration I am experiencing is a thrumming, not a thumping - way more so (higher frequency, could be called a buzz) than the old flat spotted tires. However I am still puzzled that the vibration goes away after 2 or 3 miles of driving or, of course, what the H is causing it. Thanks for responding.
Full disclosure: I am an 87 year old (long retired) electro-mechanical design engineer who raced (and tuned, and repaired) MGs, Jags and my '38 Ford rod WAY back in my twenties.

If you go back to posts describing the flat-spotting problems that were ubiquitous with the 2015 Genesis equipped with the Hankooks, you'll see that flat-spotting was still alive and well in the Genesis and a major reason that Hyundai offered the free tire replacement for everyone in the first two years of ownership. It may not be your problem, but it sure didn't disappear in all tires or cars in the seventies. The following is a quote from an article written in 2012:

Have you ever noticed a minor vibration that appears to go away in about five minutes of driving, only to appear the next morning? What you're experiencing is a phenomenon called flatspotting. The tire develops a "square" side because of the weight of the vehicle resting on the tire. Tires are more apt to flatspot during colder weather, therefore drivers in the Snowbelt will begin to notice this in the fall. Higher speed rated tires are more likely to flatspot because they use a cap of nylon or polyamide that's between the steel belts and tire tread to reinforce the tire so it can survive the high-speed test.

As the tire warms up it becomes "round" again, causing the vibration to go away. It's particularly annoying for drivers that have short commutes because their tires never get a chance to lose the vibration.

Flatspotting can occur on any vehicle but it's often masked so it's unnoticeable. Every once in awhile it can show up in new versions of an existing model. For example, when Acura launched the 2004 Acura TL, most TLs were equipped with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 (not to be confused with the Turanza Serenity and its replacement the Turanza Serenity Plus) and many drivers experienced flatspotting on their vehicle.

How do you go about solving this issue? Many drivers experience much less or no flatspotting by switching to a tire that uses a polyamide cap instead of a nylon cap because nylon tends to have a memory effect.

If you're looking for tires that are more resistant to flatspotting, try to pick an option with a polyamide cap instead of nylon. Many manufacturers, such as Michelin have begun to use polyamide more.

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[TinsleyC]

But if the car is driven every few days, or more often (daily), how could there be flatspots on the tires?

Are folks that are getting the flutter only driving their cars once every few weeks, or less often?

 

[genawd16]

But if the car is driven every few days, or more often (daily), how could there be flatspots on the tires?

Are folks that are getting the flutter only driving their cars once every few weeks, or less often?

I drive it daily. I don't know about others, but for my car, it isn't the tires. Plus the dealers have not mentioned that it could be due to flat spotting on tires, and quite frankly, I would find it insulting if they even tried to tell me that. All the new cars that are sitting on their lots would all have such issues since those cars most definitely aren't being driven daily, and could sit for significant length of time, especially on Genesis cars which aren't the fastest movers.

It was doing it with the old Mich, and it is doing it with the new Conti. The work that was performed during last visit did significantly help with the shudder without anything being done with the tires. They had the car for 12 days so it probably sat for awhile (increasing chance for flatspotting) but the vibration had been reduced on my drive back. And just from a common sense perspective, the problem is specifically within a certain very limited speed range.

 

[ewang]

Mine does it both with summer and winter tires.... not the tires

 

[osnv]

I drive it daily. I don't know about others, but for my car, it isn't the tires. Plus the dealers have not mentioned that it could be due to flat spotting on tires, and quite frankly, I would find it insulting if they even tried to tell me that. All the new cars that are sitting on their lots would all have such issues since those cars most definitely aren't being driven daily, and could sit for significant length of time, especially on Genesis cars which aren't the fastest movers.

It was doing it with the old Mich, and it is doing it with the new Conti. The work that was performed during last visit did significantly help with the shudder without anything being done with the tires. They had the car for 12 days so it probably sat for awhile (increasing chance for flatspotting) but the vibration had been reduced on my drive back. And just from a common sense perspective, the problem is specifically within a certain very limited speed range.

Yes, the mystery lives on... As insulting as you feel it may be for the dealer to blame the tires, I had two dealerships and the Hyundai field rep claiming the tires may contribute to the vibration. They flew the field rep from Atlanta to Maryland to look at my car after the driveshaft and the transfer case were replaced and the vibration between 28 and 34 Mph did not go away. He spent a day with the car and blamed it on tires. Two weeks ago, another dealership replaced a rear driveshaft hoping to fix the vibration and pointed at the tires again since the vibration did not go away. They also sent that info to the corporate Hyundai which now also claims that the tires cause vibration and refuses to admit that anything is wrong with the car.
So, I bit a bullet and put 4 brand new tires on the car today. Perfectly smooth ride home. The car was sitting in the garage for about 4 hours and then I went for a ride. Surprisingly, the vibration was still there and disappeared after 15 minutes. I am going to the same dealership tomorrow morning to shove this information into their face and see what kind of excuse they will come up this time. BTW, I put on Vredestein's Quatrac Pro tires with polyamide reinforcement to minimize any possible flatspotting replacing Michelin Primacy, and yet in 4 hours of the car not being used the vibration came back... Unfortunately, nobody knows what the problem is and they look at tires flatspotting as the most logical explanation. There are multiple threads about this issue, people replaced all transmission components and that did not change a thing. We'll see how it goes tomorrow with the dealer and if they would have a nerve to point at the brand new set of tires...

 

[TinsleyC]

Amazing report!

Can I offer an idea? Not sure if you have a floor jack and some jack stands, but if you did, you could put the car on jack stands and make sure all four tires are off the ground. Document the time with a photograph of the car. Wait however much time you think you need to wait. Lower the car and go for a drive - if there is any judder it's not flat spots on the tires! I don't think it is, anyway.

 

[arcman]

I"m gonna go one better... I've been thinking about putting the car up on stands, removing the wheels and running it up to 29mph after it's cold. I'll bet money it still makes the noise. I haven't done this yet because I haven't picked up the parts to do the drain pan banjo bolt hose mod. If I get real energetic, I'll put some mics in and around the trans/transfer case. Next week. I'll get back.

 

[TinsleyC]

That's a great idea... actually all you need to do is raise the rear end. Leave the wheels on. Just be careful.

It may not happen without a load on the drivetrain.

 

[arcman]

Mine's AWD. Drag brakes.

 

[skipgen]

Yes, the mystery lives on... As insulting as you feel it may be for the dealer to blame the tires, I had two dealerships and the Hyundai field rep claiming the tires may contribute to the vibration. They flew the field rep from Atlanta to Maryland to look at my car after the driveshaft and the transfer case were replaced and the vibration between 28 and 34 Mph did not go away. He spent a day with the car and blamed it on tires. Two weeks ago, another dealership replaced a rear driveshaft hoping to fix the vibration and pointed at the tires again since the vibration did not go away. They also sent that info to the corporate Hyundai which now also claims that the tires cause vibration and refuses to admit that anything is wrong with the car.
So, I bit a bullet and put 4 brand new tires on the car today. Perfectly smooth ride home. The car was sitting in the garage for about 4 hours and then I went for a ride. Surprisingly, the vibration was still there and disappeared after 15 minutes. I am going to the same dealership tomorrow morning to shove this information into their face and see what kind of excuse they will come up this time. BTW, I put on Vredestein's Quatrac Pro tires with polyamide reinforcement to minimize any possible flatspotting replacing Michelin Primacy, and yet in 4 hours of the car not being used the vibration came back... Unfortunately, nobody knows what the problem is and they look at tires flatspotting as the most logical explanation. There are multiple threads about this issue, people replaced all transmission components and that did not change a thing. We'll see how it goes tomorrow with the dealer and if they would have a nerve to point at the brand new set of tires...

Not to highjack the thread or anything - but how do you like those Vredesteins? I was thinking about picking some up after I read the test on 'em on Tire Rack....

 

[osnv]

Not to highjack the thread or anything - but how do you like those Vredesteins? I was thinking about picking some up after I read the test on 'em on Tire Rack....

They are excellent. Good grip, silent and comfortable. Much better than my previous Michelin Primacy. It's a pity they did not fix the problem that frankly, appears to be non-fixable